Which book to read next? (re: Advanced Driving)

[Kinky]

What would people suggest be a good read, regarding advanced driving styles, techniques and skills.

I've obviously done the Roadcraft book over and over and over (and over) again.

I'd prefer suggestions that are easily available. I know there's plenty of choice out there, but I'd rather a suggestion from a fellow PH'er as opposed to what the marketing/PR spiel tell me.

Many thanks in advance,

K

[mph999]

Persoanally, wouldn't bother with any other books, Roadcraft is the book.

I would recommend watching the roadcraft video though.

Martin

[Kinky]

Martin,

Believe it or not I've actually worn out the Roadcraft video - so much so I had to chuck it out

K

[Don]

Find a book called "Expert Driving" - by Paul Ripley. It made a good read...

[BOF]

Have a look at some of the posts on

www.traffic-answers.com/forum/index.php

Some very informative posts by serving Class 1 drivers.

BOF.

[mefoster]

If you can find one, pick up a copy of "Expert Driving The Police Way" by John Miles. I can also recommend "Car Driving as an Art" by S.C.H Davis. The latter could perhaps be seen as 'old' but the principles it describes are still pretty relevant.

[Andrew Noakes]

mefoster said:

I can also recommend "Car Driving as an Art" by S.C.H Davis.

I've got that. It is old fashioned, but there's some sound advice in there.

[Rufus]

Currently reading Don Palmers driving handbook from his website... covers the whole aspects of being a better driver. lots of stuff about attitude and stuff

[StressedDave]

It might be a little off-tangent, but John Whitmore's book on Performance Coaching is really useful. There are no earth-shatteringly new techniques that separate the advanced drivers from the rest - it's [u]all[/u] about attitude and a book that helps you understand the best way of learning the mental processes is a must.

[7db]

Coaching For Performance: Growing People, Performance and Purpose
Sir John Whitmore ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&tag=turlstreet-21&camp=1634&creative=6738&path=ASIN%2F1857883039


>> Edited by 7db on Wednesday 11th January 21:32

[StressedDave]

That's the one

[Kinky]

Blimey - plenty to choose from.

I had seen references and partial discussions on other threads on various books - but this captures it all nicely.

The one that appeals to me immediately is John Whitmore's book, but having said that, Don (he who walks on water) suggested Ripleys Expert Driving book.

So it looks like I've got 2 to get on with - and I'll get the rest (new years resolution) as I complete each one.

Thanks everyone - valuable input for me, and I'm sure others too.

Regards,

K

[7db]

Paul Ripley's book:-
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&tag=turlstreet-21&camp=1634&creative=6738&path=ASIN%2F0716030098%2F
£6.99

John Miles:-
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&tag=turlstreet-21&camp=1634&creative=6738&path=ASIN%2F0432093907%2F
Looks out of print to me.

[RobM77]

My advanced driving knowledge is from the track rather than the road, and as such I make an effort to try and drive with IAM and RoSPA drivers whenever possible to pick up road driving tips. Having sat with a fair few now, I'd firstly reccomend the advanced driving books such as roadcraft that you've read, but then second to that I'd definitely reccomend some knowledge of car control and track theory. Virtually all advanced road drivers I've sat with to date seem to lack any sense of car control. It'll make you safer and further under the limit in normal road driving, and could in fact save your life one day. Essentially I'm talking about smoothness and balance.

[RobM77]

There's no single book that I've seen that covers all the bases on this, but I would reccomend the video 'Drive to Win' - available from Duke Video.

[Mark_SV]

If you can ever find a second hand copy, then The Porsche Driving Book by John Lyon and Martin Beck-Burridge covers both roadcraft and vehicle handling excellently (ISBN 0-9513737-06). Paul Ripley's Expert Driving covers both too (ISBN 0-7160-3009-8).

Given the differences between road and track driving, it's worth tracking down a book that covers vehicle dynamics and handling specifically in relation to road driving.

I second Dave's recommendation about Sir John Whitmore. He wrote a book called Superdriver about the mental side of performance driving, which very occasionally crops up second hand (ISBN 0-87938-315-1). Gordon Sharp's Human Aspects of Police Driving might interest too (ISBN 1 901568 00 8).

Out of all the books currently in-print, Paul Ripley's Expert Driving is the one I personally would read second after Roadcraft.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[mefoster]

Another one that springs to mind is "High Performance Driving For You" by Tom Wisdom. Apart from being good advice it also gives some interesting background on the birth of HPC.

[RobM77]

Mark_SV said:

Given the differences between road and track driving, it's worth tracking down a book that covers vehicle dynamics and handling specifically in relation to road driving.

Yes, it is worth bearing in mind that road driving and track driving are completely different. However, I've read a few different roadcraft style books, and none of them seem to go into the required depth to truly explain how cars handle and why. I believe that a knowledge of this isn't primary to safe advanced road driving, but could be the last piece of the puzzle towards truly fluid and balanced road driving. I've driven with three RoSPA 'gold' drivers now - I kept quiet, but neither of them seemed to show any understanding of car handling at all in the way that they drove. I've also spoken with a police class 1 driver some time ago, and his knowledge of road driving was amazing, but sadly his knowledge of car dynamics was very rudimentary. Ergo, most road books and courses can only take you so far.

John Lyons really knows his stuff, and was a successful racer in the past. I do remember reading bits of his Porsche driving book, and remember them to be very good at explaining the sorts of things I'm talking about, although very specific to Porsches of course, but there was a lot of generic stuff in there that a driver of any car could learn from.

I'm not an advanced road driver, but these are just some thoughts that hopefully will be of help.

[StressedDave]

RobM77 said:

Yes, it is worth bearing in mind that road driving and track driving are completely different. However, I've read a few different roadcraft style books, and none of them seem to go into the required depth to truly explain how cars handle and why.

Nope, I'd disagree with you totally there - the only difference is the level of lateral acceleration usually being generated. As for why it isn't in there - vehicle dynamics is quite an in depth science (I've been teaching it to the Police for more than a few years - mainly accident investigators but more than a few driving school bods have been known to sneak into the back) and is not that easily understood - try explaining roll moment distribution, shock speed histograms and roll centres to most people and you can see their eyes literally glaze over.

RobM77 said:

I believe that a knowledge of this isn't primary to safe advanced road driving, but could be the last piece of the puzzle towards truly fluid and balanced road driving. I've driven with three RoSPA 'gold' drivers now - I kept quiet, but neither of them seemed to show any understanding of car handling at all in the way that they drove. I've also spoken with a police class 1 driver some time ago, and his knowledge of road driving was amazing, but sadly his knowledge of car dynamics was very rudimentary. Ergo, most road books and courses can only take you so far.

Hear hear, although it's important not to get bogged down in the minutiae - great driving is still more art than science and I'd rather drive with someone with a well developed arse and inner ear than a ride and handling engineer with plenty of knowledge but little finesse or ability (I once went for a job at Lotus and was told that if I got the job I'd have to learn to be really rough with a car).

RobM77 said:

John Lyons really knows his stuff, and was a successful racer in the past. I do remember reading bits of his Porsche driving book, and remember them to be very good at explaining the sorts of things I'm talking about, although very specific to Porsches of course, but there was a lot of generic stuff in there that a driver of any car could learn from. I'm not an advanced road driver, but these are just some thoughts that hopefully will be of help.

I'm pretty sure Martin Beck-Burridge wrote most of those bits, although the book is a corker.

[Jungles]

The one reading material which improved my driving the most is the Driving Handbook by Don Palmer:
www.donpalmer.co.uk
(He also has another worthwhile on-line book called Creative Car Control. Both can be found in the right-hand menu on the abovementioned webpage.)

For performance-oriented techniques:
Bob Bondurant on High Performance Driving (by Bob Bondurant and John Blakemore)
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0760306036/qid=1137278715/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1563187-4690339?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

>> Edited by Jungles on Saturday 14th January 22:47