Overtaking practice
Discussion
Your comments on the following clip would (probably) be appreciated - am I getting close to how it should be done?
I'd like to point out that when passing the side road at 1min 50s I did have a good look for joining traffic - should I have held back anyway? Is it ever OK to overtake when passing turnings and entrances?
Cheers
Overtaking Video
I'd like to point out that when passing the side road at 1min 50s I did have a good look for joining traffic - should I have held back anyway? Is it ever OK to overtake when passing turnings and entrances?
Cheers
Overtaking Video
Only had a quick look (& quality of video not great).
Looked like very poor lateral & depth of vision into the entrance on the right when you overtook the red & white cars at about 1:53. Couldn't be sure a vehicle wouldn't emerge when you committed.
Looked like very poor lateral & depth of vision into the entrance on the right when you overtook the red & white cars at about 1:53. Couldn't be sure a vehicle wouldn't emerge when you committed.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 3rd March 01:06
I hope I would have held back. As Von says, there was very little vision into the junction on the right at 1.50ish. Also, you then ended up quite close to the black(?) 4x4 and having to work quite hard to recover a view to make further progress away from the red & white cars you'd just overtaken.
That said, I thought the first overtake on the video was lovely. And I admire your bravery in asking for feedback here. :-)
That said, I thought the first overtake on the video was lovely. And I admire your bravery in asking for feedback here. :-)
Vaux said:
The direction sign prior didn't have it as a junction - I thought it looked like a farm entrance?
It indeed looked like a farm entrance, but it was visible & from the video it didn't look there was sufficient vision to determine whether it was going to become active during the course of the overtake. The buildings set back on the right should have been ringing the alarm bells of the potential.
Signed or not, you shouldn't be going where you can't see sufficiently.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 3rd March 12:12
Let's not be too harsh here - you've asked "am I getting close to how it should be done?"
The answer is yes - a lot closer than some people ever get.
You've demonstrated an ability to hold a nice following position towards the start of the clip, when you were behind the white Landrover, and you're obviously aware that moving the car around sideways will improve your view. Having said that, you'd have been better moving in to the nearside just before you overtook it, as that will give you a better view on a right-hand bend.
The following position suffered towards the end of the clip, and you ended up too close to the black 4X4, and, conversely, if you'd have moved nearside as you passed that farm entrance on a left-hand bend, instead of offside, you'd have obtained a better view.
You demonstrated nice acceleration sense during the overtakes, holding the more flexible gear and decelerating into your gaps with a minimum of braking. This is something I've regularly struggled to get students to do after 4 weeks training, and I was impressed. I also like some courtesy when driving, so kudos for the hand signal.
The overtake which seems to be generating the most criticism is the one where you pass a red and a white car. If I'd have been there, I'd have done almost everything the same - following position was fine and the move sideways was done without acceleration, but that's where you should have paused and held your position. The junction to the right did have a limited view into it, and it was incorrect to have been alongside the red car at that point. If you'd just delayed the acceleration phase for a couple of seconds, and gone after the junction, it would have been fine.
So, to summarise - keep practising your following position and don't get "sucked" into getting too close as your view will suffer. From the following position, move nearside on right hand bends to improve your view and offside on left-handers (looking up the nearside), and be wary of offside junctions.
Overall though, more good stuff than bad. Keep it up!
The answer is yes - a lot closer than some people ever get.
You've demonstrated an ability to hold a nice following position towards the start of the clip, when you were behind the white Landrover, and you're obviously aware that moving the car around sideways will improve your view. Having said that, you'd have been better moving in to the nearside just before you overtook it, as that will give you a better view on a right-hand bend.
The following position suffered towards the end of the clip, and you ended up too close to the black 4X4, and, conversely, if you'd have moved nearside as you passed that farm entrance on a left-hand bend, instead of offside, you'd have obtained a better view.
You demonstrated nice acceleration sense during the overtakes, holding the more flexible gear and decelerating into your gaps with a minimum of braking. This is something I've regularly struggled to get students to do after 4 weeks training, and I was impressed. I also like some courtesy when driving, so kudos for the hand signal.
The overtake which seems to be generating the most criticism is the one where you pass a red and a white car. If I'd have been there, I'd have done almost everything the same - following position was fine and the move sideways was done without acceleration, but that's where you should have paused and held your position. The junction to the right did have a limited view into it, and it was incorrect to have been alongside the red car at that point. If you'd just delayed the acceleration phase for a couple of seconds, and gone after the junction, it would have been fine.
So, to summarise - keep practising your following position and don't get "sucked" into getting too close as your view will suffer. From the following position, move nearside on right hand bends to improve your view and offside on left-handers (looking up the nearside), and be wary of offside junctions.
Overall though, more good stuff than bad. Keep it up!
I'm not an advanced driver so don't know if my comments are welcome, but...
I didn't like the overtake at the junction, apart from being illegal (I believe) and likely to antagonise other drivers, from the film which isn't great quality it looked like the red car blocked the view of the junction, and then it turned out there was a farm entrance opposite, so just too much to look out for, I reckon.
I also thought you got too close to the 4x4 and should have held well back and taken a look up the inside (left) early on.
Other than that nice overtaking. I reckon the mentalists would also have got excited about the overtake on the hatch but hardly any of them know the law regarding them.
Nice queue set up by the horsebox, but the film is a great example of how the queue is actually made by those not overtaking when there was clearly opportunies to do so.
Nice idea to post this as well. I enjoy discussing aspects of safer driving, so long as it doesn't get too anal and critical.
I didn't like the overtake at the junction, apart from being illegal (I believe) and likely to antagonise other drivers, from the film which isn't great quality it looked like the red car blocked the view of the junction, and then it turned out there was a farm entrance opposite, so just too much to look out for, I reckon.
I also thought you got too close to the 4x4 and should have held well back and taken a look up the inside (left) early on.
Other than that nice overtaking. I reckon the mentalists would also have got excited about the overtake on the hatch but hardly any of them know the law regarding them.
Nice queue set up by the horsebox, but the film is a great example of how the queue is actually made by those not overtaking when there was clearly opportunies to do so.
Nice idea to post this as well. I enjoy discussing aspects of safer driving, so long as it doesn't get too anal and critical.
An interesting first overtake, in my opinion you could have done with holding back and not begining your overtake in the right turn lane. I would have started it on or after the cheveron area, taking into account whether or not the cheveron area is boardered with a solid white line. After pasisng the junction on your right in which there is a red car waiting to perform a manouvre your view could have been enhanced by a look down the nearside of the vehicle ahead.
Following position on the black Shogun could have been slightly further back the closer you are the less you can see. Be aware of what looked like a residential property on your off side. Anticiapte hazzards and build then into your driving plan.
I drive thinking of a number of scenarios that can happen, and generally one will.
Very nice double overtake holding your position on the offside. I see the road bears slightly round to left, again take a look down the nearside for hazards and entering into the 50 MPH zone at the limit.
In answer yes it is getting there, just be aware, plan and anticipate hazzards.
Following position on the black Shogun could have been slightly further back the closer you are the less you can see. Be aware of what looked like a residential property on your off side. Anticiapte hazzards and build then into your driving plan.
I drive thinking of a number of scenarios that can happen, and generally one will.
Very nice double overtake holding your position on the offside. I see the road bears slightly round to left, again take a look down the nearside for hazards and entering into the 50 MPH zone at the limit.
In answer yes it is getting there, just be aware, plan and anticipate hazzards.
Well thanks for the comments - my apologies that Google Video seems to have squeezed a lot of the information out of the clip.
I posted this because I wasn't sure I'd handled it correctly. Having videoed it I had the opportunity to sit down and think about it - many times I've wondered about decisions I've made and had no way of knowing if I was right or not.
I agree that the farm entrance on the right at 1min50s is a problem - I suspect I was thinking too much about the side road to give it sufficient caution. I like Mr. Local's suggestion of holding the offside position without accelerating and then going - duly noted and filed away for next time.
With regard to the following position on the black 4x4, this is highlights something I've never been too sure about - the 'Contact Position'. I would have said that for the time I was following it I was in a contact rather than following position. The mounting of the video camera in the centre of the car also doesn't show the view down the offside that I had. Having said that, I conceed that for the whole time I was behind it I couldn't see up the nearside - potentially a real issue.
Following on from a previous thread about being able to read other drivers' minds from the movements of their car, see if you can spot the moment I get vision into the distance and decide to take the 7th car too - it's not my smoothest ever transition.
I posted this because I wasn't sure I'd handled it correctly. Having videoed it I had the opportunity to sit down and think about it - many times I've wondered about decisions I've made and had no way of knowing if I was right or not.
I agree that the farm entrance on the right at 1min50s is a problem - I suspect I was thinking too much about the side road to give it sufficient caution. I like Mr. Local's suggestion of holding the offside position without accelerating and then going - duly noted and filed away for next time.
With regard to the following position on the black 4x4, this is highlights something I've never been too sure about - the 'Contact Position'. I would have said that for the time I was following it I was in a contact rather than following position. The mounting of the video camera in the centre of the car also doesn't show the view down the offside that I had. Having said that, I conceed that for the whole time I was behind it I couldn't see up the nearside - potentially a real issue.
Following on from a previous thread about being able to read other drivers' minds from the movements of their car, see if you can spot the moment I get vision into the distance and decide to take the 7th car too - it's not my smoothest ever transition.
heebeegeetee said:
I didn't like the overtake at the junction, apart from being illegal (I believe) and likely to antagonise other drivers
I don't think that was illegal, but it didn't allow for the landie or car in front of it to go out into the turn right lane. Overtakes in those junctions are fine with a view and once the other vehicles are committed to not killing you.
OP, good for you for posting up the video and thinking through the overtake. I've been out practising mine this weekend.
I'd add to the comments above that that when you are in contact, but in a place where you definitely aren't going past, it's a great time to be scanning the fields, horizon etc to see where the next overtake is coming from. And to breathe. A big sigh was audible at one point. Breathing is good.
Good luck.
Leaving aside the legalities and technicalities, I've a couple of questions. Obviously this was an exercise, so please excuse me if my thoughts are irrelevant to your day-to-day driving:
- Were the overtakes worthwhile, given you didn't make it to the head of the queue?
- Is positioning the car strongly, when it is obvious that there is no opportunity to pass, a good thing?
- Did your chosen following distance behind the Landrover (or similar) help or hinder you?
- Were you tense before and while overtaking? If so why, and what could you do differently?
WilliBetz
- Were the overtakes worthwhile, given you didn't make it to the head of the queue?
- Is positioning the car strongly, when it is obvious that there is no opportunity to pass, a good thing?
- Did your chosen following distance behind the Landrover (or similar) help or hinder you?
- Were you tense before and while overtaking? If so why, and what could you do differently?
WilliBetz
Edited by willibetz on Sunday 4th March 19:10
willibetz said:
- Were the overtakes worthwhile, given you didn't make it to the head of the queue?
Well he did get to the head of the queue and then the film stopped for whatever reason
. I presume he overtook the horsebox after. He was making good progress IMO, but I deffo wouldn't have overtaken at the junction. The other overtakes were very good, I thought.Hello Willi
I cut the video at the start of the 50 limit because the next bit was just three minutes of the back of a horse box. I overtook it at the start of the next NSL and didn't come across any more traffic for the next 5 miles or so.
As to whether it was worth it, I'd say that depends on lots of things - on this occasion I was practising, it did open up a clear bit of road in front of me, and I was on a long journey so I'd say it was. Often though I'll not overtake, but my ultimate aim is to acquire the skills to be able to make the most of every opportunity. I'm not suggesting that everybody should be out there doing this all the time, but if you are going to do it then it makes sense to practice.
As for the positioning, in my (admittedly limited) experience that kind of overt positioning has two benefits - it gives a much better view and also tells the cars in front and behind that you're actively looking to get past. As well as trying to read the signals your 'target' vehicle is sending out, I also like to give them clues to my intentions. So far, it's been the case that this kind of thing hasn't provoked any negative reactions - sideways movement without acceleration seems to alarm less than getting right up close behind.
The following position behind the black 4x4 (I assume you mean this rather than the white Land Rover) didn't hinder me as far as I can tell, but as discussed previously I had no view up the inside which I now realise could have been a very bad thing.
Tense? Well, I suppose the adrenaline was flowing a bit but I hope that sharpened my reactions rather than compromising them. The more I do of this the more I feel I'm able to do the mental processing fast enough. If you consider the number of decisions, observations and car controls required in that brief minute or so it's quite an ask to get them all right - even more so if you never practice. I guess the aim is to work within your ability and know when to stop - I would hope I do.
I cut the video at the start of the 50 limit because the next bit was just three minutes of the back of a horse box. I overtook it at the start of the next NSL and didn't come across any more traffic for the next 5 miles or so.
As to whether it was worth it, I'd say that depends on lots of things - on this occasion I was practising, it did open up a clear bit of road in front of me, and I was on a long journey so I'd say it was. Often though I'll not overtake, but my ultimate aim is to acquire the skills to be able to make the most of every opportunity. I'm not suggesting that everybody should be out there doing this all the time, but if you are going to do it then it makes sense to practice.
As for the positioning, in my (admittedly limited) experience that kind of overt positioning has two benefits - it gives a much better view and also tells the cars in front and behind that you're actively looking to get past. As well as trying to read the signals your 'target' vehicle is sending out, I also like to give them clues to my intentions. So far, it's been the case that this kind of thing hasn't provoked any negative reactions - sideways movement without acceleration seems to alarm less than getting right up close behind.
The following position behind the black 4x4 (I assume you mean this rather than the white Land Rover) didn't hinder me as far as I can tell, but as discussed previously I had no view up the inside which I now realise could have been a very bad thing.
Tense? Well, I suppose the adrenaline was flowing a bit but I hope that sharpened my reactions rather than compromising them. The more I do of this the more I feel I'm able to do the mental processing fast enough. If you consider the number of decisions, observations and car controls required in that brief minute or so it's quite an ask to get them all right - even more so if you never practice. I guess the aim is to work within your ability and know when to stop - I would hope I do.
I've really enjoyed this topic and many thanks to the OP for introducing it. Perhaps it would be instructive to have more of this sort of thing. Unfortunately all I have is a mental picture of the sequence(s) as I can't view the video.
I must speak to my System Administrator; I expect it's something to do with security.
Michael!!
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I must speak to my System Administrator; I expect it's something to do with security.
Michael!! Best wishes all,
Dave.
I wouldn't have overtaken where you did at 1m07s. If there was a copper behind you i'm sure you would have got pulled.
I think you should pull into the gaps quicker so the overtaken car cannot close the gap. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's had someone try to do that forcing you to go faster or brake.
Some pretty smooth driving though.
I think you should pull into the gaps quicker so the overtaken car cannot close the gap. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's had someone try to do that forcing you to go faster or brake.
Some pretty smooth driving though.
Enfield said:
I think you should pull into the gaps quicker so the overtaken car cannot close the gap. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's had someone try to do that forcing you to go faster or brake.
I hope you are, I'd never consider cutting somebody up just to make sure they don't undertake me.
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