Driving technique advice- roundabouts

[randomcharacter]

Hello all,

I'm after an opinion on the correct course of action in the following, everyday driving scenario:

You are at the head of a queue to join a busy 3 lane roundabout.

The entry road you are on has two lanes and you are in the left hand lane. Both lanes are queued.

You wish to turn left to take the first exit which is a dual carriageway.

You are in a pretty low car so your view of the traffic on the roundabout is obscured by the queue of cars on your right in the other lane. i.e. you can't see over the cars or through their windows well enough to see all three lanes of approaching traffic on the roundabout.

When you try to creep forward to get a better view, the cars in the lane next to you also creep so that you still can't see - whatever you do you can't get a full view of the traffic approaching on the roundabout. And when a car goes from the lane next to you, the roundabout is so busy that by the time you've had chance to assess the traffic the chance is gone.

The actual junction I'm thinking of is the clockwise exit of J20 of the M25, turning left onto the A41 torwads Hemel.

In the end I used a car in the lane to my right as a 'shield'- i.e. when they went, I went. I never feel comfortable putting my trust in someone elses judgement but I could see that I would be there all day if I waited for a clear view for myself.

So, opinions? A reasonable technique or lunacy ?

Thanks

Edited by randomcharacter on Thursday 27th July 10:53

Edited by randomcharacter on Thursday 27th July 10:55

[dougc]

Welcome to PH Mr Random. An interesting first post. I have much the same problem in the S due to its height and bonnet length. Even if the car on the inside doesn't creep forwards too, the bonnet is so long that I risk getting clouted if I edge out far enough to see onto the roundabout. I've found the best bet is to hang back and try and look around the back of the car at the front of the queue next to you i.e between it and the car behind - works pretty well most of the time.

I know the junction you are referring to - it can be a real pain in rush hour - but I can't say I've ever turned from the M25 to the A41 in the Tiv before so not noticed the problem. Don't know whether the hanging back method would work here due to the vicinity of the bridge carrying the motorway....

Edit for carp spolling

Edited by dougc on Thursday 27th July 11:02

[leosayer]

I do this, it was actually taught to me by my driving instructors before I passed my test. I tend to only do it with large vehicles like buses and lorries as no matter how low your car, you can normally see through a gap behind or in front to get a good enough view.

[bus_ter]

Ideally I think you just need to wait until the car to your right moves away and leaves a gap where you can see. If there was a big enough gap for him to go out then hopefully it will be big enough for you to go too shortly afterwards. If not try again.

However I think waiting for them to go and then go yourself is ok. The only problem I can see is that he decides to take the first exit and then crosses into your lane. At this point you should be quite visible and he *should* slow down a little and allow you to go in front and then pull in behind you.

Just my thoughts and experiences with a low car too (smart roadster)

[planetdave]

Officially...you shouldn't go until you can see that there is no risk.

But if you have a wall of steel to your right you are pretty damn sure that you are safe.

Remember that traffic from your right also has an obscured view and thus should be taking extra care.

It's one of those grey areas where risk should just be reduced to a minimum ie floor it.

[randomcharacter]

Thanks for all your replies. Some very good points there.

I've been driving for 10 years and I've read a couple of advanced driving books (and *tried* to put some of it into practice) but I still occasionally find myself in situations where I'm not 100% sure what the best course of action is. I think to myself "What would a Class 1 driver do here?" but at the time I'm never sure!

[sevener]

Hello Mr Random!
On behalf of a "Class 1" who isn't subscribed here... he's normally out training...

As you approach the roundabout in lane 1, if it's busy ahead of you, then hang back to take your initial overview from between the larger vehicles to your right. As the vehicles in front clear into the roundabout and when there is only one vehicle in front to your right and you're first in line in your lane, before moving to the give-way, check from behind the RH vehicle to make sure of the movements of vehicles already on the roundabout and make a positive left turn. Using a very large vehicle as a shield is fine if you're happy to be on a curved path with a complete stranger but if it's only a tad bigger than you are, IF he enters the roundabout inappropriately and gets side-swiped by someone from his right, the force could push his vehicle into yours. Also, if you accelerate firmly into your left turn, you might be accelerating into the path of someone who's already on the roundabout and is in the process of making a swoop from the lane nearest the hub, round the front of your 'shield' and straight into lane one of the new road.

Of course, no situation is ever the same and each one should be weighed up on its own merits!

HTH
Sevener

[Andrew Noakes]

randomcharacter said:

I used a car in the lane to my right as a 'shield'- i.e. when they went, I went.

I think that's a valid technique, provided you keep an eye on them. You don't want them to change their mind, stop, and leave you facing oncoming traffic.

[Crippo]

What do you mean a "Class 1 driver is out Training". That you actually go out driving to get practice at driving???? Why not get experience when you need to go driving rather than clogging up the road waiting to exit from roundabouts when you can properly see - ie. Never. Seems very sad or am I missing something here?

[planetdave]

Well it's all good stuff and absolutely textbook...but useless for rush hour and also doesn't answer the specific question

ie You are at the head of a queue to join a busy 3 lane roundabout.

If you tried hanging back for a visual in rush hour the Kenneth Noyes would have you double quick.

Also, unless I am completely batty, having a bus or jugger to your right will block off access round the front for even motorbikes on all but the largest roundabouts. It's the ones coming round the back that usually cause the problem. In which case judicious use of the loud pedal is your best choice.

[mph999]

Alternativley, use a different route ...







coat door gone

Edited by mph999 on Saturday 29th July 01:15

[Jungles]

randomcharacter said:

In the end I used a car in the lane to my right as a 'shield'- i.e. when they went, I went. I never feel comfortable putting my trust in someone elses judgement but I could see that I would be there all day if I waited for a clear view for myself.

So, opinions? A reasonable technique or lunacy ?

It's not lunacy. I use it, and it was approved by my driving instructors "back in the day" as well.

However, it is definitely preferred that you can check the view for yourself. If the adjacent car is not much larger than your own, you can usually look through their windows for anything big approaching. If the adjacent vehicle is a bus or truck, then I'm pretty sure it would be safe to move off alongside them, since bus and truck drivers would - one would hope - leave enough gap for their own slow acceleration through the roundabout, and their mass would offer ample protection against most side collisions.

As has been said by previous posters, the only thing to really worry about is if the driver of the adjacent vehicle is undecisive and changes his/her mind, etc.

[7db]

I subscribe to the peek behind method -- if you are having a good look as you slowly approach the roundabout, then the chances are you will be able to slot into a gap on first pass, leaving Mr View-Blocker stuck in the starting gate. Ideal as it doesn't violate StressedDaves rule of roundabouts.

[Fiskkeeper]

a Class 1 driver? as in LGV class 1? they'd look over the car & see the junction clearly...