BAD DRIVER or just me?
Discussion
www.pistonheads.tv/clip526
this driver on urohoon this year.. is it me or that some bad driving.? a he is changin round corners.
wats ur thoughts.
this driver on urohoon this year.. is it me or that some bad driving.? a he is changin round corners.
wats ur thoughts.
Appalling driver very irresponsible. 
On a serious note I thought he made good progress down the road and did quite well considering he had never driver the section before. As for changing gears mid corner I didn't hear much of that but did hear a lot of change in the throttle position as and when sight lines permitted, just as you'd expect when pushing on in an irresponsible aggressive manner.
DAZ
(Who's own video recording of some scenic mountain driving on the minihoon in April, was deemed so good it would give people the wrong idea of the tour.
)
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 23 September 11:00
On a serious note I thought he made good progress down the road and did quite well considering he had never driver the section before. As for changing gears mid corner I didn't hear much of that but did hear a lot of change in the throttle position as and when sight lines permitted, just as you'd expect when pushing on in an irresponsible aggressive manner.
DAZ
(Who's own video recording of some scenic mountain driving on the minihoon in April, was deemed so good it would give people the wrong idea of the tour.
) >> Edited by dazren on Friday 23 September 11:00
TimW said:
www.pistonheadstv.com/videos/526.wmv
this driver on urohoon this year.. is it me or that some bad driving.? a he is changin round corners.
wats ur thoughts.
You would need to drive one to see why.
I'm sure Tony didn't upload the video to get a load of criticism from fellow PHers.
He was there, he was reading the road conditions, he made the choice of when to change gear. Having followed him for 3000 miles around Europe I believe him to be a very competent driver and it's a shame that people see fit to pick holes.
Morning all 
The driver is me (the clip is of me in my Elise in Tuscany a few weeks ago).
I welcome constructive criticism, and so am approaching this with a smile on my face. To address some of the points made;
I can't actually watch the video at the moment as I'm at work, however I don't recall doing that. One problem I did have though was that the ratios were too far apart (specifically 2nd and 3rd) and so to keep 'in the power' meant many gearchanges.
To say 'changing gear mid corner' is a very subjective thing. On that road - what bit's a corner and what bit's not? Should you not change gear just because you're deemed in a corner - if it's possible to do so?
Won't deny at all the video really does sound like that and - to a certain extent - it's because it is. Driving is all about sight lines (as Daz alluded to). Remember the camera is not in the position of my head and so what the video shows is not necessarily what I was seeing. At the point where I can see clearly, I accelerate. The car does not have enough torque to spin the wheels at those speeds and so I can accelerate 100%. I assure you, it was a VERY different case on some of the more slippy roads.
If I was driving a Viper, or a Cerbera - I whole heartedly agree. I will be the first to admit that my 'quick' driving skills are not the best. That's why I like learning, and why I welcome constructive criticism from my peers.
With regards to downchanging in my car (sometimes heeling and toeing, other times not); there simply is not enough torque in a 156bhp K-series to lock the rear wheels on a bone dry road (in 35c heat!). Regarding mid-way through a corner - I stress I can't watch the video at the moment because I'm at work - but, in a similar way to above - which bits a corner and which bit isn't on a road that has no straight bits?
What do you mean by dragging the revs down under power - do you mean not heeling and toeing on the down changing and so the wheels are driving the engine (via the clutch?). Absolutely agree - and while I am trying to better my heel+toe technique, in many cases I wanted to simply brake and change rather than add another dimension that could go wrong - as I am well aware that I could do it better.
Regarding the grip levels; the car is 1000 times better than I am. I drove at a speed I was incredibly happy with (and had a huge smile on my face) but I am in no doubt what-so-ever that the levels of grip on that car far out weighed both my ability, and my balls. That's why I still have a nice precious car in the garage that is my pride and joy, and it's not stuck down a bank in Tuscany somewhere.
--------------
While not my best stretch of road ever (particularly the lack of heel+toe, simply for safety), it was the msot fun one I have ever driven. I beleive I drove it safely, but quickly. I would happily post up the whole 45 minute video (in fact I will do at Ted's request) to show that we slowed when other cars were around, or sight lines did not allow, and we crawled past pedestrians and stationary cars.
I am proud of that video.
To those that posted comments above, please DO reply to this, and offer advice how you think I may have driven differently, or how my such driving could be improved.
I would specifically welcome something from, for example, a traffic copper.
The best driver in the world does not, and will not, ever exist.
In response to the original question; "Bad Driver?". I would say no. I would say I am not the most flowing driver, but I am working on that and enjoy the skill that it brings.
Thanks all for taking the time to read and to comment.
And thanks to Ted/Daz for their comments too. (PS: I asked him to reopen this thread so I may reply and promote discussion).
Tony
The driver is me (the clip is of me in my Elise in Tuscany a few weeks ago).
I welcome constructive criticism, and so am approaching this with a smile on my face. To address some of the points made;
timw said:
a he is changin round corners
I can't actually watch the video at the moment as I'm at work, however I don't recall doing that. One problem I did have though was that the ratios were too far apart (specifically 2nd and 3rd) and so to keep 'in the power' meant many gearchanges.
To say 'changing gear mid corner' is a very subjective thing. On that road - what bit's a corner and what bit's not? Should you not change gear just because you're deemed in a corner - if it's possible to do so?
AndyMac said:
he doesn't have a clutch, or accelerator... Just an on/off switch on the dashboard! Doesn't seem particularly fluid with his feet
Won't deny at all the video really does sound like that and - to a certain extent - it's because it is. Driving is all about sight lines (as Daz alluded to). Remember the camera is not in the position of my head and so what the video shows is not necessarily what I was seeing. At the point where I can see clearly, I accelerate. The car does not have enough torque to spin the wheels at those speeds and so I can accelerate 100%. I assure you, it was a VERY different case on some of the more slippy roads.
XM5er said:
But piss poor technique, dumping the clutch on a downchange midway though a corner is asking for trouble, especially if it is a mid engined car.
If I was driving a Viper, or a Cerbera - I whole heartedly agree. I will be the first to admit that my 'quick' driving skills are not the best. That's why I like learning, and why I welcome constructive criticism from my peers.
With regards to downchanging in my car (sometimes heeling and toeing, other times not); there simply is not enough torque in a 156bhp K-series to lock the rear wheels on a bone dry road (in 35c heat!). Regarding mid-way through a corner - I stress I can't watch the video at the moment because I'm at work - but, in a similar way to above - which bits a corner and which bit isn't on a road that has no straight bits?
greenv8s said:
Makes me cringe to hear the clutch being used to drag the revs down under power, if I drove mine like that I'd need a new clutch pretty soon. That would also upset the balance on mine but didn't seem to be causing any disturbance here, presumably there was plenty of grip in reserve
What do you mean by dragging the revs down under power - do you mean not heeling and toeing on the down changing and so the wheels are driving the engine (via the clutch?). Absolutely agree - and while I am trying to better my heel+toe technique, in many cases I wanted to simply brake and change rather than add another dimension that could go wrong - as I am well aware that I could do it better.
Regarding the grip levels; the car is 1000 times better than I am. I drove at a speed I was incredibly happy with (and had a huge smile on my face) but I am in no doubt what-so-ever that the levels of grip on that car far out weighed both my ability, and my balls. That's why I still have a nice precious car in the garage that is my pride and joy, and it's not stuck down a bank in Tuscany somewhere.
--------------
While not my best stretch of road ever (particularly the lack of heel+toe, simply for safety), it was the msot fun one I have ever driven. I beleive I drove it safely, but quickly. I would happily post up the whole 45 minute video (in fact I will do at Ted's request
) to show that we slowed when other cars were around, or sight lines did not allow, and we crawled past pedestrians and stationary cars. I am proud of that video.
To those that posted comments above, please DO reply to this, and offer advice how you think I may have driven differently, or how my such driving could be improved.
I would specifically welcome something from, for example, a traffic copper.
The best driver in the world does not, and will not, ever exist.
In response to the original question; "Bad Driver?". I would say no. I would say I am not the most flowing driver, but I am working on that and enjoy the skill that it brings.
Thanks all for taking the time to read and to comment.
And thanks to Ted/Daz for their comments too. (PS: I asked him to reopen this thread so I may reply and promote discussion).
Tony
In the vid you slow down for junctions, and other points where I thought it was going to get hairy if you pressed hard. So. Bad driveing? My vote says no.
As for changing gear mid corner. You never lost control of the car so how could there be a problem with your gear changing decisions on that drive.
I know what happens when you change gear mid corner when you shouldn't. And it involves heading backwards through the nearest hedge.
As for changing gear mid corner. You never lost control of the car so how could there be a problem with your gear changing decisions on that drive.
I know what happens when you change gear mid corner when you shouldn't. And it involves heading backwards through the nearest hedge.
It's clear that you had a good time and also that the car didn't get out of shape at any point, so however your style looks on camera it clearly wasn't doing you any great harm. Good to see some enthusiastic driving with more caution where appropriate. 
The comment about pulling the revs down under power was mine. I meant that after changing up, you could hear the power come on and then the revs dropped as the clutch engaged; you didn't have the clutch engaged before you opened the throttle. This is very hard on the clutch, the more power and grip you have the more harm it does. It also puts a sudden load on the transmission which would increase the risk of unsettling the car if you were near the limit of grip, clearly you weren't in this case but in general I think it's a habit best avoided.
The comment about pulling the revs down under power was mine. I meant that after changing up, you could hear the power come on and then the revs dropped as the clutch engaged; you didn't have the clutch engaged before you opened the throttle. This is very hard on the clutch, the more power and grip you have the more harm it does. It also puts a sudden load on the transmission which would increase the risk of unsettling the car if you were near the limit of grip, clearly you weren't in this case but in general I think it's a habit best avoided.
tonyhetherington said:
Morning all
XM5er said:
But piss poor technique, dumping the clutch on a downchange midway though a corner is asking for trouble, especially if it is a mid engined car.
If I was driving a Viper, or a Cerbera - I whole heartedly agree. I will be the first to admit that my 'quick' driving skills are not the best. That's why I like learning, and why I welcome constructive criticism from my peers.
With regards to downchanging in my car (sometimes heeling and toeing, other times not); there simply is not enough torque in a 156bhp K-series to lock the rear wheels on a bone dry road (in 35c heat!). Regarding mid-way through a corner - I stress I can't watch the video at the moment because I'm at work - but, in a similar way to above - which bits a corner and which bit isn't on a road that has no straight bits?
Fair point, I learned not to do this as a result of riding bikes for years, when I was a learner I did just that and was lucky enough to catch a massive slide. I never did it again. As I said, apart from that I thought you drove well enough, personally I cant understand it when people dont use both sides of the road.
blue 4.5 said:
personally I cant understand it when people dont use both sides of the road.
Because a less experienced driver coming the other way might panic and end up crashing into you?
I use both sides of the road but I can't say I do it when there's oncoming traffic...
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