Becoming "bored" with the IAM
Discussion
Hi everyone
As some of you may know I am an observer for my local IAM group (Mid-Kent). I'm 25yrs old, did the test when I was 23, went straight into being an observer, and have been observing for about 2yrs. At first I really enjoyed it and I found it brought me alot to my own personal driving, as well as (if I'm being honest) a hugely proud satisfaction when I saw immense progress in other's driving.
The problem is that it all seems to be very 'samey' and I am getting increasingly frustrated with some of the members in my group (not wishing to stereotype badly against the IAM, but by the very nature of the time dedication required the majorty of people are 55/60+ and very stuck in their ways; not wishing to accept change or discussion).
I end up writing the same things on the same run sheets in the same places every first sunday of the month. I'm trying to get involved with some group activities but, socially, they're very different people to me (this is no bad thing) and so I have only done a few events. I'm currently filming a remake of one of the videos (the motorway one) as I like to help and do all I can!
Then shows like "car wars" come on last night and it really does make me want to attain that much-higher standard of driving.
So, prompted by Don's mention of HPC in the other thread (Don, is that High Performance Course?), what are EXAMINABLE (is that a word?) courses that I may be able to take to get myself to as high a standard as possible, and maintain my desire to always learn?!
(by examinable I mean there are some high performance driving courses out there which I will do early summer, but I really want to have a qualification orientated course with quantifiable achievment and recognition)
Sorry it was such a long post but thanks for taking the time to read!
Tony
>> Edited by TonyHetherington on Thursday 16th February 09:19
As some of you may know I am an observer for my local IAM group (Mid-Kent). I'm 25yrs old, did the test when I was 23, went straight into being an observer, and have been observing for about 2yrs. At first I really enjoyed it and I found it brought me alot to my own personal driving, as well as (if I'm being honest) a hugely proud satisfaction when I saw immense progress in other's driving.
The problem is that it all seems to be very 'samey' and I am getting increasingly frustrated with some of the members in my group (not wishing to stereotype badly against the IAM, but by the very nature of the time dedication required the majorty of people are 55/60+ and very stuck in their ways; not wishing to accept change or discussion).
I end up writing the same things on the same run sheets in the same places every first sunday of the month. I'm trying to get involved with some group activities but, socially, they're very different people to me (this is no bad thing) and so I have only done a few events. I'm currently filming a remake of one of the videos (the motorway one) as I like to help and do all I can!
Then shows like "car wars" come on last night and it really does make me want to attain that much-higher standard of driving.
So, prompted by Don's mention of HPC in the other thread (Don, is that High Performance Course?), what are EXAMINABLE (is that a word?) courses that I may be able to take to get myself to as high a standard as possible, and maintain my desire to always learn?!
(by examinable I mean there are some high performance driving courses out there which I will do early summer, but I really want to have a qualification orientated course with quantifiable achievment and recognition)
Sorry it was such a long post but thanks for taking the time to read!
Tony
>> Edited by TonyHetherington on Thursday 16th February 09:19
HPC operates much like the "club" aspect of the IAM.
To enter you must pass a test...I believe StressedDave would know more about that. After that there is an annual membership and a range of club activities.
From an "outside" perspective (I am NOT an HPC member) from talking to members it is an interesting club with a range of driving activities upon which to spend your hard earned and enjoy yourself. They do the week-long drives in Scotland and Ice-Driving in Norway stuff.
The club also offers post-membership testing to achieve even higher levels of quantified, measured achievement. Which is nice - as it means you can set yourself goals - like getting the next one this year etc etc.
Passing is another matter though. Unlike the IAM/ROSPA where membership can be obtained very inexpensively the HPC is going to cost money. The chap I know reckoned he'd spent 2K getting himself through. I would hope that someone like yourself who has already achieved a high standard would be able to get in for less...I'm certainly hoping I can manage it! The reason behind the cost is that the training and testing are done by professional driver training organisations and individuals - like Don Palmer - who have been appointed by the HPC to do it. And they need paying.
The HPC as a "driver's" thing to do sounds great to me - so I will probably do it this year or next.
Unlike IAM/ROSPA it is NOT an organisation dedicated to raising the public's driving skills to improve Road Safety - it exists for the benefit of its members - whereas the IAM exists for the benefit of the public at large.
So please do continue your efforts for the IAM - they are MUCH appreciated. But for *fun* perhaps try the HPC?
Maybe Ted should start the Pistonheads Driving Club - complete with (hard) entry exam and further tests...
To enter you must pass a test...I believe StressedDave would know more about that. After that there is an annual membership and a range of club activities.
From an "outside" perspective (I am NOT an HPC member) from talking to members it is an interesting club with a range of driving activities upon which to spend your hard earned and enjoy yourself. They do the week-long drives in Scotland and Ice-Driving in Norway stuff.
The club also offers post-membership testing to achieve even higher levels of quantified, measured achievement. Which is nice - as it means you can set yourself goals - like getting the next one this year etc etc.
Passing is another matter though. Unlike the IAM/ROSPA where membership can be obtained very inexpensively the HPC is going to cost money. The chap I know reckoned he'd spent 2K getting himself through. I would hope that someone like yourself who has already achieved a high standard would be able to get in for less...I'm certainly hoping I can manage it! The reason behind the cost is that the training and testing are done by professional driver training organisations and individuals - like Don Palmer - who have been appointed by the HPC to do it. And they need paying.
The HPC as a "driver's" thing to do sounds great to me - so I will probably do it this year or next.
Unlike IAM/ROSPA it is NOT an organisation dedicated to raising the public's driving skills to improve Road Safety - it exists for the benefit of its members - whereas the IAM exists for the benefit of the public at large.
So please do continue your efforts for the IAM - they are MUCH appreciated. But for *fun* perhaps try the HPC?
Maybe Ted should start the Pistonheads Driving Club - complete with (hard) entry exam and further tests...
"Gatekeeper" trainers for HPC.
www.cadence.co.uk --- Master Driver's Course. £995.
www.donpalmer.co.uk
>> Edited by Don on Thursday 16th February 09:52
www.cadence.co.uk --- Master Driver's Course. £995.
www.donpalmer.co.uk
>> Edited by Don on Thursday 16th February 09:52
)Tony,
I've heard that ROSPA allows people to be examined to a higher standard than the IAM require, but beyond that HPC is regarded as the representing the highest level of civilian road driving in the UK. Beyond the standard required for membership of HPC (which I'd summarise as systematic progressive driving with an uncompromising requirement for safety), there are further examined awards for night driving, exemplary road driving and circuit driving. From your question, profile and videos, it strikes me that you would enjoy the challenge and the club.
I've heard that ROSPA allows people to be examined to a higher standard than the IAM require, but beyond that HPC is regarded as the representing the highest level of civilian road driving in the UK. Beyond the standard required for membership of HPC (which I'd summarise as systematic progressive driving with an uncompromising requirement for safety), there are further examined awards for night driving, exemplary road driving and circuit driving. From your question, profile and videos, it strikes me that you would enjoy the challenge and the club.
WilliBetz said:
Tony,
I've heard that ROSPA allows people to be examined to a higher standard than the IAM require, but beyond that HPC is regarded as the representing the highest level of civilian road driving in the UK. Beyond the standard required for membership of HPC (which I'd summarise as systematic progressive driving with an uncompromising requirement for safety), there are further examined awards for night driving, exemplary road driving and circuit driving. From your question, profile and videos, it strikes me that you would enjoy the challenge and the club.
In my experience, having passed both IAM and ROSPA (I got a "Gold"
, the Rospa test is very, very similar to the IAM one. Sure a "Gold" is a higher standard than an IAM Test Pass - but the IAM don't grade so you never really know how good you were. The IAM do offer the "Special Assessment". This isn't graded - you actually recieve a percentage score. I believe the highest awarded figure is in the high seventies - so if one is *bored* of regular IAM stuff one could always do the Special Assessment.
Willi - thanks for your thoughts!
I've often thought about doing RoSPA - applied for the info a few times but my problem with it is that I always thought it would be 'another IAM' rather than something over and above what I do now. That's why the opportunity of HPC really does excite me!
I've often thought about doing RoSPA - applied for the info a few times but my problem with it is that I always thought it would be 'another IAM' rather than something over and above what I do now. That's why the opportunity of HPC really does excite me!
HPC publishes the standards expected and required for entry and higher awards (and in particular the Gold award - recokened to be about as good as it gets in terms of civilian qualifications).
www.hpc.org.uk/standards/index.html
Much of it will be familiar to any Roadcraft-trained driver (as an IAM observer I'd expect you would be well on your way towards this).
I completed the course last November and joined the club.
As a first step, why not give StressedDave a call and book a day with him and get an assessment on where your driving is at relative to entry and see what work needs doing. How much it's going to cost will depend on how much training you need, but I can certainly recommend it as worth the dosh.
If he offers to strap the GPS box of tricks into your car then take it with both hands...
www.hpc.org.uk/standards/index.html
Much of it will be familiar to any Roadcraft-trained driver (as an IAM observer I'd expect you would be well on your way towards this).
I completed the course last November and joined the club.
As a first step, why not give StressedDave a call and book a day with him and get an assessment on where your driving is at relative to entry and see what work needs doing. How much it's going to cost will depend on how much training you need, but I can certainly recommend it as worth the dosh.
If he offers to strap the GPS box of tricks into your car then take it with both hands...
TonyHetherington said:
That's why the opportunity of HPC really does excite me!
One of the things that looks great in Cadence stuff is the use of Millbrook. Have you ever been there, Tony? Its AMAZING!
A "playground" designed for nothing else other than having the time of your life driving. The "Hill route" is an experience not to be missed.
Dave, thanks for the reply. Having a day with someone like StressedDave sounds like a really good idea. I assume he is an HPC member also? What does the GPS box of tricks do? That sounds VERY intriguing!!
Don - never been to Millbrook but I've seen it on TV so understand the part you mean. I didn't realise that was open to such organisations.
I think I'm going to really enjoy this....!
Don - never been to Millbrook but I've seen it on TV so understand the part you mean. I didn't realise that was open to such organisations.
I think I'm going to really enjoy this....!
I am an HPC member (I'm also on the Committee of the Club and work for one of the gatekeepers, so I probably spend a little too much time with it 
). The GPS box of tricks is a datalogger which records speed, position and accelerations (It records a hell of a lot extra in my car - see this [url]www.hpc.org.uk/lap2-1.wmv[/url] for it in action) while you drive which I can use to help diagnose and display any problems I find.
We do use Milbrook a lot - if you think the Hill Route is good, you should see the Outer Handling Circuit.
>> Edited by StressedDave on Thursday 16th February 11:27
). The GPS box of tricks is a datalogger which records speed, position and accelerations (It records a hell of a lot extra in my car - see this [url]www.hpc.org.uk/lap2-1.wmv[/url] for it in action) while you drive which I can use to help diagnose and display any problems I find. We do use Milbrook a lot - if you think the Hill Route is good, you should see the Outer Handling Circuit.
>> Edited by StressedDave on Thursday 16th February 11:27
Hi there,
I used to be active in High Performance Club events until biking took over. I can recommend the Club; it would stretch your driving sustantially above IAM/RoSPA. Also, HPC has an utterly different culture from IAM/RoSPA car groups. Club events can be more like high level exploration of driving techniques.
For those who've already done RoSPA Gold and wish to progress a little further, the IAM Special Assessment is worthwhile. It's a great shame that all IAM Observers don't have a go at it, because their observing would improve tremendously. I did the IAM Special Assessment as an interim step between RoSPA and HPC, which was very helpful. (Incidentally Don, I know some people have achieved higher than the high seventies, although not many.)
Of course, you could always take up motorcycling. I guarantee you'd never be bored!
Cheers
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Saturday 18th February 17:41
I used to be active in High Performance Club events until biking took over. I can recommend the Club; it would stretch your driving sustantially above IAM/RoSPA. Also, HPC has an utterly different culture from IAM/RoSPA car groups. Club events can be more like high level exploration of driving techniques.
Don said:
The IAM do offer the "Special Assessment". This isn't graded - you actually recieve a percentage score. I believe the highest awarded figure is in the high seventies - so if one is *bored* of regular IAM stuff one could always do the Special Assessment.
For those who've already done RoSPA Gold and wish to progress a little further, the IAM Special Assessment is worthwhile. It's a great shame that all IAM Observers don't have a go at it, because their observing would improve tremendously. I did the IAM Special Assessment as an interim step between RoSPA and HPC, which was very helpful. (Incidentally Don, I know some people have achieved higher than the high seventies, although not many.)
Of course, you could always take up motorcycling. I guarantee you'd never be bored!
Cheers
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Saturday 18th February 17:41
Mark_SV said:
For those who've already done RoSPA Gold and wish to progress a little further, the IAM Special Assessment is worthwhile. It's a great shame that all IAM Observers don't have a go at it, because their observing would improve tremendously. I did the IAM Special Assessment as an interim step between RoSPA and HPC, which was very helpful. (Incidentally Don, I know some people have achieved higher than the high seventies, although not many.
It would appear that opionions as to how IAM Special Assessment compares to RoADA Gold vary, as do opinions on the Special Assessment itself.
There is currently a discussion on the RoADA mailing list as to how the two compare and I repost (without permission, but identities protected) two recent posts.
correspondent1 said:
How does the IAM Special Assessment compare to RoADAR Gold? Have been thinking about giving it a go.
Hi XXXXX,
Another "night owl" or insomniac like myself.
Had to look up the test reports to see how they phrase things to give a more informed opinion.
As I said in my earlier post I took the "Special Assessment" (in June 2000 not long after it was introduced) before I joined Roada got 90% with which I was very pleased our then local IAM chairman recommended I join Roada as with that score should easily get a Gold grade which I did in August of the same year went straight in for the test & got a "Silver" my positioning was described as appropriate. Whilst on my SA it was "displayed a clear understanding of sensible & beneficial positioning to advantage well balanced though out" that could be down to taking the Roada test in a car had only brought previous day.
Re took the Roada test the following year after joining the local group the previous month had a couple of runs with an ex PC1 driver who initially said I was only just knocking on the door of Gold as required more "Polish" to my drive, so practised driving showing "an air of confidence" & swagger for want of a better word this was mainly achieved on my gear changes & entry speeds in the "twisty bits" Again got a Silver but this was due to a moments lack of concentration when
my attention was diverted in a busy town centre & I failed to notice a car emerging from a small side road & braked late (not too late though).
Once again re took the test the following August & got Gold.
In summary therefore would say the standards expected from Roada are higher than the IAM as a Roada Gold is described as "like a PC1 without the speed". Roada require a more polished professional approach whilst the SA is a percentage drive against the perfect driver. I wouldn't say that then or now am only 10% off being perfect as like everyone else have my good days & bad.
The commentary aspect of the SA is very challenging giving two 20 minute spells of uninterrupted flowing commentary isn't something I found particularly easy though with practice practise & even more practise it becomes less hard.
Good luck XXXXX & let me know how you get on.
... and the second one ...
correspondent2 said:
I've been RoADA Gold since 1994 and have taken the Special Assessment twice.
My first S.A. mark was 55%, because I "horlicksed" a manoeuvre. My second was in the low 90s.
I've discussed the marking of the SA at length with Trevor Dickenson, the IAM Staff Examiner for Region 2, with whom I did my second assessment.
He explained that the percentage is *not* calculated in the same way as for a police final drive, where one starts with 100% and loses points for errors. Instead, the examiner rates each aspect of the drive on a scale (I think 1 to 3) in exactly the same way as they do for a normal IAM test. The
computer at headquarters then translates that into the stock phrases used in the written report, and calculates the percentage. The stock phrases used are taken from a set maintained by IAM Fleet for their training reports to employers.
So my message is, ignore the percentage, and the report, apart from the examiner's comments at the very end.
But I still think the SA is worth doing if you're Gold because:
(a) It's a very cheap way of getting your driving assessed on a demanding route by a police driver who is hand picked from among normal IAM examiners;
and
(b) The feedback that I got (a 40 minute debrief over a coffee) was brilliant - and bore almost no relationship to the report.
So, make of it that you will.
[I could have simply provided links to the online versions of these posts but it would have destroyed the flow of this thread having to leave to read them. I apologise in advance for any upset that may be caused by reposting them.]
mefoster said:
I could have simply provided links to the online versions of these posts
You could ... ? Is the IAM Forum now more like PH then?
Funnily enough, Trevor Dickenson told me that an IAM Special Assessment should be "like a Class 1 drive without the speed". Ah well, just shows the Special Assessment and probably even RoSPA standards can differ from one region to another.
Having had various Class 1 demo drives, I don't believe for a minute that either RoSPA Gold or the IAM Special Assessment are remotely close to a police Class 1. In any case, "the speed" is a pretty essential part of achieving a Class 1!
Cracking post as it's something I've been pondering recently.
One question about the Cadence/HPC route, for example. Would you say you should've had some advanced training to do the Cadence course (they say an assesment is done prior to the full course)? If so, to what kind of level i.e. do you think you have to be a Gold RoSPA driver before you're good enough to do the Master Driver Course?
One question about the Cadence/HPC route, for example. Would you say you should've had some advanced training to do the Cadence course (they say an assesment is done prior to the full course)? If so, to what kind of level i.e. do you think you have to be a Gold RoSPA driver before you're good enough to do the Master Driver Course?
StressedDave said:
Not necessarily - it might take a bit more practice but you can develop your own style from the outset rather than converting from the IAM/RoADAR way of doing things.
Thanks Dave.
So do you think you could plunge straight into the Cadence Master course then?
I haven't done much instruction (RideDrive, several instructional track days). I know its impossible to judge my driving without the assesment, its just that the HPC stuff appeals more and I'd rather try to prepare to take on the Master Driver Course, if that's necessary e.g. getting involved with the local IAM group first.
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