A short lived romance!
Discussion
Well I promised to give you some feedback on my involvement with the IAM, so here it is:
This afternoon I met up with my Observer for my first observed drive, and I regret to say it has turned out to be also my last observed drive. In fact the affair can only be described as a complete disaster. All that seems to have been achieved is that I have contributed £85.00 to IAM funds, and they are very welcome to that, as I fully support all meaningful attempts to improve driving standards in this country, but I can see absolutely no future for me as an IAM Associate. I had anticipated some difficulty of course, but the reality proved to be a good deal worse than my most pessimistic expectations.
According to the notes sent to me by the local IAM Group, the first part of the drive should have been representative of my normal driving style, and not an attempt to produce what I thought the Observer would wish to see. This proved not to be the case at all. The Observer was not interested in my normal driving style. All he was interested in was selling The System in the most minute detail. Measured against this standard I have to report that I failed miserably.
My Observer was not happy with the following points:
General handling of the steering wheel.
Steering wheel grip
Too much single handed steering.
Making gear changes while steering.
Inadequate use of mirrors.
Improper use of gears.
Unsatisfactory approach to roundabouts and junctions.
There might have been even more problems, but right now I feel so demoralised I can’t remember them.
For the record, my Observer was a retired gentleman, probably a few years younger than I am, and apparently he was previously a Civil Servant. Anyhow, before we finally went our separate ways I did say to him that I did not think I could meet the requirements for the IAM test, so there seemed little point in us continuing. It also crossed my mind that if I were to continue to try and change to their way of doing things, I might end up being a worse driver than I already am, and I’m quite serious about that. I shall quite understand if some of you have difficulty with that concept.
In this context I would ask the reader to bear in mind that my system has been evolved and refined over a very long period of time and a huge mileage, and it has given very good results, and biased though I am, I would suggest that there is little sign of it failing to cope satisfactorily with practically any scenario that one might encounter while driving. In view of that it seems wrong that it should be brushed aside and totally rejected on the strength of an ‘assessment’ lasting no more than 30 minutes in which we covered little more than 10 miles.
My conclusion from this sorry episode is this:
The IAM is a long established and respected organisation, well placed to make a major contribution to the cause of improved driving standards and road safety. Even so, there is a serious problem with their image, attitude and style, and until some improvements are made they are not going to achieve what needs doing in terms of improving driver performance and road safety. This is not just my view, as I understand many other people decide against joining the IAM through such concerns, and young drivers are particularly likely to be put off by this. The relative failure of the Max Power initiative, aimed at young drivers, seems to bear this out all too well.
You may recall that after a long period during which I criticised the IAM from the outside, I came to the view that what I should be doing is joining them and trying to help from the inside, but following my experience this afternoon that approach does not seem to be workable. Nevertheless, I shall not give up on this.
The IAM has the potential to be a much stronger force in the pursuit of better driving standards and improved road safety for all road users, and especially young drivers, in whom I have a particular interest, but substantial changes to their approach will be needed if that potential is to be realised.
I am truly sorry about what has happened this afternoon, but clearly a re-think is necessary on my part, and perhaps by others. Maybe if the IAM is not willing to make suitable changes another new organisation might be needed to take their place.
Quite probably many of you will feel that the blame for the fiasco this afternoon lies entirely with me, in which by all means feel free to let me know - but I don’t think it is quite so clear cut as all that.
My best wishes to you all,
Dave.
This afternoon I met up with my Observer for my first observed drive, and I regret to say it has turned out to be also my last observed drive. In fact the affair can only be described as a complete disaster. All that seems to have been achieved is that I have contributed £85.00 to IAM funds, and they are very welcome to that, as I fully support all meaningful attempts to improve driving standards in this country, but I can see absolutely no future for me as an IAM Associate. I had anticipated some difficulty of course, but the reality proved to be a good deal worse than my most pessimistic expectations.
According to the notes sent to me by the local IAM Group, the first part of the drive should have been representative of my normal driving style, and not an attempt to produce what I thought the Observer would wish to see. This proved not to be the case at all. The Observer was not interested in my normal driving style. All he was interested in was selling The System in the most minute detail. Measured against this standard I have to report that I failed miserably.
My Observer was not happy with the following points:
General handling of the steering wheel.
Steering wheel grip
Too much single handed steering.
Making gear changes while steering.
Inadequate use of mirrors.
Improper use of gears.
Unsatisfactory approach to roundabouts and junctions.
There might have been even more problems, but right now I feel so demoralised I can’t remember them.
For the record, my Observer was a retired gentleman, probably a few years younger than I am, and apparently he was previously a Civil Servant. Anyhow, before we finally went our separate ways I did say to him that I did not think I could meet the requirements for the IAM test, so there seemed little point in us continuing. It also crossed my mind that if I were to continue to try and change to their way of doing things, I might end up being a worse driver than I already am, and I’m quite serious about that. I shall quite understand if some of you have difficulty with that concept.
In this context I would ask the reader to bear in mind that my system has been evolved and refined over a very long period of time and a huge mileage, and it has given very good results, and biased though I am, I would suggest that there is little sign of it failing to cope satisfactorily with practically any scenario that one might encounter while driving. In view of that it seems wrong that it should be brushed aside and totally rejected on the strength of an ‘assessment’ lasting no more than 30 minutes in which we covered little more than 10 miles.
My conclusion from this sorry episode is this:
The IAM is a long established and respected organisation, well placed to make a major contribution to the cause of improved driving standards and road safety. Even so, there is a serious problem with their image, attitude and style, and until some improvements are made they are not going to achieve what needs doing in terms of improving driver performance and road safety. This is not just my view, as I understand many other people decide against joining the IAM through such concerns, and young drivers are particularly likely to be put off by this. The relative failure of the Max Power initiative, aimed at young drivers, seems to bear this out all too well.
You may recall that after a long period during which I criticised the IAM from the outside, I came to the view that what I should be doing is joining them and trying to help from the inside, but following my experience this afternoon that approach does not seem to be workable. Nevertheless, I shall not give up on this.
The IAM has the potential to be a much stronger force in the pursuit of better driving standards and improved road safety for all road users, and especially young drivers, in whom I have a particular interest, but substantial changes to their approach will be needed if that potential is to be realised.
I am truly sorry about what has happened this afternoon, but clearly a re-think is necessary on my part, and perhaps by others. Maybe if the IAM is not willing to make suitable changes another new organisation might be needed to take their place.
Quite probably many of you will feel that the blame for the fiasco this afternoon lies entirely with me, in which by all means feel free to let me know - but I don’t think it is quite so clear cut as all that.
My best wishes to you all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
General handling of the steering wheel.
Steering wheel grip
Too much single handed steering.
Making gear changes while steering.
Inadequate use of mirrors.
Improper use of gears.
Unsatisfactory approach to roundabouts and junctions.
There might have been even more problems, but right now I feel so demoralised I can’t remember them.
Dave.
Please do not give up at this stage. You can change your driving if you want to. The first drives are always somewhat demoralising - as an Observer I try very hard to give as much encouragement as possible at this time because, at the same time, I'm going to be dishing out the hardest critique!
The points you have been given are very, very common and for the most part quite easily fixed.
Take the recommendations on how to fix each of the above points and try them out in turn. Don't just do them blindly either (I know you wouldn't!). Try them - see if the car feels better balanced, more under control, smoother - or if you feel you have better awareness of a situation with the new technique/tip/trick.
Looking at these in turn
* General handling of the steering wheel.
Very common. Over the years nearly all of us adopt a less formal approach to steering. With that less formal approach lack of control can creep in. The IAM will not teach you Fixed Position or Rotational steering but will help you with Feeding. This is because you can pass the test with just the latter - its appropriate for nearly all road-driving conditions. An enthusiast will want the other two at his disposal as well, of course.
* Steering wheel grip
Did you tuck your thumbs through the wheel? Or perhaps grip the wheel from "underneath"? The thumbs thing is generally advised against as if you are unfortunate enough to be in a prang and the wheel twirls it can break your thumbs! Track and Rally drivers take the risk as a firmer grip *does* give better control.
* Too much single handed steering.
You *know* that's a "bad habit". Usually its because you are trying to cram in too many things at once....like...
* Making gear changes while steering.
Gear change before the turn. Drive through it. Leaves your hands completely free to steer (good if grip becomes a problem). A common time this happens is pulling out of junctions and grabbing for second - makes the turn difficult and less steady usually. I advise steering until you're straight and just using some more of first-gear and engine revs!
* Inadequate use of mirrors.
Very common. Mirror drill is important to build up situational awareness. Most people need more mirrors rather than less - but don't become bogged down in constant mirror checking for no reason. When your observer explains how to approach all hazards using the System it becomes a LOT easier to work out exactly when the mirrors must be checked and to fit them in. Another thing you'll find is that Observers like to see you LOOK at the mirror rather than glance our of the corner of your eye - as most of us fall into doing. There is a reason - that is that it is the central part of your vision that is sharp enough to properly assess distance - peripheral vision is blurred, brilliant at spotting movement but less good at knowing exactly where something is. So try turning your head at glancing quickly at the mirror when you do a check.
* Improper use of gears.
OF COURSE! You knew that one was coming. The system of car control is very specific about how to use gears. How could you NOT be doing it improperly if you weren't *already* using the System!
DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THIS ONE. You *will* be able to do it by the time you take your test. Its really counter-intuitive at first because you'll have had different advice when you learned and then you've got years of experience at "going down the box" etc. This CAN be fixed - and later, after the test, when you decide to incorporate heel and toe and overlaps you'll find that discipline easier because of getting this one - or at least, I did anyway...
* Unsatisfactory approach to roundabouts and junctions.
Did you ask what? Usually its Observation lapses of some kind. Not hard to put right.
Anyway - I hope any of the above helps.
Dave - GIVE IT A GO! You CAN! Once you get over the hump you'll even enjoy it! All the best at it. Feel free to ask any questions. If you're not getting an in-depth explanation for something from your Observer - ask here - I'll try and help.
TripleS said:
General handling of the steering wheel.
Steering wheel grip
Too much single handed steering.
Making gear changes while steering.
Inadequate use of mirrors.
Improper use of gears.
Unsatisfactory approach to roundabouts and junctions.
Dave...did he explain why those things were not correct or just criticise?
I joined my local group and was shocked by the standard of the observer I went out with. I am now getting into observing for Rospa, and so far have been much more impressed.
omegac said:
General handling of the steering wheel.
Steering wheel grip
Too much single handed steering.
Making gear changes while steering.
Inadequate use of mirrors.
Improper use of gears.
Unsatisfactory approach to roundabouts and junctions.
Dave...did he explain why those things were not correct or just criticise?
And did you get a "demo" drive? Someone should *show* you how to do all those things right - or as right as they can make them on the day, anyway, no-one's perfect...
TripleS said:
Quite probably many of you will feel that the blame for the fiasco this afternoon lies entirely with me, in which by all means feel free to let me know - but I don’t think it is quite so clear cut as all that.
You're probably expecting me to say, "Nyeerr nyeerrr told ya so!". But I won't.
Whilst your description of the events does sound like you were averse to learning, the fact that you went there at all demonstrates otherwise. Unfortunately, it would appear that my worst fears have been confirmed and you got precisely the kind of obeserver that I hoped you wouldn't. It would appear that there is rather a lot of criticism, no explanation as to why, and most importantly, no demonstration. It is a real shame that your first encounter has only served to bolster your pre-conceptions as you have already won half the battle by seeking to improve.
If you weren't so far away, I would teach you myself.
Don't give up, just try to find someone that you can get on with. If you never listen to anything else I say, trust me on this; Once you have learned and made the switch to The System, you will NEVER look back.
>> Edited by mefoster on Tuesday 21st February 19:47
Maybe it might be worth considering either a trip with a different observer who is willing to demonstrate as well as observe, or contacting your local RoSPA group for a potentially different experience?
You've made the first step, so why not continue? A bad experience for 30 minutes shouldn't taint your continued enjoyment of improving your driving. You've been vocal in your opinions and how you wanted to get your opinions across, and where as I may not agree with a lot of your posts (I've lurked on Usenet and seen the threads) all credit to you for taking the bull by the horns and getting stuck in. If more people did, I'm sure our roads would be a better place.
It really is a worthwhile experience to learn and be able to correctly implement the system, it is also equally important to continue to use and implement the system after achieving the standard. To me,that's the most important point, maintaining the standard, unlike a colleague of mine (IAM member) who has an interesting interpretation of parts of the system.....
Give it another go. You've nothing to lose and an awful lot of satisfaction to gain.
You've made the first step, so why not continue? A bad experience for 30 minutes shouldn't taint your continued enjoyment of improving your driving. You've been vocal in your opinions and how you wanted to get your opinions across, and where as I may not agree with a lot of your posts (I've lurked on Usenet and seen the threads) all credit to you for taking the bull by the horns and getting stuck in. If more people did, I'm sure our roads would be a better place.
It really is a worthwhile experience to learn and be able to correctly implement the system, it is also equally important to continue to use and implement the system after achieving the standard. To me,that's the most important point, maintaining the standard, unlike a colleague of mine (IAM member) who has an interesting interpretation of parts of the system.....
Give it another go. You've nothing to lose and an awful lot of satisfaction to gain.
Don, Omegac, and even my favourite sparring partner Mark 
- you're all very kind and I don't want you going to a lot of trouble in pursuit of something that still might not work in the end.
I will try to keep an open mind about this subject, but the inescapable fact is that I have a system that enables me to get good results. Of course it does not fully comply with The System, but I venture to suggest that the results are not too dissimilar.
I know that simply having had a long driving career does not guarantee anything, one could have been extremely lucky to stay relatively trouble free. Even so, I think I've reached a stage where I know what works, and what probably doesn't.
As for getting bogged down in too much rigidity, I really do have a problem with that, and I feel sure that is what I was faced with. You may not be convinced by this (and it is perhaps an odd notion) but suppose my Observer had been blindfolded this afternoon and had to make his judgement based on how the progress of the car felt to him then. He would have found that we made smooth progress in terms of acceleration, braking, gear changes, steering etc., complete freedom from sudden actions on my part, in fact nothing to upset him at all. He would not have known how the steering wheel was handled, and it didn't matter. The results in terms of car behaviour were OK, but there was just no relaxation of the detailed demands.
I did query the circumstances in which push-pull steering could be dispensed with, as I thought it would not be demanded at very low speed when driving, for example, through a car parking area, but he would not accept that. The only time push-pull was not required was, he reckoned, while reversing. I asked if push-pull was demanded in the interests of smoother steering control, as some do mention that aspect, but he said push-pull is essential to ensure proper steering control. Even while making a simple turn at about walking pace? Apparently so! This makes no practical sense to me.
In a way, I feel that this example of IAM mentality is far from being in the best interests of higher driving standards. This is parrot functioning, not thinking on a rational basis at all. I have no fundamental quarrel with The System itself, but I simply can not live with this total lack of flexibility in the detailed application of it. As usual I shall try to keep all these thoughts in mind, but at the moment I think I need a breathing space. I'm sorry gentlemen, perhaps we can talk another time. In the meantime a level of confidence that had developed over many years has been undermined in less than an hour, and I need to recover it.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
>> Edited by TripleS on Saturday 25th February 18:39
- you're all very kind and I don't want you going to a lot of trouble in pursuit of something that still might not work in the end. I will try to keep an open mind about this subject, but the inescapable fact is that I have a system that enables me to get good results. Of course it does not fully comply with The System, but I venture to suggest that the results are not too dissimilar.
I know that simply having had a long driving career does not guarantee anything, one could have been extremely lucky to stay relatively trouble free. Even so, I think I've reached a stage where I know what works, and what probably doesn't.
As for getting bogged down in too much rigidity, I really do have a problem with that, and I feel sure that is what I was faced with. You may not be convinced by this (and it is perhaps an odd notion) but suppose my Observer had been blindfolded this afternoon and had to make his judgement based on how the progress of the car felt to him then. He would have found that we made smooth progress in terms of acceleration, braking, gear changes, steering etc., complete freedom from sudden actions on my part, in fact nothing to upset him at all. He would not have known how the steering wheel was handled, and it didn't matter. The results in terms of car behaviour were OK, but there was just no relaxation of the detailed demands.
I did query the circumstances in which push-pull steering could be dispensed with, as I thought it would not be demanded at very low speed when driving, for example, through a car parking area, but he would not accept that. The only time push-pull was not required was, he reckoned, while reversing. I asked if push-pull was demanded in the interests of smoother steering control, as some do mention that aspect, but he said push-pull is essential to ensure proper steering control. Even while making a simple turn at about walking pace? Apparently so! This makes no practical sense to me.
In a way, I feel that this example of IAM mentality is far from being in the best interests of higher driving standards. This is parrot functioning, not thinking on a rational basis at all. I have no fundamental quarrel with The System itself, but I simply can not live with this total lack of flexibility in the detailed application of it. As usual I shall try to keep all these thoughts in mind, but at the moment I think I need a breathing space. I'm sorry gentlemen, perhaps we can talk another time. In the meantime a level of confidence that had developed over many years has been undermined in less than an hour, and I need to recover it.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
>> Edited by TripleS on Saturday 25th February 18:39
TripleS said:
In the meantime a level of confidence that had developed over many years has been undermined in less than an hour, and I need to recover it.
Dave...that line speaks volumes about your observer, as any decent observer will give what is called a sh*t sandwich, and the bread on yours would be that you bring X number of years experience, do XYZ well, but we could just try changing ABC.
If you've walked away with your confidence undermined, then I would take the advise of others and try another observer.
TripleS said:
In a way, I feel that this example of IAM mentality is far from being in the best interests of higher driving standards. This is parrot functioning, not thinking on a rational basis at all. I have no fundamental quarrel with The System itself, but I simply can not live with this total lack of flexibility in the detailed application of it. As usual I shall try to keep all these thoughts in mind, but at the moment I think I need a breathing space. I'm sorry gentlemen, perhaps we can talk another time. In the meantime a level of confidence that had developed over many years has been undermined in less than an hour, and I need to recover it.
I think that the best thing you can do now is to find a Class 1 driver and arrange a demonstration drive. That's all, just go out for a drive with someone for whom application of The System is second nature. I don't suggest that you get them to teach you anything or that you ask lots of questions. All I suggest is that you simply sit and watch an expert at work.
The first time I went out on a Demo with one of the instructors at Sussex Police Driving School I was completely and utterly in awe. Everything seemed so slow, deliberate and effected yet so perfectly in control that it wasn't until I glanced at the speedo that I realised how fast we actually going. That was it for me. A real Eureka moment. Everything about it was just so perfectly logical that I became a total convert on the spot.
So, find yourself a Class1 driver and get yourself a demo. I am absolutely convinced that it will make your mind up for you.
Dave
Stick that post in a letter, and send it to the Chairman of your local group, and to the Chief Exec of the IAM.
I don't know which group you are, but maybe I am glad I haven't had observation from my local group, given your report, and also the comments omegac made above, and to me when he took me out for an observed drive.
I am sure my standard of using the system was as bad as you describe yours was, but having been out with omegac, I felt I had learnt a lot and I had some clear things to practice on, which I have been doing. Actually omegac, I don't think you did use the shit sandwich technique, it was far more of a coaching technique (I noticed this as I've recently been on a coaching course!
), which is far more positive than a shit sandwich
Dave, I'm sorry you feel how you do. I'm also hoping to do a RoSPA day towards the end of March with the Dunstable RoSPA group, which is supposed to be far better, they are not my immediately local group, as the one in my specific area have a long waiting list. If you want details contact me via my profile here.
I hope something positive comes out of it.
Stick that post in a letter, and send it to the Chairman of your local group, and to the Chief Exec of the IAM.
I don't know which group you are, but maybe I am glad I haven't had observation from my local group, given your report, and also the comments omegac made above, and to me when he took me out for an observed drive.
I am sure my standard of using the system was as bad as you describe yours was, but having been out with omegac, I felt I had learnt a lot and I had some clear things to practice on, which I have been doing. Actually omegac, I don't think you did use the shit sandwich technique, it was far more of a coaching technique (I noticed this as I've recently been on a coaching course!
), which is far more positive than a shit sandwich Dave, I'm sorry you feel how you do. I'm also hoping to do a RoSPA day towards the end of March with the Dunstable RoSPA group, which is supposed to be far better, they are not my immediately local group, as the one in my specific area have a long waiting list. If you want details contact me via my profile here.
I hope something positive comes out of it.
On Saturday I am attending an introductory session being held by my local IAM group at the county police headquarters.
I have also been offered an observed drive. I will report back afterwards as I also have misgivings regarding a rigid 'system' for driving, but I am happy to be proved wrong if it improves my driving.
For 30 years I had jobs that required me to drive over 30K/year - one year I covered 45K. For the last couple of years I have been down to 12K. I have only been involved in one minir accident that was my fault but have 3 times been hit up the rear when stationary. Must admit to around 6 speeding offences in this time (and over a million miles) - all on motorways and dual-carriageways in good conditions with little or no traffic..
>> Edited by Philbes on Wednesday 22 February 15:32
I have also been offered an observed drive. I will report back afterwards as I also have misgivings regarding a rigid 'system' for driving, but I am happy to be proved wrong if it improves my driving.
For 30 years I had jobs that required me to drive over 30K/year - one year I covered 45K. For the last couple of years I have been down to 12K. I have only been involved in one minir accident that was my fault but have 3 times been hit up the rear when stationary. Must admit to around 6 speeding offences in this time (and over a million miles) - all on motorways and dual-carriageways in good conditions with little or no traffic..
>> Edited by Philbes on Wednesday 22 February 15:32
TS - I realise you are a p!ssed off, and everyone on here is (quite rightly) going to try and cheer you up. However, you've always sounded relatively sensible and openminded, so consider the following (then reject it if you want).
I'm not being antagonistic, but that doesn't sound open-minded. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying it's not open.
Have you been extremely lucky, or do you know for definite what works???
Honest question here; are you being a bit rigid about your current level of skill and knowledge?
But the method of advanced driving (including the steering wheel) is to help you deal with potential, as well as actual, problems. If I sat in your car blindfolded and you sped through a built up area at 150mph without hitting anyone, is that a reason to suggest that the instruction to hold back on the speed in built up areas is a bad one.
Always a difficult one, as Roadcraft definitely identifies the three main methods. Observers generally do push-pull, as it's a bit like a swiss army knife. One method suits all. I think you're right though that a bit more explanation would not have gone amiss.
Would it be possible for you to continue, then become an Observer and start to change things?
Don't give in.
These are just my thoughts Triple, and maybe I should be saying "oh tough luck, what a rotter" but (and it's a big but) I can see both sides here.
Do me a favour. Read through the above with a different head on. See if you agree with the logic. If you can, have another go. If you still can't, then pack it in. It's only £80, you are probably a safe driver, and it's not the end of the world.
Good luck in your decision.
>> Edited by big Fat F'er on Wednesday 22 February 13:47
TripleS said:
I will try to keep an open mind about this subject, but the inescapable fact is that I have a system that enables me to get good results. Of course it does not fully comply with The System, but I venture to suggest that the results are not too dissimilar.
I'm not being antagonistic, but that doesn't sound open-minded. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying it's not open.
TripleS said:
I know that simply having had a long driving career does not guarantee anything, one could have been extremely lucky to stay relatively trouble free. Even so, I think I've reached a stage where I know what works, and what probably doesn't.
Have you been extremely lucky, or do you know for definite what works???
TripleS said:
As for getting bogged down in too much rigidity, I really do have a problem with that, and I feel sure that is what I was faced with.
Honest question here; are you being a bit rigid about your current level of skill and knowledge?
TripleS said:
You may not be convinced by this (and it is perhaps an odd notion) but suppose my Observer had been blindfolded this afternoon and had to make his judgement based on how the progress of the car felt to him then. He would have found that we made smooth progress in terms of acceleration, braking, gear changes, steering etc., complete freedom from sudden actions on my part, in fact nothing to upset him at all. He would not have known how the steering wheel was handled, and it didn't matter. The results in terms of car behaviour were OK, but there was just no relaxation of the detailed demands.
But the method of advanced driving (including the steering wheel) is to help you deal with potential, as well as actual, problems. If I sat in your car blindfolded and you sped through a built up area at 150mph without hitting anyone, is that a reason to suggest that the instruction to hold back on the speed in built up areas is a bad one.
TripleS said:
I did query the circumstances in which push-pull steering could be dispensed with, as I thought it would not be demanded at very low speed when driving, for example, through a car parking area, but he would not accept that. The only time push-pull was not required was, he reckoned, while reversing. I asked if push-pull was demanded in the interests of smoother steering control, as some do mention that aspect, but he said push-pull is essential to ensure proper steering control. Even while making a simple turn at about walking pace? Apparently so! This makes no practical sense to me.
Always a difficult one, as Roadcraft definitely identifies the three main methods. Observers generally do push-pull, as it's a bit like a swiss army knife. One method suits all. I think you're right though that a bit more explanation would not have gone amiss.
TripleS said:
In a way, I feel that this example of IAM mentality is far from being in the best interests of higher driving standards. This is parrot functioning, not thinking on a rational basis at all. I have no fundamental quarrel with The System itself, but I simply can not live with this total lack of flexibility in the detailed application of it.
Would it be possible for you to continue, then become an Observer and start to change things?
TripleS said:
As usual I shall try to keep all these thoughts in mind, but at the moment I think I need a breathing space. I'm sorry gentlemen, perhaps we can talk another time. In the meantime a level of confidence that had developed over many years has been undermined in less than an hour, and I need to recover it.
Don't give in.
These are just my thoughts Triple, and maybe I should be saying "oh tough luck, what a rotter" but (and it's a big but) I can see both sides here.
Do me a favour. Read through the above with a different head on. See if you agree with the logic. If you can, have another go. If you still can't, then pack it in. It's only £80, you are probably a safe driver, and it's not the end of the world.
Good luck in your decision.
>> Edited by big Fat F'er on Wednesday 22 February 13:47
AquilaEagle said:
having been out with omegac, I felt I had learnt a lot and I had some clear things to practice on, which I have been doing.
Good news Ian, glad you feel it was of benefit.
AquilaEagle said:
Actually omegac, I don't think you did use the shit sandwich technique, it was far more of a coaching technique
I was actually just frightened, that with all those gadgets, you'd have something to eject or electrify me
I can understand where TS is coming from. Talking to observers at classroom sessions, some of them seem thouroughly stuck in their own manner. I had a chat with a few of them, but after lightly-stepping around some subjects, it seemed that anybody challenging their view was just wrong. There were two observers in late 20's / early 30's, and they seemed to understand why I might question certain subjects, and actually realise the IAM is not the be all and end all of driving methods. Our examiner, whilst an older bloke, clearly understands why people react the way they do when driving and restores my faith slightly that the IAM is not a fuddy-duddy club. There are a few stereotypical IAM observers and should these be present in a larger majority I think I would be de-moralised as well. I am quite fortunate with my group I believe. I get the impression there aren't many groups into which a 21 year old could go into!
Enough rambling. Like I previously mentioned, some observers have no flex, however mine was very good. My initial drive consisted of me driving for about half an hour. My observer did nothing apart from give directions and a few bits of local knowledge. He then gave me a quick 5 minute debrief. Thumbs on wheel, too many slightly unnecessary gear changes and a few other bits. It wasn't a dressdown, more just observations. Following this, he took me along the same route with full commentary. This direct comparison, as my drive was fresh in my mind, pointed out the little differences between us two, and made me realise a few of the things I'd missed. The idea I believe was to teach by osmosis. It worked quite well, and helped prove it's not too difficult to get to a higher standard (The impression I had anyway, I hope it's the right one!). I think the IAM needs a lesson in teaching, as a few members seeem to teach by parrot fashion, which I hoped died out a long time ago.
TS, I hope you persevere and find an observer suitable to you. Someone with a bit of flex who allows you to progress at your own pace. I expect this pace woulda actually turn out to be faster than the pace they would normally teach at. Is most of advanced driving not merely just confidence?
Enough rambling. Like I previously mentioned, some observers have no flex, however mine was very good. My initial drive consisted of me driving for about half an hour. My observer did nothing apart from give directions and a few bits of local knowledge. He then gave me a quick 5 minute debrief. Thumbs on wheel, too many slightly unnecessary gear changes and a few other bits. It wasn't a dressdown, more just observations. Following this, he took me along the same route with full commentary. This direct comparison, as my drive was fresh in my mind, pointed out the little differences between us two, and made me realise a few of the things I'd missed. The idea I believe was to teach by osmosis. It worked quite well, and helped prove it's not too difficult to get to a higher standard (The impression I had anyway, I hope it's the right one!). I think the IAM needs a lesson in teaching, as a few members seeem to teach by parrot fashion, which I hoped died out a long time ago.
TS, I hope you persevere and find an observer suitable to you. Someone with a bit of flex who allows you to progress at your own pace. I expect this pace woulda actually turn out to be faster than the pace they would normally teach at. Is most of advanced driving not merely just confidence?
With me being 23yrs old, the only thing i worry about when wanting to apply for the IAM is that i dont want some plonker aged 9 million, looking down his bifocals at the nike shox that i'm wearing, telling me that my aftershave is a bit to sweet to go with the road surface i am traveling on!
I understand where your coming from Dave, the observer should have know the fact that you are looking to improve your driving standard before being tested against it and it was unfair this has happened.
If i was in your situation and the observer did as he did with you id give him a piece of my mind regardless of how good a driver he might be!
No excuses!
Teach Dont Preach!
I understand where your coming from Dave, the observer should have know the fact that you are looking to improve your driving standard before being tested against it and it was unfair this has happened.
If i was in your situation and the observer did as he did with you id give him a piece of my mind regardless of how good a driver he might be!
No excuses!
Teach Dont Preach!
Dear oh dear.
Gentlemen. An Observer will critique one's driving.
They have absolutely no comments to make about one's manhood.
They do say you can
a man's wife but criticise his driving and he'll get annoyed. Well if you feel like that maybe Advanced Driving isn't for you. You *have* to be able to take criticism.
And no-one can teach you something if you don't agree with it.
Look at the yanks and the Evolution/Intelligent Design debate. Biology teachers all over the US must despair. Evolution is part of the curriculum but a third of the class stick their fingers in their ears and go "la-la-la" the minute they start talking about it?
[realitycheckmode=on]
Its not the Observer's job to convince you they're right. They don't have to. Its their job to show you how to drive using the Police System of Roadcraft. You can disagree with it. But this is like complaining to Trafpol that they should catch some real criminals instead of doing you for 95 on the M4...you can't win and all you'll do is make his day shit. Nice one, eh! Instead why not write to the Chief Examiner of the IAM to let him know he's wrong. Maybe if you have string of driving qualifications to your name and are, perhaps, at least nationally well known for your driving talents - like, say, Nigel Mansell, perhaps he'll listen, take what you're saying on-board and ensure that the next edition of Roadcraft gets updated with your sage wisdom.
[realitycheckmode=off]
I realise I'm laying it on a bit thick...but get a grip, guys! Pass the test. Prove you can do it "Systematically". Decide what you want to keep in your day to day driving from what *worked* for you.
I think that the thing that is missing for you is being impressed with the system and then wanting to learn it. If you got a really good demo drive then perhaps you would be able to cope with the shortcomings of the IAM method. If you don't get inspired by it, you are unlikely to want put effort in (well that's how it is for me!).
I am at the point where I am impressed with the roadcraft system, put it into practice quite well and want to refine it and improve my implementation of it. However I have found the IAM quite hard work for a couple of practical reasons. It's actually quite hard to get sessions with my group as they have just cut down the number of sundays. Also there is no continuity. The observers dont read the previous remarks so are not building on the last sessions. I have had 3 observed drives, each the same and each saying that was pretty good, and I'm really close to the test. However there has been no improvement in my driving and I have nothing to focus on trying and practising.
The observers are pretty good in my view, they have varied styles and are often not that good as coaches, but they are volunteers and they are trying to help. I'm not a good pupil as I consider quite a number of elements to be trivial and I am not that good at ignoring them - ie I argue! I'm not interested in the trivia of just how fast the clutch is wearing when I stop and have my foot on it for 5 seconds longer than the observer would have done, nor how much mechanical sympathy is really shown by the ratchetless handbrake! However, I have made a resolution not to get hung up over those things and focus on the important stuff.
However, I can't carry on with the IAM as it's too hard to match my diary with the sessions. My fault not theirs!
So after that long ramble, get a class 1 demo drive and if you are impressed and want to do it, I think the IAM can get you to make good progress!
Graham
editted to say: by "shortcomings" I mean that the IAM experience is somewhat variable, they do a very good job, but you have to work at getting the best out of it!
>> Edited by gridgway on Wednesday 22 February 20:15
I am at the point where I am impressed with the roadcraft system, put it into practice quite well and want to refine it and improve my implementation of it. However I have found the IAM quite hard work for a couple of practical reasons. It's actually quite hard to get sessions with my group as they have just cut down the number of sundays. Also there is no continuity. The observers dont read the previous remarks so are not building on the last sessions. I have had 3 observed drives, each the same and each saying that was pretty good, and I'm really close to the test. However there has been no improvement in my driving and I have nothing to focus on trying and practising.
The observers are pretty good in my view, they have varied styles and are often not that good as coaches, but they are volunteers and they are trying to help. I'm not a good pupil as I consider quite a number of elements to be trivial and I am not that good at ignoring them - ie I argue! I'm not interested in the trivia of just how fast the clutch is wearing when I stop and have my foot on it for 5 seconds longer than the observer would have done, nor how much mechanical sympathy is really shown by the ratchetless handbrake! However, I have made a resolution not to get hung up over those things and focus on the important stuff.
However, I can't carry on with the IAM as it's too hard to match my diary with the sessions. My fault not theirs!
So after that long ramble, get a class 1 demo drive and if you are impressed and want to do it, I think the IAM can get you to make good progress!
Graham
editted to say: by "shortcomings" I mean that the IAM experience is somewhat variable, they do a very good job, but you have to work at getting the best out of it!
>> Edited by gridgway on Wednesday 22 February 20:15
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff