Roundabout Mirror Checks
Discussion
Hello all,
Recently passed my IAM Advanced test (Car - Manual) with a F1rst and put in for my Masters. IAM sent me a copy of Roadcraft to accompany the course. I’ve been reading through it and one thing that I noticed is that it only seems to advocate a left mirror check to exit roundabouts if you need to change lanes to exit.
Personally I always check my left mirror after my penultimate exit, even if going straight over (2nd exit) in the left lane. This is how I was taught for my DVSA driving test.
Issues I have found with this however include:
•Realistically what can actually be to the left of me if I am already in the left lane
•If I am on a dual carriageway where left and right lane can go straight over the roundabout, and I am in the right lane wanting to go straight over, even if there is a car or cyclist in my left mirror when I check prior to exiting, I am still going to carry on as we can both exit in our respective lanes (and so aren’t going to collide) - in which case, what was the point of taking my eyes off the road?
•On my masters sessions, I am being encouraged to straight-line roundabouts wherever possible. I find this means I go across them at such a speed that, on small roundabouts (the type you might find in a village as opposed to at the bottom of a motorway slip road, where at 30mph you would probably clear it in less than 2 seconds), if I delay my left mirror check until after the penultimate exit, I can miss changes in speed limits/other signage posted right at the exit of the roundabout as I’m too busy checking my mirror
I guess I am just seeking input from anybody who has experience at the Masters level of what the correct way to approach this is. Do you only need to do a left mirror check to exit if changing lanes like what Roadcraft suggests? If a left mirror check is mandatory even if going straight over 2nd exit in the left lane, what do people do to avoid the problems I have been having re: missing signage posted immediately at the exit due to being too busy checking mirrors? I’ve tried:
•Looking into the exit prior to checking mirror - but this isn’t always possible eg if there a big tree in the middle of the roundabout
•Going slower around the roundabout to give me time to both check the left mirror after the penultimate exit and lift my vision back up again so that my vision is re-focussed ahead for any signage posted at the exit - but I find this sometimes feels overly slow and makes it seem a bit pointless to straight-line if you’re just going to crawl across anyway, and the vibe I get from Masters so far is that it is all about maximum progress, no unnecessary slowness/dilly-dallying
Thanks all
Recently passed my IAM Advanced test (Car - Manual) with a F1rst and put in for my Masters. IAM sent me a copy of Roadcraft to accompany the course. I’ve been reading through it and one thing that I noticed is that it only seems to advocate a left mirror check to exit roundabouts if you need to change lanes to exit.
Personally I always check my left mirror after my penultimate exit, even if going straight over (2nd exit) in the left lane. This is how I was taught for my DVSA driving test.
Issues I have found with this however include:
•Realistically what can actually be to the left of me if I am already in the left lane
•If I am on a dual carriageway where left and right lane can go straight over the roundabout, and I am in the right lane wanting to go straight over, even if there is a car or cyclist in my left mirror when I check prior to exiting, I am still going to carry on as we can both exit in our respective lanes (and so aren’t going to collide) - in which case, what was the point of taking my eyes off the road?
•On my masters sessions, I am being encouraged to straight-line roundabouts wherever possible. I find this means I go across them at such a speed that, on small roundabouts (the type you might find in a village as opposed to at the bottom of a motorway slip road, where at 30mph you would probably clear it in less than 2 seconds), if I delay my left mirror check until after the penultimate exit, I can miss changes in speed limits/other signage posted right at the exit of the roundabout as I’m too busy checking my mirror
I guess I am just seeking input from anybody who has experience at the Masters level of what the correct way to approach this is. Do you only need to do a left mirror check to exit if changing lanes like what Roadcraft suggests? If a left mirror check is mandatory even if going straight over 2nd exit in the left lane, what do people do to avoid the problems I have been having re: missing signage posted immediately at the exit due to being too busy checking mirrors? I’ve tried:
•Looking into the exit prior to checking mirror - but this isn’t always possible eg if there a big tree in the middle of the roundabout
•Going slower around the roundabout to give me time to both check the left mirror after the penultimate exit and lift my vision back up again so that my vision is re-focussed ahead for any signage posted at the exit - but I find this sometimes feels overly slow and makes it seem a bit pointless to straight-line if you’re just going to crawl across anyway, and the vibe I get from Masters so far is that it is all about maximum progress, no unnecessary slowness/dilly-dallying
Thanks all
Edited by Scott OSRS on Friday 20th October 18:26
Nothing is mandatory - other than to be safe. Consider whether there could be a hazard to your left, and if you think it is possible then look. My main advice in relation to roundabouts is not to put yourself somewhere where another road user might go - even if they would be 'in the wrong' to do so. This generally means avoiding being directly alongside another road user
waremark said:
Nothing is mandatory - other than to be safe. Consider whether there could be a hazard to your left, and if you think it is possible then look. My main advice in relation to roundabouts is not to put yourself somewhere where another road user might go - even if they would be 'in the wrong' to do so. This generally means avoiding being directly alongside another road user
Thank you. Bear in mind that cyclists have the alternative advice to go round a roundabout staying left all the time, I would say a cyclist could well be on your left (at certain speeds). So could a motorcyclist (increasingly electric now). Always, but ALWAYS, know what is around you (rear, both sides, and in front).
“ •On my masters sessions, I am being encouraged to straight-line roundabouts wherever possible. I find this means I go across them at such a speed that, on small roundabouts (the type you might find in a village as opposed to at the bottom of a motorway slip road, where at 30mph you would probably clear it in less than 2 seconds), if I delay my left mirror check until after the penultimate exit, I can miss changes in speed limits/other signage posted right at the exit of the roundabout as I’m too busy checking my mirror”
This is my bugbear with many speed limits. The speed limit signs should not be immediately at the start of the new road/section, but at a point when the road users eyes are not distracted by other signs, side roads, or the need to take other observations.
I missed a 30 limit sign after a roundabout, because of various distractions (pelican crossing lights, foliage). The road used to be a 40, but had now changed! Luckily I was only done for 37 in a 30, so a SAC was incurred. The instructor got us to list how we were ‘done’ and came round individually to suggest how to avoid this. For me it was ‘new road, assume 30, until you have confirmation it is more’. In that case I would have stayed at 30, because there would not be any 40 repeaters. I suggest you concentrate on clearing other road users, and if you have not confirmed the speed limit keep to 30, until you see a confirmation of otherwise. Note: many roundabouts on dual carriageways drop to 40 at roundabouts, so keep your eye’s peeled. Driving is very much about constant observation and acting on it.
This is my bugbear with many speed limits. The speed limit signs should not be immediately at the start of the new road/section, but at a point when the road users eyes are not distracted by other signs, side roads, or the need to take other observations.
I missed a 30 limit sign after a roundabout, because of various distractions (pelican crossing lights, foliage). The road used to be a 40, but had now changed! Luckily I was only done for 37 in a 30, so a SAC was incurred. The instructor got us to list how we were ‘done’ and came round individually to suggest how to avoid this. For me it was ‘new road, assume 30, until you have confirmation it is more’. In that case I would have stayed at 30, because there would not be any 40 repeaters. I suggest you concentrate on clearing other road users, and if you have not confirmed the speed limit keep to 30, until you see a confirmation of otherwise. Note: many roundabouts on dual carriageways drop to 40 at roundabouts, so keep your eye’s peeled. Driving is very much about constant observation and acting on it.
Pica-Pica said:
Bear in mind that cyclists have the alternative advice to go round a roundabout staying left all the time, I would say a cyclist could well be on your left (at certain speeds). So could a motorcyclist (increasingly electric now). Always, but ALWAYS, know what is around you (rear, both sides, and in front).
Yes I agree. I think, as Waremark says, if you are in any doubt you need to check. But eg if you’re in a left lane that is sufficiently narrow such that even in stationary traffic a bike couldn’t fit down the nearside of you, that’s the sort of scenario where I feel it’s a needless mirror check. Obviously you would have checked mirrors on approach, and before you set off again if you had to give way.Pica-Pica said:
This is my bugbear with many speed limits. The speed limit signs should not be immediately at the start of the new road/section, but at a point when the road users eyes are not distracted by other signs, side roads, or the need to take other observations.
I completely agree, and such scenarios have caught me out many times. Less so now that I know to expect there may be a limit posted right at the exit, so I am consciously trying to get my observations sorted in time to have my eyes up looking for one, but even when you want to look out for it sometimes your observations have to take the priority.Pica-Pica said:
The instructor got us to list how we were ‘done’ and came round individually to suggest how to avoid this. For me it was ‘new road, assume 30, until you have confirmation it is more’. In that case I would have stayed at 30, because there would not be any 40 repeaters. I suggest you concentrate on clearing other road users, and if you have not confirmed the speed limit keep to 30, until you see a confirmation of otherwise.
That’s a good piece of advice from the police officer, and something I will bear in mind going forwards. I was always vaguely aware of the need for repeaters, but I’ve done some digging and found that lit non-30 roads, unlit non-NSL roads and non-NSL motorways require regular repeaters. I’ve attached a table (taken from the Government’s Traffic Signs Manual, available here) which shows the rules regarding repeater signs. Even if you miss the initial sign (confusingly called the ‘Terminal Sign’, although I suppose this refers to the previous limit terminating), there has to be a repeater within 200-450 meters (depending on the limit). So even if you assume 30 on an NSL, it’s not like you will be dawdling along for a while before a repeater comes along.
Edited by Scott OSRS on Tuesday 24th October 19:52
Scott OSRS said:
I was always vaguely aware of the need for repeaters, but I’ve done some digging and found that lit non-30 roads, unlit non-NSL roads and non-NSL motorways require regular repeaters.
Not required but recommended.8.3.1. Whilst there is no specific requirement to provide repeater signs, it is for the traffic authority to determine how many are required and where they are placed. However, to ensure that drivers are fully aware of the speed limit in force it is recommended that repeater signs are provided at the intervals shown in Table 8‑4
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