The Image of the IAM
Discussion
Mornin' all,
I did another observed run yesterday. Got up at 8am on a Sunday morning. Sat through 1 hour of incredibly tedious (even though I find the subject interesting) power point presentation about 'The System', with the presenter fielding some of the most depressingly rubbish questions from the audience (everyone gets too specific about situations sometimes, I think perhaps it's the environment they're in which does it).
Anyway...after the presentation, all the observers (approx 30) go into the side room where we have a small meeting, get the run sheets for whomever we will be observing that morning, and talk about any current points. Half the observers can't sit down. Half the observers can't stand. Some are a bit deaf, and some can't stand for too long (it's a small room).
Then, when called, all 30 observers walk out to the front of the hall where our names are called and we go and greet, and take out, the associate.
I am by far the youngest observer (24).
And here, I beleive, lies the crux of the problem. Now, please do not get me wrong - I am not trying to belittle the efforts of many, many people. That is far from my intention. It's just that it is this very image that turns many people away for whom the IAM could be so rewarding.
Then, the observers (some of whom are very genuine, wonderfully nice people who - on a personal level - are spot on), have their 'old people quirks'. This isn't an insult, just that 'thing' that all old people have. You know - you can tell they've experienced the world, don't quite 'get' modern stuff (as much as they are able to e-mail), and don't understand sports cars.
They then explain things in their own 'unique' elderly way.
By the very nature of how the IAM works...it's all done by volunteers...it's those who are retired who have the most time to give, and also keep up with the required learning.
Once again let me stress this is not a dig, just me creating thoughts in my head about why the IAM struggles to attract younger associates. There was a link-up with Max Power magazine about a year ago but, as far as I know, it didn't go too well. People enquired, but few took it up because they then saw the real IAM (past the Max Power advert).
So...the answer? Well, this is a difficult one. The IAM is run and founded on volunteers, and (as I said above) by the very nature it is those who are slightly older that have more time to give. It's a catch 22 situation.
Should the IAM be 'refreshed' ?
Should a new IAM be introduced for, say, <25yr olds? (not pass plus).
Should the IAM strictly do <25yr old courses?
Should the marketing be better placed at youngsters?
It's a difficult question and I don't claim to know the answer. But, I thought I would put it to those on this forum - what are your thoughts?
Thanks all
Tony
I did another observed run yesterday. Got up at 8am on a Sunday morning. Sat through 1 hour of incredibly tedious (even though I find the subject interesting) power point presentation about 'The System', with the presenter fielding some of the most depressingly rubbish questions from the audience (everyone gets too specific about situations sometimes, I think perhaps it's the environment they're in which does it).
Anyway...after the presentation, all the observers (approx 30) go into the side room where we have a small meeting, get the run sheets for whomever we will be observing that morning, and talk about any current points. Half the observers can't sit down. Half the observers can't stand. Some are a bit deaf, and some can't stand for too long (it's a small room).
Then, when called, all 30 observers walk out to the front of the hall where our names are called and we go and greet, and take out, the associate.
I am by far the youngest observer (24).
And here, I beleive, lies the crux of the problem. Now, please do not get me wrong - I am not trying to belittle the efforts of many, many people. That is far from my intention. It's just that it is this very image that turns many people away for whom the IAM could be so rewarding.
Then, the observers (some of whom are very genuine, wonderfully nice people who - on a personal level - are spot on), have their 'old people quirks'. This isn't an insult, just that 'thing' that all old people have. You know - you can tell they've experienced the world, don't quite 'get' modern stuff (as much as they are able to e-mail), and don't understand sports cars.
They then explain things in their own 'unique' elderly way.
By the very nature of how the IAM works...it's all done by volunteers...it's those who are retired who have the most time to give, and also keep up with the required learning.
Once again let me stress this is not a dig, just me creating thoughts in my head about why the IAM struggles to attract younger associates. There was a link-up with Max Power magazine about a year ago but, as far as I know, it didn't go too well. People enquired, but few took it up because they then saw the real IAM (past the Max Power advert).
So...the answer? Well, this is a difficult one. The IAM is run and founded on volunteers, and (as I said above) by the very nature it is those who are slightly older that have more time to give. It's a catch 22 situation.
Should the IAM be 'refreshed' ?
Should a new IAM be introduced for, say, <25yr olds? (not pass plus).
Should the IAM strictly do <25yr old courses?
Should the marketing be better placed at youngsters?
It's a difficult question and I don't claim to know the answer. But, I thought I would put it to those on this forum - what are your thoughts?
Thanks all
Tony
tonyhetherington said:
Should the IAM be 'refreshed' ?
I think that the problem with their image is probably a result of people's ignorance. I think that a well targeted campaign with the sole purpose of attracting and informing younger drivers would be very worthwhile. The fact that they are a charity and such campaigns are expensive may be a factor in preventing this from happening.
tonyhetherington said:
Should a new IAM be introduced for, say, <25yr olds? (not pass plus).
I think that all drivers should be made aware of the IAM when they are undertaking their basic test. I am sure that many people would be interested. Unfortunately the greater majority of drivers think that they are good drivers and do not feel a need to improve their standards.
tonyhetherington said:
Should the IAM strictly do <25yr old courses?
Not sure whether they would get sufficient numbers locally to warrant running such a course. I don't think that the age of the class members is an issue. I used to teach evening classes with a broad range of ages, typically 17-65. I think that it is the attitude of the tutors - something that you have alluded to already Tony - that is the real influencing factor.
tonyhetherington said:
Should the marketing be better placed at youngsters?
Definitely! Again, cost is a real issue as advertising is very expensive. That is why I think that marketing through driving schools could be the most cost effective solution.
I must say that I found all of my Observers to be very down to earth. My one criticism of the tutors was that they were anti Roadcraft.
>> Edited by EmmaP on Monday 3rd October 12:35
jacko lah said:
I could be wrong, but I'm not usuallly.
One of the Senior Observers at my local branch is a fellow PHer and two of the Observers are women. None of them have an unhealthy desire for tweed, twin-sets or hand-knitted jumpers.
And I am about to start training to be an Observer. I'm neither old or middle-class. The only holiday that I have been on in the past two years is Eurohoon
>> Edited by EmmaP on Monday 3rd October 14:12
I applaud the IAM for the work they do, and although it does a lot of good, I think it is mainly a case of 'preaching to the converted'. What I mean by that is the only people who take the exam are those who understand that maybe they are not perfect drivers and are willing to spend time improve their driving standards.
The widespread view of the IAM as a bunch of 'wheel shufflers' is unfortunate and I'm sure contributes to the problem.
If the IAM want to 'reach out' to under 25s then they should negotiate guaranteed 25% discounts for anyone with an IAM pass. With ALL the major insurers.
Ideally IMO, the IAM wouldn't be necessary as the DSA should have official govt approved advanced driving tests, taken in stages and these could be used to offset point on license and for reduced insurance premiums etc etc. The observers would be full-time salaried employees not volunteers.
The government would do this if it was really concerned about road-safety.
The widespread view of the IAM as a bunch of 'wheel shufflers' is unfortunate and I'm sure contributes to the problem.
If the IAM want to 'reach out' to under 25s then they should negotiate guaranteed 25% discounts for anyone with an IAM pass. With ALL the major insurers.
Ideally IMO, the IAM wouldn't be necessary as the DSA should have official govt approved advanced driving tests, taken in stages and these could be used to offset point on license and for reduced insurance premiums etc etc. The observers would be full-time salaried employees not volunteers.
The government would do this if it was really concerned about road-safety.
Whilst I am passionate about improving my driving, I can't see myself going along to my local IAM, as there are too many reports of old guffers who are inflexible in their approach to driving.
And deep down I suspect the real problem would be that I didn't sufficiently respect their style of driving to really want to emulate them.
I suppose I ought to go along to see what it's like, but I can't see myself taking it much further than that.
Wasn't too far from Kent on a hoon over the weekend with an empty pax set, Tony, perhaps I should have been taking you for a ride as the acceptable young face of the IAM?!?
And deep down I suspect the real problem would be that I didn't sufficiently respect their style of driving to really want to emulate them.
I suppose I ought to go along to see what it's like, but I can't see myself taking it much further than that.
Wasn't too far from Kent on a hoon over the weekend with an empty pax set, Tony, perhaps I should have been taking you for a ride as the acceptable young face of the IAM?!?
jacko lah said:
My Opinion is that they are most likely a bunch of self oppinionated arogant white middle class middle aged (going on into old age) blokes, who go on saga holidays and are also members of the civil service motoring association.
I could be wrong, but I'm not usuallly.
Don_Could_have said:
I think you're an ignorant gimp. That's just my opinion but I'm seldom wrong.
See how it sounds? I don't know you and have never met you so how can I have come to that opinion?
Have you ever been to anything the IAM has ever arranged? Why repeat a stereotype that you can't know exists?
Personally I don't think one can debate the IAM image on PH. Rather than being a genuine debate it quickly degrades into cheap shots.
Good discussion peeps (I'm ignoring the negative comment above, as I trust you all will too).
edit; ok I've just written loads and loads and re-read it and it was rubbish. This just goes to show what a difficult topic this is.
The stereotypes, while not 100% accurate (myself, Emma and Don are good examples) does contain some truth (I aluded to this in my description of yesterday's run).
I think we can confidently say the IAM will never become government endorsed and, as such, we will never get those big advertising budgets or salaried employees able to do something about it.
(7db; I'd love to come out for a run with you! Whether I am the IAM's young face or not I'm not too sure, but always free for a blast on a Sunady. Drop me an e-mail next time you're around [I live in North Kent, around Medway Towns]. Oh, my apologies I never responded to your comments on the video; time ran away from me. I completely intend to do it still and thanks for your comments once again)
Anyhow...back to the IAM. What's the answer to opposing the stereotypes alluded to by mr-rubbish-poster above?
edit; ok I've just written loads and loads and re-read it and it was rubbish. This just goes to show what a difficult topic this is.
The stereotypes, while not 100% accurate (myself, Emma and Don are good examples) does contain some truth (I aluded to this in my description of yesterday's run).
I think we can confidently say the IAM will never become government endorsed and, as such, we will never get those big advertising budgets or salaried employees able to do something about it.
(7db; I'd love to come out for a run with you! Whether I am the IAM's young face or not I'm not too sure, but always free for a blast on a Sunady. Drop me an e-mail next time you're around [I live in North Kent, around Medway Towns]. Oh, my apologies I never responded to your comments on the video; time ran away from me. I completely intend to do it still and thanks for your comments once again)
Anyhow...back to the IAM. What's the answer to opposing the stereotypes alluded to by mr-rubbish-poster above?
I do agree that the IAM has an image problem and that it is, to some extent, age related. Thinking of my local group, the mind boggles at what would have happened if a group of Max Power readers had actually turned up to a monthly meeting. Actually, I'd love to have seen that just for the entertainment value!
Of course, it is not really age that counts, it just seems that way. What actually matters is attitude and being open and willing to discuss alternative ideas and new developments. The IAM too often seems hidebound because the people one tends to meet adopt very rigid, narrow viewpoints. Quite often, it is the fact that people are discussing driving techniques that counts, rather than the techniques themselves. It shows they are thinking about their driving, which is much more than 95% of road users ever do. Numerous IAM members, however, do not give them credit for this and are unwilling to enter into constructive debate.
To me, PH has been a revelation. For the first time I have discovered that there are plenty of IAM members who, like me, drive "interesting" cars and do not necessarily want to boast about how they achieved 55 miles to the gallon by driving all the way up the M1 at 55mph, whilst expressing a kind of sad amazement at how everything else was going so much faster! The point is, I guess, that we will not change the image until we all get much more involved in the day to day running of the organisation. Given the busy lives most of us lead, however, as compared to those who are retired and have the free time, this will always be a problem.
Perhaps the answer is a virtual IAM via this web site for those "in the know"!
Of course, it is not really age that counts, it just seems that way. What actually matters is attitude and being open and willing to discuss alternative ideas and new developments. The IAM too often seems hidebound because the people one tends to meet adopt very rigid, narrow viewpoints. Quite often, it is the fact that people are discussing driving techniques that counts, rather than the techniques themselves. It shows they are thinking about their driving, which is much more than 95% of road users ever do. Numerous IAM members, however, do not give them credit for this and are unwilling to enter into constructive debate.
To me, PH has been a revelation. For the first time I have discovered that there are plenty of IAM members who, like me, drive "interesting" cars and do not necessarily want to boast about how they achieved 55 miles to the gallon by driving all the way up the M1 at 55mph, whilst expressing a kind of sad amazement at how everything else was going so much faster! The point is, I guess, that we will not change the image until we all get much more involved in the day to day running of the organisation. Given the busy lives most of us lead, however, as compared to those who are retired and have the free time, this will always be a problem.
Perhaps the answer is a virtual IAM via this web site for those "in the know"!
7db said:You have my sympathies...
Nope. Only ever go as far as Dartford usually. Made it to Broadstairs one day...
The IAM could always sponsor a drifter or something, that could get lots of exposure. I'll reluctantly offer to put myself forward for the arduous job.
On a more serious note though, I agree. It's not helped when the members, even the observers, don't actually understand why they're saying things. When I went to the "classroom" sessions at my local group, the sort of questions you'd expect were asked - why not cross your arms, why not let the wheel spin back through your hands when straightening up? The response from them wasn't much more than "because". From my reading I was able to offer some possibilities (e.g. don't cross your arms if there's an airbag in the wheel, letting the wheel spin back through means if you have to react, you first have to stop the wheel spinning before you can react - extra delay) which led to people then saying "ah, that makes sense". The result was that it smacked too much of school to me where you're just told things and expected to believe them without believing the reasoning.
I must say though, I don't often experience people trotting out the old fart sterotype when I suggest IAM, it's usually a comment along the lines of "I'm a good enough driver anyway, I don't need to do anymore driver training".
Maybe I should get around to becoming an observer as I've threatened myself on occasion and then take these people out for a drive there and then and point out where IAM could help them.
""From my reading I was able to offer some possibilities (e.g. don't cross your arms if there's an airbag in the wheel, letting the wheel spin back through means if you have to react, you first have to stop the wheel spinning before you can react - extra delay) which led to people then saying "ah, that makes sense". The result was that it smacked too much of school to me where you're just told things and expected to believe them without believing the reasoning.""
This may help you with hand positioning...we had a group of 24 last week from the local Hospital, Doctors and Nurses...skid pan and some assesment drives.
The Accident+Emergency Doctor commented,unprovoked, that they check the thumbs of crash victims...frequently, having sorted legs, arms, heads etc... when the pain killers wear off they have had to reset broken thumbs.
Don't have thumbs around the wheel!
BOF.
>> Edited by BOF on Monday 3rd October 17:34
This may help you with hand positioning...we had a group of 24 last week from the local Hospital, Doctors and Nurses...skid pan and some assesment drives.
The Accident+Emergency Doctor commented,unprovoked, that they check the thumbs of crash victims...frequently, having sorted legs, arms, heads etc... when the pain killers wear off they have had to reset broken thumbs.
Don't have thumbs around the wheel!
BOF.
>> Edited by BOF on Monday 3rd October 17:34
Well, as documented elsewhere on where, I'll come clean about my own IAM experience.
I signed up because I wanted to be better driver, more aware, more skillful, safer, etc, etc.
I signed up to IAM as it was the 'obvious' thing to do.
My first real experience was sunday morning drive. I take an observer out - he tells me whats what. Then he takes me out and he shows me how it's done (and getting 55mpg, etc, etc).
All the observers I saw that morning were in their later years, with 1 exception - maybe 45ish.
Anyway - I eventually get assigned my Observer, so I go to meet him, and he's an elderly chap - retired - and the stereotype alarm bells started ringing.
6 drives later - and I was genuinely sad that I'd not be having more with him. It transpires he's an ex-rally driver, and as well as a VERY fast beemer and merc ..... he had a Cossie in the garage, which he took me out in - blimey I near soiled my underwear at times.
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
K
I signed up because I wanted to be better driver, more aware, more skillful, safer, etc, etc.
I signed up to IAM as it was the 'obvious' thing to do.
My first real experience was sunday morning drive. I take an observer out - he tells me whats what. Then he takes me out and he shows me how it's done (and getting 55mpg, etc, etc).
All the observers I saw that morning were in their later years, with 1 exception - maybe 45ish.
Anyway - I eventually get assigned my Observer, so I go to meet him, and he's an elderly chap - retired - and the stereotype alarm bells started ringing.
6 drives later - and I was genuinely sad that I'd not be having more with him. It transpires he's an ex-rally driver, and as well as a VERY fast beemer and merc ..... he had a Cossie in the garage, which he took me out in - blimey I near soiled my underwear at times.
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
K
Kinky said:
Well, as documented elsewhere on where, I'll come clean about my own IAM experience.
I signed up because I wanted to be better driver, more aware, more skillful, safer, etc, etc.
I signed up to IAM as it was the 'obvious' thing to do.
My first real experience was sunday morning drive. I take an observer out - he tells me whats what. Then he takes me out and he shows me how it's done (and getting 55mpg, etc, etc).
All the observers I saw that morning were in their later years, with 1 exception - maybe 45ish.
Anyway - I eventually get assigned my Observer, so I go to meet him, and he's an elderly chap - retired - and the stereotype alarm bells started ringing.
6 drives later - and I was genuinely sad that I'd not be having more with him. It transpires he's an ex-rally driver, and as well as a VERY fast beemer and merc ..... he had a Cossie in the garage, which he took me out in - blimey I near soiled my underwear at times.
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
K
Thats great, but is there any way to ensure you are paired with someone who can help you work to your goals. If you want to learn 'making progress' and you get an old duffer from the 'saving fuel' brigade its going to be a waste of everyones time.
Its this concern (along with rumoured massive delays due to over subscription in London) that makes me just pay for courses.
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