Discussion
Hopefully you will be able to answer this very quickly for me.
I'm ever so slightly confused as to when to check the handbrake in the cokpit drill. I can justify doing it three ways, so which of the following is it (I'm assuming it must be one of them).
1)BEFORE starting the car, check the handbrake by releasing it and re-applying it (as part of the other checks obviously).
2) do it AFTER starting the car, release and reapply, to see if the light goes off and on.
3) both BEFORE AND AFTER you start the car (i.e. 2 checks), to first check it is working before starting, then after starting to see the lights on the panel work.
I do not know if this is a technical enough question, so please accept my apologies if it shouldn't be on here. I just thought that someone could probably help, rather than me ask the Observer again (sometimes you feel a bit foolish if you've asked before).
I'm ever so slightly confused as to when to check the handbrake in the cokpit drill. I can justify doing it three ways, so which of the following is it (I'm assuming it must be one of them).
1)BEFORE starting the car, check the handbrake by releasing it and re-applying it (as part of the other checks obviously).
2) do it AFTER starting the car, release and reapply, to see if the light goes off and on.
3) both BEFORE AND AFTER you start the car (i.e. 2 checks), to first check it is working before starting, then after starting to see the lights on the panel work.
I do not know if this is a technical enough question, so please accept my apologies if it shouldn't be on here. I just thought that someone could probably help, rather than me ask the Observer again (sometimes you feel a bit foolish if you've asked before).
The handbrake should be on when you are stationary. I do not remember having to do a handbrake test. You need to do a brake test though. At the start of the test I said to the examiner that I had driven to the meeting point so had already checked my brakes were working. I was told to ask the Observer as I set off if they wanted me to do a brake test. Each time they said "No".
I do one as a matter of course because I live half way up a hill and have to stop at the junction at the end of my road.
You can test your brakes on a run by applying the brakes gently shortly after you have pulled away. If all is well, then you may continue your journey. (Sorry to state the obvious
) I am a newbie, so no doubt others will have additional points to add.
>> Edited by EmmaP on Tuesday 31st January 12:51
I do one as a matter of course because I live half way up a hill and have to stop at the junction at the end of my road.
You can test your brakes on a run by applying the brakes gently shortly after you have pulled away. If all is well, then you may continue your journey. (Sorry to state the obvious
) I am a newbie, so no doubt others will have additional points to add. >> Edited by EmmaP on Tuesday 31st January 12:51
Fairly quickly, snipping a lot of the detail checks other than parking brake out ........
assuming all exterior and levels checks done....
Upon sitting in the vehicle the FIRST thing I do is check that handbrake is on.
after running through cockpit checks and starting engine.
Keeping both brake and clutch pedals pressed, release and reapply handbrake to ensure light goes out as it often doubles as handbrake on, other brake problem warning.
carry on with remainder of checks.
After moving brake check ensure vehicle runs freely in that all brakes have released.
No doubt someone will be along soon with the full cockpit drill, sorry bit rushed at the mo. If not will post later if you wish.
FiF
assuming all exterior and levels checks done....
Upon sitting in the vehicle the FIRST thing I do is check that handbrake is on.
after running through cockpit checks and starting engine.
Keeping both brake and clutch pedals pressed, release and reapply handbrake to ensure light goes out as it often doubles as handbrake on, other brake problem warning.
carry on with remainder of checks.
After moving brake check ensure vehicle runs freely in that all brakes have released.
No doubt someone will be along soon with the full cockpit drill, sorry bit rushed at the mo. If not will post later if you wish.
FiF
Someone'll be along shortly to burn me at the stake, but our examiners aren't to worried about the cockpit drill (we even had a few complaints that candidates were spending too long on it!) - although I do advise still doing one, as it adds to the 'polish' on the drive and starts the relationship with the examiner off on the right foot, but it should be brief!
There are as many ways to do it, as there are cockpits, my previous group used to recommend:
Make of that what you will!
I tend to recommend a mention of "checked the car this morning - tyres, lights, wipers, oil, water, petrol" Then a quick sweep from passenger mirror to drivers mirror via doors, seatbelts, switches, mirror, handbrake/neutral, steering, seats. Then foot on clutch, turn key to II, check correct lights come on, start up, check lights go out - battery receiving charge and oil is pressurising, L foot off clutch, R foot on footbrake, drop handbrake - light out, handbrake back on, say something about tested the brakes on the way here, and happy car is stopping in a straight line and I know the pedal pressure required to slow & stop the vehicle (this usually ticks the moving brake test box without having to do it) - ready to go. 45 seconds or less!
Like I said, prepared to be burned for heresy against one of the many dogmae, but works for me & several others who have used it!
>> Edited by Nick_Chim on Tuesday 31st January 19:49
There are as many ways to do it, as there are cockpits, my previous group used to recommend:
Derby Group said:
P O W E R
P – Petrol – enough for the journey
O – Oil checked
W – Water checked
E – Electrics – all lights checked
R – Rubber – all tyres correct depth and correct pressure – windscreen wipers working efficiently
Secure – check handbrake is applied and doors secure
Seat – Check driver’s seat adjustment for comfort and accessibility to controls
Panel – Check that all dials are at rest
Mirrors – All adjusted correctly
Seatbelts – On – and functioning correctly
Engine – Depress clutch and check gear lever in neutral. With clutch still depressed, start engine
Panel – Check lights are showing as they should
Brake – One firm application of the pedal and sustain this pressure for a few seconds to ensure that there is no resistance
Moving off – Mirror check left and right, deep shoulder checks left and right. As pulling away, check hand brake warning light has extinguished
Moving brake test – Bring down the speed from about 20mph to 10mph to establish that the brakes are working firmly and evenly on all four road wheels
The old test form said:
Starting off
H/B Dr Se Cl GL St Cl Aux PC Mi S/B+R Br Mi Gr Mi Sh(L+R) H/B+C+Acc Moving Brake Test Slow Wrong place Nil
Make of that what you will!
I tend to recommend a mention of "checked the car this morning - tyres, lights, wipers, oil, water, petrol" Then a quick sweep from passenger mirror to drivers mirror via doors, seatbelts, switches, mirror, handbrake/neutral, steering, seats. Then foot on clutch, turn key to II, check correct lights come on, start up, check lights go out - battery receiving charge and oil is pressurising, L foot off clutch, R foot on footbrake, drop handbrake - light out, handbrake back on, say something about tested the brakes on the way here, and happy car is stopping in a straight line and I know the pedal pressure required to slow & stop the vehicle (this usually ticks the moving brake test box without having to do it) - ready to go. 45 seconds or less!
Like I said, prepared to be burned for heresy against one of the many dogmae, but works for me & several others who have used it!
>> Edited by Nick_Chim on Tuesday 31st January 19:49
In principle not going to disagree with Nick except I once got fingers wrapped for not putting on seat belt until after starting engine.
On the basis that one might need to get out quickly in case of a problem. :ahem: We will not go there!
Personally I thought the bloke was being a bit picky, but if I had to suffer from being picked on then no reason why the compliment shouldn't be returned.
Regardless no burning at the stake from me.
On the basis that one might need to get out quickly in case of a problem. :ahem: We will not go there!
Personally I thought the bloke was being a bit picky, but if I had to suffer from being picked on then no reason why the compliment shouldn't be returned.
Regardless no burning at the stake from me.
Apologies for butting in having not posted on the advance driving forum before (although I have done a lot of reading) but I was interested in FiF comment re starting the engine before putting the seatbelt on.....I have to say that has always been my procedure (I have to admit to not having done any advanced training 
) for no other reason that it allows a few more seconds for oil to circulate round the engine before moving off....I guess in much the same way that I start my bike up before putting on my helmet and gloves, for much the same reason, particularly if the have been standing overnight or for a day or so.....would this be justification for such action?
) for no other reason that it allows a few more seconds for oil to circulate round the engine before moving off....I guess in much the same way that I start my bike up before putting on my helmet and gloves, for much the same reason, particularly if the have been standing overnight or for a day or so.....would this be justification for such action?Nick_Chim said:
Brake – One firm application of the pedal and sustain this pressure for a few seconds to ensure that there is no resistance.
Eh? Would we prefer the pedal to go down to the floor unhindered by hydraulic pressure?
...or have I misunderstood something?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
If I've read and understood correctly, the cockpit drill is briefly as follows:
Sit in the car (obviously).
Check the handbrake is on (no need to release and re-apply).
Check the gear lever is in neutral.
Check doors secure.
Check mirrors set correctly.
Check seats set correctly.
Depress clutch , foot on brake, start the car, release footbrake.
Check that the dash lights go out/stay on as appropriate.
Apply pressure to footbrake for a few seconds to see if it is okay.
Release and re-apply handbrake to see if okay and lights working.
Put seat belt on.
Do mirror checks and set off.
Two very quick points.
Firstly, my son has just read this, and said that it is a lot to do, just to go and do the shopping. Please excuse me while I go get the hairbrush.
Secondly, my observer has said about the seat bealt that he recommends it is put on last. He doesn't really worry about the engine bursting into flames, but he said that why bother putting it on until you know that the car has started, and that you will be driving it.
Thank you all once again, as I think it is much clearer now.
Sit in the car (obviously).
Check the handbrake is on (no need to release and re-apply).
Check the gear lever is in neutral.
Check doors secure.
Check mirrors set correctly.
Check seats set correctly.
Depress clutch , foot on brake, start the car, release footbrake.
Check that the dash lights go out/stay on as appropriate.
Apply pressure to footbrake for a few seconds to see if it is okay.
Release and re-apply handbrake to see if okay and lights working.
Put seat belt on.
Do mirror checks and set off.
Two very quick points.
Firstly, my son has just read this, and said that it is a lot to do, just to go and do the shopping. Please excuse me while I go get the hairbrush.
Secondly, my observer has said about the seat bealt that he recommends it is put on last. He doesn't really worry about the engine bursting into flames, but he said that why bother putting it on until you know that the car has started, and that you will be driving it.
Thank you all once again, as I think it is much clearer now.
Lady Godiva said:
Depress clutch , foot on brake, start the car, release footbrake.
Check that the dash lights go out/stay on as appropriate.
I would switch these two around. Seems like everything else is in order though.
Lady Godiva said:
Two very quick points.
Firstly, my son has just read this, and said that it is a lot to do, just to go and do the shopping. Please excuse me while I go get the hairbrush.
Lady Godiva said:
Secondly, my observer has said about the seat bealt that he recommends it is put on last. He doesn't really worry about the engine bursting into flames, but he said that why bother putting it on until you know that the car has started, and that you will be driving it.
I put my seat belt on first as a matter of course.
I must confess that I used to put it on after the cockpit drill when I was being observed. Oh dear! A bad habit that I have just realized.Emma - I'm not sure what you mean when you say switch them around. It's probably me, but could you spell it out (just those two lines if it's not too much trouble).
Omega - yes, that would be very stupid of me, if I were to check that the mirrors are okay, and I then adjusted the seats after. Point taken.
Omega - yes, that would be very stupid of me, if I were to check that the mirrors are okay, and I then adjusted the seats after. Point taken.
TripleS said:
Brake – One firm application of the pedal and sustain this pressure for a few seconds to ensure that there is no resistance.
Eh? Would we prefer the pedal to go down to the floor unhindered by hydraulic pressure?
...or have I misunderstood something?
that's pasted directly out of the guidance we used for years I guess they are getting at checking that there is no jam or foul on the intial action of the pedal - but could be worded better as you certainly do want pressure there as the pads bite.... Actually it's one of those things that's messy to describe, but you certainly know if it's 'wrong'.
FiF - I did indeed miss seatbelts off my patter - but then again, it's traditional to miss something when demonstating the cockpit drill, to ensure people are paying attention....
All - you could of course take the Morecombe & Wise approach - all the right items, not neccessarily in the right order
Lady Godiva said:
Emma - I'm not sure what you mean when you say switch them around. It's probably me, but could you spell it out (just those two lines if it's not too much trouble).
No trouble at all. My fault for not being very clear. What I meant to say was that I, personally, would first 'Check that the dash lights go out/stay on as appropriate' then second, 'depress clutch, foot on brake, start the car, release footbrake'. Admittedly I think that I depress clutch, after checking gear is in neutral, start the car, select first or reverse, press the brake pedal, release handbrake then release clutch.
Flippin' 'eck, it is tricky thinking this stuff through when you aren't actually sat in a car.
EmmaP said:
Emma - I'm not sure what you mean when you say switch them around. It's probably me, but could you spell it out (just those two lines if it's not too much trouble).
No trouble at all. My fault for not being very clear. What I meant to say was that I, personally, would first 'Check that the dash lights go out/stay on as appropriate' then second, 'depress clutch, foot on brake, start the car, release footbrake'. Admittedly I think that I depress clutch, after checking gear is in neutral, start the car, select first or reverse, press the brake pedal, release handbrake then release clutch.
Flippin' 'eck, it is tricky thinking this stuff through when you aren't actually sat in a car.
Seems like your not expexted to actually think about driving!!!!
CombeMarshal said:
I'm going to state the obvious!!
You should check the hand brake when you park the car, It's not as if someone will break into your car, with out causing so much as a scratch, release the hand brake and then lock your car back up, Or do you belive in poltergeist!!
Just because you had set the parking brake when you left the car it does not necessarily guarantee that it will still be set when you return to it. What is to say that the ratchet mechanism hasn't failed, or maybe, dare I say, you didn't quite put on as well as you tought? There is nothing to be lost by checking it and everything to gain.
xxplod said:
Definately keep brief. Very easy to become tedious.
The Bores: "Errrr! So, er, what are we driving these days then?"
Agreed. I try to get my Associates to perform the various introductions and checks in about ten seconds each.
A cockpit drill - with explanation - should take less than ten seconds to do.
Introducing the car - ten seconds.
External checks might take a little longer if the examiner would like to go through them with the Associate.
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