Observation and Sat Nav
Discussion
I'm sure most of us would agree that a large part of skillful advanced driving is down to observation and being able to anticipate conditions ahead (and safely react appropriately to them).
I have a sat nav unit that provides a very good '3D' view of the route ahead which I find provides useful information as to upcoming junctions and hazards, as well as giving an indication of the road direction (bends, straights etc.) which is useful in planning overtakes.
Whilst it is important that everyone learns the necessary observational skills without the assistance of electronic aids (since sat nav isn't guaranteed to be present), does anyone know what the view of the advanced driving organisations in the use of sat nav as means to increasing the amount of information available with regards to the road ahead? What would be the attitude towards using the information during an observed drive and/or test?
My opinion is that an advanced driver will use all available cues and clues to create a picture of the driving environment, so if a sat nav screen provides more information (and it can be viewed safely) then it should be used.
Opinions?
I have a sat nav unit that provides a very good '3D' view of the route ahead which I find provides useful information as to upcoming junctions and hazards, as well as giving an indication of the road direction (bends, straights etc.) which is useful in planning overtakes.
Whilst it is important that everyone learns the necessary observational skills without the assistance of electronic aids (since sat nav isn't guaranteed to be present), does anyone know what the view of the advanced driving organisations in the use of sat nav as means to increasing the amount of information available with regards to the road ahead? What would be the attitude towards using the information during an observed drive and/or test?
My opinion is that an advanced driver will use all available cues and clues to create a picture of the driving environment, so if a sat nav screen provides more information (and it can be viewed safely) then it should be used.
Opinions?
volvos70t5 said:I agree wholeheartedly with you; I was more interested in the attitude to supplementing the core observation areas with the information from sat nav.
What happens when you jump out of car 1 and into car 2 and suddenly yuor driver aids aren't available? It might be better to concentrate on the core areas without relying too heavily, if at all, on such aids.
Just my 2p.
I use my satnav as an additional observation aid. I think it's great but recognise that its impact on driving can be both positive and negative.
It's great for building up a picture of how tight a corner is going to be, and whether there are any nasties in the road design. (Although note that height is usually lacking, so dips and crests will not be warned).
On the other hand, it can distract from the driving task, as well as giving false confidence. Roads change from the map that you have, and tractors hiding round corners aren't marked.
On balance, I think they are a useful addition to the observation arsenal.
It's great for building up a picture of how tight a corner is going to be, and whether there are any nasties in the road design. (Although note that height is usually lacking, so dips and crests will not be warned).
On the other hand, it can distract from the driving task, as well as giving false confidence. Roads change from the map that you have, and tractors hiding round corners aren't marked.
On balance, I think they are a useful addition to the observation arsenal.
Interesting. I've never used sat nav but the concept of using it to read the road ahead reminds of my long lost youth when I did road rallies. The navigator would "read" the road from an Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 map, effectively giving pace notes to the driver. Trouble was, every now and then the road was not as map and part of the art of road rallying was to acquire the knowledge of where these mapping hazards were, marking up maps accordingly. My worst off came when competing away from my home area and coming upon a 60 degree bend that looked like a 30 degree bend on the map. The result was panic braking, followed by aiming for a farm track, going sideways on the gravel, hitting and demolishing a gate post door pillar first and then finishing off by going up a bank and through a fence into a field.
We survived the experience as (after some rebuilding) did the Mini! My point, however, is the inherent risks of relying too heavily on any map to read the road ahead. Still, as I say, I've never used sat nav so I'll be interested to hear other peoples' views.
We survived the experience as (after some rebuilding) did the Mini! My point, however, is the inherent risks of relying too heavily on any map to read the road ahead. Still, as I say, I've never used sat nav so I'll be interested to hear other peoples' views.
The main advantage of sat nav in reading ahead is being able to see - for example - when a really tight corner (or rapidly switching section) is coming up in a series of looser corners. It raises a flag in your mind that you need to be aware of it. It's also helpful for spotting the impending T-junction.
I wouldn't go flat out through a corner simply because I could see it was shallow on the GPS, until that was confirmed by my eyes - but I would go slowly into a corner that looked tight on the GPS but not (yet) on the road.
I wouldn't go flat out through a corner simply because I could see it was shallow on the GPS, until that was confirmed by my eyes - but I would go slowly into a corner that looked tight on the GPS but not (yet) on the road.
I use a Sat Nav regularly. I think the short range 3d map of the upcoming road is excellent and a useful addition. In no way to I drive the road any differently - I do it based on what i can see - but I *do* find that the upcoming view does allow "planning" to start earlier.
For example: The Sat Nav knows I will be turning right at the roundabout LONG before the signs confirm it. So I can be planning to get into the right hand lane earlier than the sign. This allows me to compete with the locals (who are using local knowledge to begin manouvers early) on a level playing field. This helps me to "flow" with the local traffic better. Really useful.
Similarly needing to exit left off the motorway. You normally find out about an exit at the one mile board. On a four lane motorway at speed whilst in the outermost overtaking lane this often means indicating left and hoping people will help you get across - which often they don't whilst driving a bright red Porsche. The Sat Nav allows me to start moving over, based on traffic conditions, long before the one-mile board if appropriate. Once again - this gives me extra time to make safe, considered manouvers that do not require the "assistance" of other traffic.
I am a total Sat Nav convert. Its brilliant - I will never be without it again. An excellent driving aid. An excellent safety aid in that it allows planning to be done earlier. It also has the, not inconsiderable, benefit of ensuring that YOU have your mind on the DRIVING whilst IT worries about how to get to your destination...
Not sure if I'd use one on a test - after all - its the examiner's job to give you directions under those circumstances...
For example: The Sat Nav knows I will be turning right at the roundabout LONG before the signs confirm it. So I can be planning to get into the right hand lane earlier than the sign. This allows me to compete with the locals (who are using local knowledge to begin manouvers early) on a level playing field. This helps me to "flow" with the local traffic better. Really useful.
Similarly needing to exit left off the motorway. You normally find out about an exit at the one mile board. On a four lane motorway at speed whilst in the outermost overtaking lane this often means indicating left and hoping people will help you get across - which often they don't whilst driving a bright red Porsche. The Sat Nav allows me to start moving over, based on traffic conditions, long before the one-mile board if appropriate. Once again - this gives me extra time to make safe, considered manouvers that do not require the "assistance" of other traffic.
I am a total Sat Nav convert. Its brilliant - I will never be without it again. An excellent driving aid. An excellent safety aid in that it allows planning to be done earlier. It also has the, not inconsiderable, benefit of ensuring that YOU have your mind on the DRIVING whilst IT worries about how to get to your destination...
Not sure if I'd use one on a test - after all - its the examiner's job to give you directions under those circumstances...
This is an interesting point. If I know a road, I find I can make safer overtaking manouvres. The reason is that I know when a suitable straight is coming up and can: change down a gear, close up a little on the car in front (I was taught to do this prior to moving to the other side of the road to minimise my TED), check if anyone is behind me, etc.
I don't have Sat Nav, but I presume if I did, I could do all these things beforehand. It wouldn't matter if the overtake was aborted due to a blind crests, house or field entrances or traffic (not shown on Sat Nav); but if the overtake WAS possible, then I would save valuable seconds changing down a gear and closing up to the car in front.
To be completely honest though, does anyone actually look at their Sat Nav that much to know that a decent straight is appearing? The times I've used Sat Nav, I only look at it when a junction is approaching - the rest of the time my eyes and mind are on the road.
I don't have Sat Nav, but I presume if I did, I could do all these things beforehand. It wouldn't matter if the overtake was aborted due to a blind crests, house or field entrances or traffic (not shown on Sat Nav); but if the overtake WAS possible, then I would save valuable seconds changing down a gear and closing up to the car in front.
To be completely honest though, does anyone actually look at their Sat Nav that much to know that a decent straight is appearing? The times I've used Sat Nav, I only look at it when a junction is approaching - the rest of the time my eyes and mind are on the road.
It does depend on where your SatNav is mounted - I've managed to get mine in the windscreen (obscuring only my bonnet and headlight) so a glance is easy.
Different settings (zoomed in, high detail) for corner estimation / progressive driving / stoppping Dave from scaring me with nasty corners and (zoomed out, low detail, nav and turn settings on) for getting from A-B.
Different settings (zoomed in, high detail) for corner estimation / progressive driving / stoppping Dave from scaring me with nasty corners and (zoomed out, low detail, nav and turn settings on) for getting from A-B.
We used it to great advantage going to Le Mans last year though the twisties, Lake in the car behind had Tom Tom and would call ahead on the two-way if thought there was a good chance of an overtake.
Obviously not the be all and end all, but anything that adds to the information you use to build a mental picture of what may be coming up is a good thing.
Obviously not the be all and end all, but anything that adds to the information you use to build a mental picture of what may be coming up is a good thing.
A satnav facility is only as good as the map data loaded within it; unless you're driving on a road with which you are familiar - in which case you don't need to look at the satnav display - you don't know if a road or junction has changed from that displayed. I will admit to looking at the display to determine when the next straight section of road is forthcoming - if I'm planning an overtaking manoeuvre - but I would never rely upon that information; what I can see with my eyes is the determining factor.
Been taking an interest in SatNav for road use for a long time having seen the benefits satnav has brought to marine activities, though essential to keep up the old skills imho.
Used various sets and now have one on my regular wheels, would not be without it.
Comments:
No satnav (marine nor road) can beat good accurate local knowledge but properly set up gets surprisingly close.
My version is the wired in set used by Ford PAG, in fact same as shown on the Vantage test on Top gear.
DVD maps cover most of W Europe and Scandinavia down to house number level. Iberia and Eastern Europe only cities and larger towns at house number level, but still enough detail to work.
The mapping is accurate and amazingly detailed but even zoomed right in is imho not sufficient to be used even remotely safely as a "read the road ahead device."
OK there are circumstances eg approaching a T junction which is hidden by bends trees whatever, but in terms of sussing out iffy bends or overtaking spots, mark one eyeball better every time and the satnav is a distraction in that respect.
The set is useful in that it picks up the traffic message channel on Classic FM etc and gives you warning of traffic problems, suggests possible re-routes which you can accept then and there, or get the system to calculate and sort of put on hold until a later decision.
As Don points out the real benefit is in situations where you get an earlier warning to keep you up with the locals early positioning.
I have my set in split screen mode. RHS is zoomed right in, LHS is zoomed out to give a wider overview of the journey. When you get an instruction the LHS changes to a junction diagram. The beauty of this is that if you get an instruction "500 yds turn right." Looking ahead you can see a turning to the right, but seems closer than 500yds. The system tells you that the name of the road you want, but a glance at the zoomed in RHS immediately shows that the junction you can see is not the one you want but the next one which is just round the next bend. Helps keep up with flow of traffic in unfamiliar surroundings.
Downside, no possibility to load up scam database.
Total convert though. my 2p
FiF
Used various sets and now have one on my regular wheels, would not be without it.
Comments:
No satnav (marine nor road) can beat good accurate local knowledge but properly set up gets surprisingly close.
My version is the wired in set used by Ford PAG, in fact same as shown on the Vantage test on Top gear.
DVD maps cover most of W Europe and Scandinavia down to house number level. Iberia and Eastern Europe only cities and larger towns at house number level, but still enough detail to work.
The mapping is accurate and amazingly detailed but even zoomed right in is imho not sufficient to be used even remotely safely as a "read the road ahead device."
OK there are circumstances eg approaching a T junction which is hidden by bends trees whatever, but in terms of sussing out iffy bends or overtaking spots, mark one eyeball better every time and the satnav is a distraction in that respect.
The set is useful in that it picks up the traffic message channel on Classic FM etc and gives you warning of traffic problems, suggests possible re-routes which you can accept then and there, or get the system to calculate and sort of put on hold until a later decision.
As Don points out the real benefit is in situations where you get an earlier warning to keep you up with the locals early positioning.
I have my set in split screen mode. RHS is zoomed right in, LHS is zoomed out to give a wider overview of the journey. When you get an instruction the LHS changes to a junction diagram. The beauty of this is that if you get an instruction "500 yds turn right." Looking ahead you can see a turning to the right, but seems closer than 500yds. The system tells you that the name of the road you want, but a glance at the zoomed in RHS immediately shows that the junction you can see is not the one you want but the next one which is just round the next bend. Helps keep up with flow of traffic in unfamiliar surroundings.
Downside, no possibility to load up scam database.
Total convert though. my 2p
FiF
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