Using commentary to help you with the System
Discussion
I've written this post in response to Lady Godiva's thread, so I hope it's helpful. Once you've digested the System and got to grips with the timing of the Phases, it should work for you. The system should genuinely help you in your everyday driving or riding.
With the exception of the Information phase, you generally consider each Phase once in turn on the approach to a hazard. You need time and space to do this. This means the System disciplines you to plan ahead. Planning far ahead should help you feel unhurried whilst driving, dealing with hazards early and with confidence.
You can use commentary to help you with this, by working through each phase of the System. For example:
"In the distance I can see a blind left-hand bend. I'll be Positioning towards the centre line for the bend. I will be matching my Speed to the Limit Point, slowing down until the right-hand hedge stops moving towards me. Changing down a Gear for this speed. Using the Accelerator to balance the vehicle. The right-hand hedge is starting to move away, so I'm accelerating firmly for the first third of the distance before the next bend … "
You can use this sort of commentary to help you get to grips with the System and thereby plan well ahead. With practice, it should help you make the System work for you, so that you genuinely feel it helps you drive well.
I trust that others who've observed, plus real professionals like StressedDave, will be able to add their words of wisdom.
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Tuesday 24th January 20:06
With the exception of the Information phase, you generally consider each Phase once in turn on the approach to a hazard. You need time and space to do this. This means the System disciplines you to plan ahead. Planning far ahead should help you feel unhurried whilst driving, dealing with hazards early and with confidence.
You can use commentary to help you with this, by working through each phase of the System. For example:
"In the distance I can see a blind left-hand bend. I'll be Positioning towards the centre line for the bend. I will be matching my Speed to the Limit Point, slowing down until the right-hand hedge stops moving towards me. Changing down a Gear for this speed. Using the Accelerator to balance the vehicle. The right-hand hedge is starting to move away, so I'm accelerating firmly for the first third of the distance before the next bend … "
You can use this sort of commentary to help you get to grips with the System and thereby plan well ahead. With practice, it should help you make the System work for you, so that you genuinely feel it helps you drive well.
I trust that others who've observed, plus real professionals like StressedDave, will be able to add their words of wisdom.
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Tuesday 24th January 20:06
IME, commentary is one of those things that is very difficult to do well and for the inexperienced and it will intially detract from the drive if they try to cover too much.
I would suggest that a good place to start is "Road signs and Paint". Just by making a verbal note of every sign that gives either a warning, a restriction or a positive instruction and every change in paint (e.g. centre line changing to hazard line) you will immediately begin to see how much you have previously been missing.
Try to note what you see, what it means and what you're going to do about it. Once comfortable with signs and paint add a little more. Maybe physical features such as bends, crests and junctions. Then later add other road users. Pretty soon you'll be covering the whole scene in front of you and hopefully, you'll be practiced enough to keep the commentary ahead of the car.
I would suggest that a good place to start is "Road signs and Paint". Just by making a verbal note of every sign that gives either a warning, a restriction or a positive instruction and every change in paint (e.g. centre line changing to hazard line) you will immediately begin to see how much you have previously been missing.
Try to note what you see, what it means and what you're going to do about it. Once comfortable with signs and paint add a little more. Maybe physical features such as bends, crests and junctions. Then later add other road users. Pretty soon you'll be covering the whole scene in front of you and hopefully, you'll be practiced enough to keep the commentary ahead of the car.
Mark's post is a great example of a full flowing commentary, and possibly an opportunity to expound my theory of the 3 stages of commentry:
1. Shopping List
Spotting & calling of things in turn - "car towards, white line against, dog on lead, sign for bend to the right... etc. etc."
2. So I'm....
Spotting & calling things, and what you are doing about it "parked car, so I'm checking the mirror and moving out towards the white line..."
3. Linked together (full flowing)
Prioritising and linking together the events, hazards and what you are doing about them into a flowing and coherent commentary - along the lines of Mark's post above.
In my experience, most Associates don't get much beyond 2. observers ought to be able to develop to 3 with practice, but it does take practice - and then you go out with a Police Class I and they make you realise that they are at level 4 !!
I therefore find it useful to get Associates to keep it a little simpler and say the elements of the system as they do them - eg. Information (mirror & signal), Position, Speed-speed-speed, (off brake) Gear, Accelerate.
discuss....
1. Shopping List
Spotting & calling of things in turn - "car towards, white line against, dog on lead, sign for bend to the right... etc. etc."
2. So I'm....
Spotting & calling things, and what you are doing about it "parked car, so I'm checking the mirror and moving out towards the white line..."
3. Linked together (full flowing)
Prioritising and linking together the events, hazards and what you are doing about them into a flowing and coherent commentary - along the lines of Mark's post above.
In my experience, most Associates don't get much beyond 2. observers ought to be able to develop to 3 with practice, but it does take practice - and then you go out with a Police Class I and they make you realise that they are at level 4 !!
I therefore find it useful to get Associates to keep it a little simpler and say the elements of the system as they do them - eg. Information (mirror & signal), Position, Speed-speed-speed, (off brake) Gear, Accelerate.
discuss....
Mark_SV said:
"In the distance I can see a blind left-hand bend. I'll be Positioning towards the centre line for the bend.
Another useful tip for associates is to explain mirror use in this way:
Hazards have a surname - Mirror
System has a first name Mirror
So a bend is, "bend mirror", system is " near side mirror, position to the n/s" etc.
OK, seeing as Mark asked nicely, my thoughts:
1. Commentary is a personal thing, by which I mean that although it's lovely to break it down into the three levels (and I often do the same), at the end of the day you don't want to be forcing somebody to follow some sort of 'script' in their driving. My style of commentary is vastly different to the bosses', not least because I managed to avoid IAM and RoADA, while he spent 20 years at Hendon. The reason you get 'level 4' from the Class I's is that they've developed their own style over the years and had plenty of practice.
2. Way too much emphasis on mirrors - a lot of people use peripheral vision to work their mirror checks, i.e. a change in the view from peripheral vision triggers the mirror check itself. If you're forcing an associate to physically check their mirrors on such a regular basis you're limiting the amount of processing power they can use to observe out front where it's most important and apply the system to their view. I'm a great believer in teaching little but feeding back lots - letting people develop their own mental system to apply the System is far, far more important than ramming Roadcraft home at every possible opportunity.
3. Do commentary from the passenger seat. As an instructor I rarely if ever have dual controls to play with so I have to do it all with my voice (and yes, I'm generally hoarse by the end of the day). It releases some of the processing burden on the Associate and gives them time to develop the other skills necessary.
Remember Advanced Driving is an art and not a science. There is no universal formula that can be applied to every possible situation and give the appropriate outcome. Rather than teaching people to slavishly follow the system, you should be concentrating on getting them to think about what they should do.
1. Commentary is a personal thing, by which I mean that although it's lovely to break it down into the three levels (and I often do the same), at the end of the day you don't want to be forcing somebody to follow some sort of 'script' in their driving. My style of commentary is vastly different to the bosses', not least because I managed to avoid IAM and RoADA, while he spent 20 years at Hendon. The reason you get 'level 4' from the Class I's is that they've developed their own style over the years and had plenty of practice.
2. Way too much emphasis on mirrors - a lot of people use peripheral vision to work their mirror checks, i.e. a change in the view from peripheral vision triggers the mirror check itself. If you're forcing an associate to physically check their mirrors on such a regular basis you're limiting the amount of processing power they can use to observe out front where it's most important and apply the system to their view. I'm a great believer in teaching little but feeding back lots - letting people develop their own mental system to apply the System is far, far more important than ramming Roadcraft home at every possible opportunity.
3. Do commentary from the passenger seat. As an instructor I rarely if ever have dual controls to play with so I have to do it all with my voice (and yes, I'm generally hoarse by the end of the day). It releases some of the processing burden on the Associate and gives them time to develop the other skills necessary.
Remember Advanced Driving is an art and not a science. There is no universal formula that can be applied to every possible situation and give the appropriate outcome. Rather than teaching people to slavishly follow the system, you should be concentrating on getting them to think about what they should do.
omegac said:
Way too much emphasis on mirrors
Could you expand on this point for me a bit, ie what can be done without mirrors and what can't? I assume changes in speed or direction are always prefixed by mirrors, do you mean in routine, straight line driving?
I have found that it is usually better to err on the side of excess when it comes to both using the mirrors and commenting on the fact that you have used your mirrors.
Very few people (prior to the training) properly include them in their scanning process. Whilst this sounds tremendously formal and in practice it is not scanning works like this:
Bonnet to Horizon (Mirror)
Horizon to Bonnet
Bonnet to nearside (Nearside mirror)
Nearside mirror to bonnet
Bonnet to offside (Offside Mirror)
Offside to Bonnet.
..
Bonnet to Horizon (Mirror)
etc etc
In practice this consists of constantly adjusting your vision such that you actively scan your entire surroundings taking in the mirrors regularly and particularly prior to changes in speed or direction.
The technique is designed to prevent "Startled Rabbit" syndrome wherein the driver stares at the danger. If you concentrate on one hazard to the exclusion of developing ones which may take priority then this can lead to failures in observation and, hence, accidents.
Another part of this theory is that where the eye goes, the hands will follow and, hence, steer the car. So in the event of a developing problem one wants to be looking at the escape route NOT at the fast approaching hard unyielding thing.
Whilst I make the Scanning technique sound terribly formal - it really, really isn't. Its just a way of kick-starting the driver's natural observation skills. By the time an Advanced Driver passes their test "scanning" is natural and is adjusted to the road conditions and requirements continually and efficiently.
Hope this helps.
omegac said:
Way too much emphasis on mirrors
Could you expand on this point for me a bit, ie what can be done without mirrors and what can't? I assume changes in speed or direction are always prefixed by mirrors, do you mean in routine, straight line driving?
StressedDave said:
Remember Advanced Driving is an art and not a science. There is no universal formula that can be applied to every possible situation and give the appropriate outcome. Rather than teaching people to slavishly follow the system, you should be concentrating on getting them to think about what they should do.
OK, with that in mind, start thinking about your driving more and less about what Roadcraft says you should be doing. Now, notwithstanding inverse alien abduction (i.e. suddenly appearing out of nowhere), is the situation around you really going to change every couple of seconds? The continual sweeping process Don suggests means that you are continually checking your mirrors. This costs a fair few pence of your £10 of concentration which can often be better spent elsewhere on the drive. If you start relying on your peripheral vision (Man evolved as a hunter and as a result your attention is drawn by a changing picture rather than continually staring as something) to tell you when the situation changes. As an example, next time you're stopped at a junction waiting for a gap, don't start at the traffic but look away and then back. You'll get a far better evaluation of traffic speed as a result.
The rest is Roadcraft - e.g. and in Commentary mode:
'There is nobody behind me (1st mirror check). The junction on the left is clear (No need for a mirror check). Driveways on the right are clear (No need for a mirror check). There is a left bend ahead. Can't see round it and am slowing down (no need for a mirror check - where can anyone come from? - all the danger is ahead - use all your concentration on that).'
That's what I mean about spending too much time on your mirrors. Use the mirrors when there is a need to do so, not because you think you have to.
StressedDave said:
That's what I mean about spending too much time on your mirrors. Use the mirrors when there is a need to do so, not because you think you have to.
I agree with Herr Stressed. You should (IMHO) always keep a mental map of what is around you as you drive - there is no real need to look (in the mirrors) specifically as peripheral vision (and the mirrors are in that) allows you to have an awareness as other vehicles come into, leave or move within the mental map. Clearly there are times when it is possible that something may have entered the map at a critical point and specific mirror check (or even a look over the shoulder) makes sense (e.g. in town to avoid taking out a cyclist or biker when turning).
I don't like rigourous procedures for driving - using your brain and adapting is more important (again, IMHO) than mindlessly following some set of rules that someone else has defined.
StressedDave said:
OK, seeing as Mark asked nicely, my thoughts:
Remember Advanced Driving is an art and not a science. There is no universal formula that can be applied to every possible situation and give the appropriate outcome. Rather than teaching people to slavishly follow the system, you should be concentrating on getting them to think about what they should do.
If I may say so I think that makes sense.
People should be helped to develop their own system, one that works reliably for them and enables them to get the best result, rather than being pushed into adopting THE SYSTEM. Of course there should be a good deal of compatibility between THE SYSTEM and the system used by an individual, but getting a good result with their system is what really matters.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
StressedDave said:
Use the mirrors when there is a need to do so, not because you think you have to.
A round of applause for that if I may.
On the other hand, does this meet the objective of knowing what is behind you at all times? It seems to me it will not, but does that really matter? So long as you use the mirrors effectively before changing course or speed, I'm inclined to think it does not matter.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
[quote=StressedDave]
So long as you use the mirrors effectively before changing course or speed, I'm inclined to think it does not matter.
Unless something sudden happens, then knowing what is behind may change how you respond to it, ie slamming on the brakes v looking for an escape route, mounting the kerb etc.
omegac said:
[quote=StressedDave]
So long as you use the mirrors effectively before changing course or speed, I'm inclined to think it does not matter.
Unless something sudden happens, then knowing what is behind may change how you respond to it, ie slamming on the brakes v looking for an escape route, mounting the kerb etc.
I must be very lucky, as I don't seem to find things happening suddenly, but you make a fair point, which I shall bear in mind.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
I must be very lucky, as I don't seem to find things happening suddenly, but you make a fair point, which I shall bear in mind.
Maybe it depends on milage travelled, speeds travelled at, roads used etc, but I am sure eventually something will happen "suddenly" to every motorist and having an awareness of what is behind could dictate your response.
StressedDave said:
That's what I mean about spending too much time on your mirrors. Use the mirrors when there is a need to do so, not because you think you have to.
I think I agree with that. The System is, however, quite black and white when it comes to evaluating any hazard. Starting with the Information phase - which includes mirrors.
I find most Associates when they first join basically do not use their mirrors enough. The Scanning process encourages mirror use. As they become proficient with scanning and the process becomes less formal then I think the emphasis on mirrors does become less - and, quite possibly, in line with what you're saying.
A point about peripheral vision: Peripheral vision in humans is absolutely brilliant at detecting movement which makes it great for hazards emerging from behind or side roads that are not directly in front of you.
But it is *rubbish* at measuring distance. For that you need a sharp image (with both eyes of course). At the centre of the human retina is a tiny spot called the Fovea which is the only truly sharp part of human vision. The rest is simply "made up" by the brain. The way to ensure you are using the sharpest bit of your vision is to look directly at something.
I have always understood scanning and mirror use to capitalise on this "looking directly" requirement/technique. One should use it to build up the 3D mental image of everything around the vehicle.
Great, nice to see some good advice from all corners.
Lets call "mirror" a "rear observation" (to be inclusive to bikers).
In my experience, some Associates (including me) needed to develop rear observation when starting advanced training. This doesn't mean it should be over corrected. As Dave says, too much emphasis can be put onto rear observations, detracting from the mental space left to look at what's in front of you.
Indeed, rear observations cost more than just mental space on the bike. In order to see a mirror, you have to physically move your head. On most sportsbikes, you have to move your elbow too, so that it doesn't block the view. Movement on a bike influences its direction, so rear observations are done thoughtfully.
(Incidentally, if you ever come up behind a biker and see no head or elbow movement, the biker probably doesn't know you're there. If you do see movement, all you can guarantee is that the rider's seen a blurred shape in his or her vibrating mirror. If it's a Ducati, it's only a matter of time before the mirror falls off, so beware debris
)
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Friday 27th January 20:00
Lets call "mirror" a "rear observation" (to be inclusive to bikers).
Don said:Is it? Or does it mean consider a mirror check? Roadcraft, and police instructors generally, say that the System should be applied flexibly. Additionally, Motorcycle Roadcraft describes "consider a rear observation" as an extra kind of phase between Gear and Acceleration.
The System is, however, quite black and white when it comes to evaluating any hazard. Starting with the Information phase - which includes mirrors.
In my experience, some Associates (including me) needed to develop rear observation when starting advanced training. This doesn't mean it should be over corrected. As Dave says, too much emphasis can be put onto rear observations, detracting from the mental space left to look at what's in front of you.
Indeed, rear observations cost more than just mental space on the bike. In order to see a mirror, you have to physically move your head. On most sportsbikes, you have to move your elbow too, so that it doesn't block the view. Movement on a bike influences its direction, so rear observations are done thoughtfully.
(Incidentally, if you ever come up behind a biker and see no head or elbow movement, the biker probably doesn't know you're there. If you do see movement, all you can guarantee is that the rider's seen a blurred shape in his or her vibrating mirror. If it's a Ducati, it's only a matter of time before the mirror falls off, so beware debris
) >> Edited by Mark_SV on Friday 27th January 20:00
Points taken - an over exuberance with the mirrors to the exclusion of what's up front would be wrong too. Its just that I have found, so far - in my limited experience, that encouraging *more* mirror use - and particularly mirror use in the places that the System dictates only adds to the observational skills of the aspiring Associate and has not, so far - in my limited experience, yet seen to be the wrong advice for a particular individual.
Not that its impossible by any stretch of the imagination. Its just I haven't really seen an overuse of the mirrors yet!
As you say, of course, the System is meant to be applied with thought and judgement rather than as an inflexible process - given that the same approach is given to mirror use all should be well.
Not that its impossible by any stretch of the imagination. Its just I haven't really seen an overuse of the mirrors yet!
As you say, of course, the System is meant to be applied with thought and judgement rather than as an inflexible process - given that the same approach is given to mirror use all should be well.
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