Brake Light Courtesy
Discussion
Have recently made the jump to a much more modern car. Technology is in charge.
Until recently, I have always tried to be considerate to the occupants of a car behind, when stationary at traffic lights.
Foot off the brake and handbrake applied, so that the two brake lights and the high level brake light all switch off, so not dazzling anyone close behind.
In my new car this does not seem possible.
Take foot off brake and the engine starts.
Try to manually operate the electric parking brake, but that is not possible when the engine is running.
Particularly after dark, I feel slightly guilty that I must be annoying people in the vehicle behind, but as I am being dazzled by scores of red LEDs of the car ahead, it appears that everyone is being forced to keep their brake lights on.
I think I know what the answer is (cannot do anything), but thought I would just mention this.
Jon39 said:
....Try to manually operate the electric parking brake, but that is not possible when the engine is running.....
That seems an odd setup, how are you meant to do hillstarts?(Unless the car is an auto, and 'engine running' means it is in Drive, which is what stops you using the handbrake - just stick it in park in which case.)
Worse still on Swedish trucks in particular, brake lights come on when the retarder or exhaust brake are used, descending long motorway hills the retarder can be in use for several minutes maintaining just the constant speed.
Not only is annoying for following drivers but in the event of a hard stop being required the brake lights are already applied so following driver won't realise until possibly too late, this is supposed to be safety feature...we won't even start to describe how ludicrous the new headlight switching is, auto only, driver has no control whatsoever of the headlights switching themselves on and off when passing shaded or darker areas (unless the headlights are turned on fully for the complete journey), don't need to spell out the possible issues from this safety gem either.
As for some car brake lights, stupidly bright, so bright that its almost impossible to judge the rate of deceleration because blinded, more safety fail.
Not only is annoying for following drivers but in the event of a hard stop being required the brake lights are already applied so following driver won't realise until possibly too late, this is supposed to be safety feature...we won't even start to describe how ludicrous the new headlight switching is, auto only, driver has no control whatsoever of the headlights switching themselves on and off when passing shaded or darker areas (unless the headlights are turned on fully for the complete journey), don't need to spell out the possible issues from this safety gem either.
As for some car brake lights, stupidly bright, so bright that its almost impossible to judge the rate of deceleration because blinded, more safety fail.
Smint said:
Worse still on Swedish trucks in particular, brake lights come on when the retarder or exhaust brake are used, descending long motorway hills the retarder can be in use for several minutes maintaining just the constant speed.
Not just trucks. Following a Tesla along a bendy road, I was surprised the the brake lights came on for every bend and concluded that lifting off lit the brake lightsTorquey said:
Mazda 3 year 2020 and I have no option to stop brake lights blinding the driver behind.
Epb and auto hold both show brake lights whilst the ignition is on.
Very surprised manufacturers are doing this.
Think it's a requirement of the C&U regs, came up a few years ago.Epb and auto hold both show brake lights whilst the ignition is on.
Very surprised manufacturers are doing this.
My 2016 5 series is the same in auto hold mode, I can go 'lights out' if I stop, put the handbrake on manually and then foot off the brake. Engine doesn't restart and pressing the accelerator to move off disengages the hand brake. I'll do it if we're going to be in stop/start traffic for a while.
angoooose said:
Following a Tesla along a bendy road, I was surprised the the brake lights came on for every bend and concluded that lifting off lit the brake lights
I believe that if the retardation (such as caused by regen braking) exceeds a certain level, the brake lights are required to illuminate to comply with EU regulations.Jon39 said:
Until recently, I have always tried to be considerate to the occupants of a car behind, when stationary at traffic lights.
Foot off the brake and handbrake applied, so that the two brake lights and the high level brake light all switch off, so not dazzling anyone close behind.
In my new car this does not seem possible.
Take foot off brake and the engine starts.
Try to manually operate the electric parking brake, but that is not possible when the engine is running.
I had a similar issue in a rented Nissan Juke with auto-hold disabled: stop the car (engine turns off), EPB on, foot of the brake pedal - engine starts. Turned on auto-hold and gave up on the EPB - result: engine stays off. Mind you - I didn't check whether the brake light turns off with auto-hold, I was only trying to figure out how to keep the engine off.
But...
Rough101 said:
It’s unavoidable on many autos, shifting into park then back into drive just isn’t something that’s quick and the auto hold keep the brakes lights on when you remove your foot from the brake
With the Juke I was using I think you can put it into Neutral instead of Park. So: stop with the brake pedal, turn on EPB while keeping brake pedal depressed, switch to neutral, foot off the brake pedal. Still a hassle, and I didn't bother because I'm not used to right-hand drives - but it's something I'd consider if I were stuck with an automatic like this for longer.Truckosaurus said:
Unless the car is an auto, and 'engine running' means it is in Drive, which is what stops you using the handbrake - just stick it in park in which case.
This sounds bizarre to me. Every car with an electric parking brake that I've ever driven has the EPB as an "emergency brake". I believe it's a legal requirement for all vehicles to have an emergency brake separate from the main brake pedal system. Separately from the above many auto's do release the EPB when you touch the accelerator. Typically it depends on whether the car has just been started or whether it knows it's already being driven.
Stedman said:
Really dazzling in winter, horrible,
I was going to post that I can't recall any brake lights that dazzled me and that the whole brake light courtesy idea is just an "advanced driving" affectation like not allowing the handbrake ratchet to clack 
But maybe I won't say that now!
fourthpedal said:
Jon39 said:
Until recently, I have always tried to be considerate to the occupants of a car behind, when stationary at traffic lights.
Foot off the brake and handbrake applied, so that the two brake lights and the high level brake light all switch off, so not dazzling anyone close behind.
In my new car this does not seem possible.
Take foot off brake and the engine starts.
Try to manually operate the electric parking brake, but that is not possible when the engine is running.
I had a similar issue in a rented Nissan Juke with auto-hold disabled: stop the car (engine turns off), EPB on, foot of the brake pedal - engine starts. Turned on auto-hold and gave up on the EPB - result: engine stays off. Mind you - I didn't check whether the brake light turns off with auto-hold, I was only trying to figure out how to keep the engine off.
But...
Rough101 said:
It’s unavoidable on many autos, shifting into park then back into drive just isn’t something that’s quick and the auto hold keep the brakes lights on when you remove your foot from the brake
With the Juke I was using I think you can put it into Neutral instead of Park. So: stop with the brake pedal, turn on EPB while keeping brake pedal depressed, switch to neutral, foot off the brake pedal. Still a hassle, and I didn't bother because I'm not used to right-hand drives - but it's something I'd consider if I were stuck with an automatic like this for longer.If I stop in a queue, I am observing who is coming up behind and how the stop is likely to be.
A queue off a fast road - leave foot on brake, stay in D until the car behind is slowing to stop. Then press P and put manual parking brake on if I want the stop/start to stay active (it’s active in P or D ). Or I may decide to go into neutral and put (manual and levered) parking brake on.
First consideration is everyone’s safety, then comfort for the person behind.
A queue off a fast road - leave foot on brake, stay in D until the car behind is slowing to stop. Then press P and put manual parking brake on if I want the stop/start to stay active (it’s active in P or D ). Or I may decide to go into neutral and put (manual and levered) parking brake on.
First consideration is everyone’s safety, then comfort for the person behind.
BertBert said:
I was going to post that I can't recall any brake lights that dazzled me and that the whole brake light courtesy idea is just an "advanced driving" affectation like not allowing the handbrake ratchet to clack
But maybe I won't say that now!
I think it must affect different people differently. At night I find being stopped behind a car with its brake lights on very uncomfortable. "Dazzle" might not be the word - it's not as bad as full beams, but they're very bright and unpleasant. But maybe I won't say that now!
Sticks. said:
My auto will let you apply the electric handbrake while in D, for hill starts or anything. Touch accelerator to disengage.
Both of mine do too. Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff