made a lane cock-up today...
Discussion
was on the A3 North towards Esher (3 lanes), was travelling in L1. There was a significantly slower car in front so I started planning to pull out. There was a car in L2 a way back but too close for me to pull out. There was a car in L3 a way back but too close to the L2 car for it to pull out too.
The L2 car anticipated my need to pull out so sped up to go by quicker. The L3 car stayed in place. I mirror-checked, shoulder checked, signalled and started to pull out, but the L3 car then decided to pull in to L2 sharpish. As I suddenly lost him in my mirrors into my blind spot, I abandoned pulling out and stayed in L1 and braked.
It was all ok, but I had to brake more sharply in L1 than I would have liked and if I had carried on my manoeuvre, then there would most likely have been a coming together. A couple of years ago I would have just gone out and that would be that!
I'm not an Advanced Driver, but a self-taught advanced driver, so it just goes to show!
Graham
The L2 car anticipated my need to pull out so sped up to go by quicker. The L3 car stayed in place. I mirror-checked, shoulder checked, signalled and started to pull out, but the L3 car then decided to pull in to L2 sharpish. As I suddenly lost him in my mirrors into my blind spot, I abandoned pulling out and stayed in L1 and braked.
It was all ok, but I had to brake more sharply in L1 than I would have liked and if I had carried on my manoeuvre, then there would most likely have been a coming together. A couple of years ago I would have just gone out and that would be that!
I'm not an Advanced Driver, but a self-taught advanced driver, so it just goes to show!
Graham
It sounds as if the driver in lane 3 failed the 'observation and anticipation' test that time. I hate cars that lane change through my blind spots, it makes it that much harder to stay up to date on what's around me. In hindsight, is there anything you could have done to discourage him from moving across to box you in? How long were you signalling before you started to move out?
yes I wondered that. I was signalling a reasonable time, but I didn't start until the L2 guy was clearly going past. The other thing I wondered is that I have noticed of late that indicators seem to be much harder to see these days. In the old British Leyland days proper cars (Marina, Montego, Maestro, Lotus) had sensible big indicators. Modern cheap, light, plastic cars (TVR Tamora) have really squitty ones which are hard to see esp in the sunlight.
Graham
Graham
A bit of body language helps, too. You can move within your own lane to show your intentions, but good early indication, as Greenie says, is the thing.
Of course the real answer is to spot that going on early enough and get out there before Mr Lane 2 arrive, and just be "in his way", rather than "cutting him up".
Of course the real answer is to spot that going on early enough and get out there before Mr Lane 2 arrive, and just be "in his way", rather than "cutting him up".
7db said:
A bit of body language helps, too. You can move within your own lane to show your intentions, but good early indication, as Greenie says, is the thing.
Of course the real answer is to spot that going on early enough and get out there before Mr Lane 2 arrive, and just be "in his way", rather than "cutting him up".
Of course the real answer is to spot that going on early enough and get out there before Mr Lane 2 arrive, and just be "in his way", rather than "cutting him up".
Right, except I would prefer to not even be in his way. I think we all appreciate the need to try to be a bit ahead of the game in terms of forecasting how things are likely to evolve, forming plans and up-dating them.
In this case it's a pity you didn't identify the need to move to lane 2 a bit earlier, then move over and boot it, and leave them all behind to sort themselves out. Sorry Graham, I'm not meaning to be critical, we can all have these moments when we're a bit slow to recognise what's going on.
The important things are that no harm resulted, you've remembered the incident, you've thought about it, and you will cope better in future - and so will we now that it has been considered here.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
The other thing to remember is that you dealt with it. It's as imprtant to concentrate what you did right as much as what you did wrong.
Lets face it, you knew what was in lane 2, you knew what was in lane 3, you planned what you were going to do, you allowed lane 2 to react, you started the move, you did all the mirror checks and shoulder checks required, and in doing so identified when the situation changed. Becasue of all the previous actions you were able to avoid a nasty accident.
That puts you above 99% of the other drivers on the motorway, so well done I say. If I was your teacher I would wag my finger, but then tell you that I was really very proud of you.
Regards
Sally
Lets face it, you knew what was in lane 2, you knew what was in lane 3, you planned what you were going to do, you allowed lane 2 to react, you started the move, you did all the mirror checks and shoulder checks required, and in doing so identified when the situation changed. Becasue of all the previous actions you were able to avoid a nasty accident.
That puts you above 99% of the other drivers on the motorway, so well done I say. If I was your teacher I would wag my finger, but then tell you that I was really very proud of you.
Regards
Sally
GreenV8S said:
I hate cars that lane change through my blind spots, it makes it that much harder to stay up to date on what's around me.
Quite agree. Changing lanes while 'broadside' (or just aft) of other vehicles on a motorway is a dangerous business, especially where vans/lorries are concerned.
gridgway said:
was on the A3 North towards Esher (3 lanes), was travelling in L1. There was a significantly slower car in front so I started planning to pull out. There was a car in L2 a way back but too close for me to pull out. There was a car in L3 a way back but too close to the L2 car for it to pull out too.
The L2 car anticipated my need to pull out so sped up to go by quicker. The L3 car stayed in place. I mirror-checked, shoulder checked, signalled and started to pull out, but the L3 car then decided to pull in to L2 sharpish. As I suddenly lost him in my mirrors into my blind spot, I abandoned pulling out and stayed in L1 and braked.
It was all ok, but I had to brake more sharply in L1 than I would have liked and if I had carried on my manoeuvre, then there would most likely have been a coming together. A couple of years ago I would have just gone out and that would be that!
I'm not an Advanced Driver, but a self-taught advanced driver, so it just goes to show!
Graham
The L2 car anticipated my need to pull out so sped up to go by quicker. The L3 car stayed in place. I mirror-checked, shoulder checked, signalled and started to pull out, but the L3 car then decided to pull in to L2 sharpish. As I suddenly lost him in my mirrors into my blind spot, I abandoned pulling out and stayed in L1 and braked.
It was all ok, but I had to brake more sharply in L1 than I would have liked and if I had carried on my manoeuvre, then there would most likely have been a coming together. A couple of years ago I would have just gone out and that would be that!
I'm not an Advanced Driver, but a self-taught advanced driver, so it just goes to show!
Graham
Don't worry about it, think we all get caught out by that one occassionally.
M
gridgway said:
I mirror-checked, shoulder checked, signalled and started to pull out
Reading that again, it gives the impression that the signal was only started very shortly before the lane change. I think that there are a lot of zombie drivers who only notice what's going on if there's a big flashing light telling them about it, so by the time you signalled the lane three-er might have mentally committed to the lane change and maybe even already started. I'm getting more cautious in my old age, and I like to signal four seconds before a lane change. I hope that's enough to avoid surprising even the dopiest of drivers. I still don't like moving into the potential path of another vehicle in that sort of situation, I've felt myself falling into that sort of a trap too many times in the past.
thanks for the replies chaps and chappesses...in no particular order...
I'm not too stressed about it as my observation routine coped (which it wouldn't have done a few years ago), more analytical about what happened so...
Could have planned and moved into L2 earlier, but was actually quite happy slowing in L1 until it was clear in L2. It just happened to appear to be clearing in L2 earlier (as the L2 driver anticipated my car-body-language).
I was a bit slow to recognise what was going on, but did so in time.
One thing I missed in my plan is anticipating actually what happened and having a contingency plan for it. I am normally very aware of cars coming in when I pull out, just this one time where the car in L2 was "clearly" going by! :-))
It's nice to learn things!
Graham
I'm not too stressed about it as my observation routine coped (which it wouldn't have done a few years ago), more analytical about what happened so...
Could have planned and moved into L2 earlier, but was actually quite happy slowing in L1 until it was clear in L2. It just happened to appear to be clearing in L2 earlier (as the L2 driver anticipated my car-body-language).
I was a bit slow to recognise what was going on, but did so in time.
One thing I missed in my plan is anticipating actually what happened and having a contingency plan for it. I am normally very aware of cars coming in when I pull out, just this one time where the car in L2 was "clearly" going by! :-))
It's nice to learn things!
Graham
GreenV8S said:
Reading that again, it gives the impression that the signal was only started very shortly before the lane change. I think that there are a lot of zombie drivers who only notice what's going on if there's a big flashing light telling them about it, so by the time you signalled the lane three-er might have mentally committed to the lane change and maybe even already started. I'm getting more cautious in my old age, and I like to signal four seconds before a lane change. I hope that's enough to avoid surprising even the dopiest of drivers. I still don't like moving into the potential path of another vehicle in that sort of situation, I've felt myself falling into that sort of a trap too many times in the past.
One tip I was given was to signal for 1 second for each 10mph you are travelling e.g. 6 secs at 60mph. Not a hard and fast rule, as obviously I dont always want to signal for 12 seconds (only joking!!!) but a good guidleine at the faster speeds.
However, any time spent signalling before the lane change is better than the majority who seem to signal only when they actually start going across.
Lady Godiva said:
GreenV8S said:
Reading that again, it gives the impression that the signal was only started very shortly before the lane change. I think that there are a lot of zombie drivers who only notice what's going on if there's a big flashing light telling them about it, so by the time you signalled the lane three-er might have mentally committed to the lane change and maybe even already started. I'm getting more cautious in my old age, and I like to signal four seconds before a lane change. I hope that's enough to avoid surprising even the dopiest of drivers. I still don't like moving into the potential path of another vehicle in that sort of situation, I've felt myself falling into that sort of a trap too many times in the past.
One tip I was given was to signal for 1 second for each 10mph you are travelling e.g. 6 secs at 60mph. Not a hard and fast rule, as obviously I dont always want to signal for 12 seconds (only joking!!!) but a good guidleine at the faster speeds.
However, any time spent signalling before the lane change is better than the majority who seem to signal only when they actually start going across.
Half-way over. And then you'll only get one flash, cos they don't want to wear out the bulb.
Hi gridgway!
For a car to get into the 'blind spot' area, it must have first been visible in the rvm. As you quite rightly identified, because it was in neither rvm or door mirror, it had to be in that 'blind spot' which is created incidentally by the A, B and C pillars becoming ever larger in modern car designs. (Something to do with Mr Moseley's crash criteria measurements)
It's quite common to see the scissor actions of lanes 1 and 3 drivers as they both aim for the middle ground without full use of obs. Going slightly O/T, I find the design of the A pillar in our Über Barge is a real pain, particularly on the approach to roundabouts. It would be easy to miss something small like a motorbike if I didn't move for'ard and aft of the pillar to fully check. In the Seven, lane changes require even more body movements prior to a change of course!
Best wishes
Sevener
For a car to get into the 'blind spot' area, it must have first been visible in the rvm. As you quite rightly identified, because it was in neither rvm or door mirror, it had to be in that 'blind spot' which is created incidentally by the A, B and C pillars becoming ever larger in modern car designs. (Something to do with Mr Moseley's crash criteria measurements)
It's quite common to see the scissor actions of lanes 1 and 3 drivers as they both aim for the middle ground without full use of obs. Going slightly O/T, I find the design of the A pillar in our Über Barge is a real pain, particularly on the approach to roundabouts. It would be easy to miss something small like a motorbike if I didn't move for'ard and aft of the pillar to fully check. In the Seven, lane changes require even more body movements prior to a change of course! Best wishes
Sevener
Hi Sevener,
I was in my TVR Tamora at the time with the top down, so had a good view! It was the unexpected not being in my plan that caught me out.
Why do you need to move so much in the 7? Like the Tam, it has good over the shoulder vis on the rh side (well mine does anyway, the 7 that is, but dont remind er indoors who will ask me again why I want two, 2-seater sports cars!).
Graham
I was in my TVR Tamora at the time with the top down, so had a good view! It was the unexpected not being in my plan that caught me out.
Why do you need to move so much in the 7? Like the Tam, it has good over the shoulder vis on the rh side (well mine does anyway, the 7 that is, but dont remind er indoors who will ask me again why I want two, 2-seater sports cars!).
Graham
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