Night driving, lights, speed and stopping distances
Discussion
I've only been driving a couple of years, so with the nights drawing in I find myself wondering about this one again.
The standard recommendation is that you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. Dipped headlights illuminate around 30m in front of you, so on an unlit road and even allowing for some conservatism in the HC stopping distances, anything above say 45 mph puts you at risk of not being able to stop if something suddenly appears put of the shadows.
How do people deal with this? Obviously full beam when appropriate, but there are loads of situations where there might be traffic in the distance which prevents use of full beam, but where said traffic doesn't illuminate anything extra. Motorways particularly - if you're not following anyone but there's some traffic in the other carriageway for example. And should you assume for example that, just because you can see someone's rear lights some way ahead of you, a deer hasn't run out on to the carriageway between them and you.
Clearly you can't be driving at 40 on the motorway, but as someone who generally tries to observe as far in the distance as possible, I'm painfully aware at times that if something suddenly appeared in front of me I'd have precious little time to take evading action, and almost certainly wouldn't be able stop.
Thoughts? Techniques? Recommendations?
The standard recommendation is that you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. Dipped headlights illuminate around 30m in front of you, so on an unlit road and even allowing for some conservatism in the HC stopping distances, anything above say 45 mph puts you at risk of not being able to stop if something suddenly appears put of the shadows.
How do people deal with this? Obviously full beam when appropriate, but there are loads of situations where there might be traffic in the distance which prevents use of full beam, but where said traffic doesn't illuminate anything extra. Motorways particularly - if you're not following anyone but there's some traffic in the other carriageway for example. And should you assume for example that, just because you can see someone's rear lights some way ahead of you, a deer hasn't run out on to the carriageway between them and you.
Clearly you can't be driving at 40 on the motorway, but as someone who generally tries to observe as far in the distance as possible, I'm painfully aware at times that if something suddenly appeared in front of me I'd have precious little time to take evading action, and almost certainly wouldn't be able stop.
Thoughts? Techniques? Recommendations?
I've seen a few studies on a similar note (40MPH Is the furthest you can see on dip beams etc.)
With that said, I'd say in some instances such as motorways / DCWs you can stretch that a bit, as any major obstructions would be visible at longer range with ambient light - All very dependent on the environmental circumstances and headlights of the car though - Poorly set (Low) beams and crap light sources will be very limiting.
The one that scares me most is "blinding" from oncoming vehicles on country lanes - Not even high beams, but the general glare still virtually limits the maximum visible range (You can't see "past" the lights) so I'll generally start trailing the brakes and dropping pace in cases where there is oncoming - Loads the front up ready for more braking if there is a cow hidden in the glare, And helps drop your own beams a tad further for the oncoming.
With that said, I'd say in some instances such as motorways / DCWs you can stretch that a bit, as any major obstructions would be visible at longer range with ambient light - All very dependent on the environmental circumstances and headlights of the car though - Poorly set (Low) beams and crap light sources will be very limiting.
The one that scares me most is "blinding" from oncoming vehicles on country lanes - Not even high beams, but the general glare still virtually limits the maximum visible range (You can't see "past" the lights) so I'll generally start trailing the brakes and dropping pace in cases where there is oncoming - Loads the front up ready for more braking if there is a cow hidden in the glare, And helps drop your own beams a tad further for the oncoming.
ScoobyChris said:
Thanks, that's a very interesting read. Haltamer said:
The one that scares me most is "blinding" from oncoming vehicles on country lanes - Not even high beams, but the general glare still virtually limits the maximum visible range (You can't see "past" the lights) so I'll generally start trailing the brakes and dropping pace in cases where there is oncoming - Loads the front up ready for more braking if there is a cow hidden in the glare, And helps drop your own beams a tad further for the oncoming.
Unlit country lanes are terrifying when someone with HIDs is coming the other way - all you can see is the light. Doesn't help when you've got a 24 year old car with little more than tea lights to illuminate the road ahead but I do wonder if it'd be any better if I were driving a car that also had HIDs.One technique someone gave me that I’ve had success with is to shift your vision to look down and left to the road edge/kerb (which is illuminated by your headlights) just prior to oncoming headlights entering your vision. This has the advantage of avoiding the seconds of temporary blindness while your eyes try and readjust, and the edge of the road gives you something to follow.
Chris
Chris
Much as you should have sunglasses to drive in low sun, you should also have yellow tinted glasses to drive at night.
They don't fully stop the HID menance by any means - or even 50% stop it tbh - but it still makes a very substantial difference.
That only helps with your blinding question. As for the stopping distance - you are probably either following a car or on full beam or in a lit street most of the time. Outside of that then yes you may well have to slow down purely cause of your lights. Or get night vision - this is an option or available after market for various vehicles.
They don't fully stop the HID menance by any means - or even 50% stop it tbh - but it still makes a very substantial difference.
That only helps with your blinding question. As for the stopping distance - you are probably either following a car or on full beam or in a lit street most of the time. Outside of that then yes you may well have to slow down purely cause of your lights. Or get night vision - this is an option or available after market for various vehicles.
ScoobyChris said:
One technique someone gave me that I’ve had success with is to shift your vision to look down and left to the road edge/kerb (which is illuminated by your headlights) just prior to oncoming headlights entering your vision. This has the advantage of avoiding the seconds of temporary blindness while your eyes try and readjust, and the edge of the road gives you something to follow.
Chris
Also close one eye.Chris
Very first lesson, spotlessly clean all windows and lights, if the screen is badly scratched consider replacing it, if you can't see properly you are already losing the battle.
Keep all windows clean, a bright light is one thing but the glare when that bright light spreads over your whole rear or side windows into grime or condensation is something else.
Headlights, some cars have abysmal lights from new which won't get any better as the vehicle ages, if yours are pants consider upgrading the existing bulbs with legal quality brighter bulbs, Philips and Osram both make better output legal bulbs in H4 and H7 fittings, these can make a big difference.
Not everyone can but make sure your lights are not set too low or high, a traffic free road or car park is ideal for some decent setting up of the lights, if you don't know how to yourself get a friend who does to help you.
If the light lenses are cloudy polish them up with one of the kits, if they're beyond that replace them.
You don't need illegal bulb set ups what you need for safe night driving is a little light scatter beyond the dipped beam, if your beams are super bright but cut off sharply as some european lights do then they are worse than less bright lights that have a bit of scatter, because where the super bright cut off ends everything beyond is plunged into total shade as if its matt black.
Make sure your tyres are good quality, inflated correctly and the brakes are well serviced.
As for driving itself, as traffic approaches you have to have a certain faith, you'll be driving on what you could see before the coming vehicle blinds you, use the other vehicle's lights to inspect the road you are about to cover, don't look directly at the oncoming lights but at the road you are about to reach.
Learn and use the dipswitch correctly, it staggers me the number of people who drive everywhere even at 3.30am when i'm on the way to work on dipped beam only, often enough with one headlight not working.
Switch off any rear fog lights as soon as possible, following extra bright lights soon ruins whatever sliver of night vision one might have left after being assaulted by the new fad of fairy lights so many cars are festooned with.
It must be 30 years since i've needed to use rear fog lights over probably 2 million miles, why people see the need for them when you can see 3 miles through the lightest of mists beats me, extra bright red lights should be brake lights not to be confused with rear fogs almost permanently on.
Never assume that motorcycle approaching you is what it seems, it might prove to be a Transit with not a single light of any description showing on the offside, if the dimwit can't be bothered to fix his blown lights what do you think his driving skills will be.
Drive at a speed you are comfortable with, forget supposed braking distances, learn to drive by the seat of your pants feeling what is happening at the tyres where the importantt stuff happens, does the steering go light on corners could be the road is slippery as will be case in the evenings when the salt goes down, horrid stuff road salt, learn your car and how it handles intimately, you'll get the feel for what is the right speed in any given circumstance.
Keep all windows clean, a bright light is one thing but the glare when that bright light spreads over your whole rear or side windows into grime or condensation is something else.
Headlights, some cars have abysmal lights from new which won't get any better as the vehicle ages, if yours are pants consider upgrading the existing bulbs with legal quality brighter bulbs, Philips and Osram both make better output legal bulbs in H4 and H7 fittings, these can make a big difference.
Not everyone can but make sure your lights are not set too low or high, a traffic free road or car park is ideal for some decent setting up of the lights, if you don't know how to yourself get a friend who does to help you.
If the light lenses are cloudy polish them up with one of the kits, if they're beyond that replace them.
You don't need illegal bulb set ups what you need for safe night driving is a little light scatter beyond the dipped beam, if your beams are super bright but cut off sharply as some european lights do then they are worse than less bright lights that have a bit of scatter, because where the super bright cut off ends everything beyond is plunged into total shade as if its matt black.
Make sure your tyres are good quality, inflated correctly and the brakes are well serviced.
As for driving itself, as traffic approaches you have to have a certain faith, you'll be driving on what you could see before the coming vehicle blinds you, use the other vehicle's lights to inspect the road you are about to cover, don't look directly at the oncoming lights but at the road you are about to reach.
Learn and use the dipswitch correctly, it staggers me the number of people who drive everywhere even at 3.30am when i'm on the way to work on dipped beam only, often enough with one headlight not working.
Switch off any rear fog lights as soon as possible, following extra bright lights soon ruins whatever sliver of night vision one might have left after being assaulted by the new fad of fairy lights so many cars are festooned with.
It must be 30 years since i've needed to use rear fog lights over probably 2 million miles, why people see the need for them when you can see 3 miles through the lightest of mists beats me, extra bright red lights should be brake lights not to be confused with rear fogs almost permanently on.
Never assume that motorcycle approaching you is what it seems, it might prove to be a Transit with not a single light of any description showing on the offside, if the dimwit can't be bothered to fix his blown lights what do you think his driving skills will be.
Drive at a speed you are comfortable with, forget supposed braking distances, learn to drive by the seat of your pants feeling what is happening at the tyres where the importantt stuff happens, does the steering go light on corners could be the road is slippery as will be case in the evenings when the salt goes down, horrid stuff road salt, learn your car and how it handles intimately, you'll get the feel for what is the right speed in any given circumstance.
Edited by Smint on Thursday 19th October 16:24
PhilAsia said:
ScoobyChris said:
One technique someone gave me that I’ve had success with is to shift your vision to look down and left to the road edge/kerb (which is illuminated by your headlights) just prior to oncoming headlights entering your vision. This has the advantage of avoiding the seconds of temporary blindness while your eyes try and readjust, and the edge of the road gives you something to follow.
Chris
Also close one eye.Chris
Smint said:
Very first lesson, spotlessly clean all windows and lights, if the screen is badly scratched consider replacing it, if you can't see properly you are already losing the battle.
Keep all windows clean, a bright light is one thing but the glare when that bright light spreads over your whole rear or side windows into grime or condensation is something else.
Headlights, some cars have abysmal lights from new which won't get any better as the vehicle ages, if yours are pants consider upgrading the existing bulbs with legal quality brighter bulbs, Philips and Osram both make better output legal bulbs in H4 and H7 fittings, these can make a big difference.
Not everyone can but make sure your lights are not set too low or high, a traffic free road or car park is ideal for some decent setting up of the lights, if you don't know how to yourself get a friend who does to help you.
If the light lenses are cloudy polish them up with one of the kits, if they're beyond that replace them.
You don't need illegal bulb set ups what you need for safe night driving is a little light scatter beyond the dipped beam, if your beams are super bright but cut off sharply as some european lights do then they are worse than less bright lights that have a bit of scatter, because where the super bright cut off ends everything beyond is plunged into total shade as if its matt black.
Make sure your tyres are good quality, inflated correctly and the brakes are well serviced.
As for driving itself, as traffic approaches you have to have a certain faith, you'll be driving on what you could see before the coming vehicle blinds you, use the other vehicle's lights to inspect the road you are about to cover, don't look directly at the oncoming lights but at the road you are about to reach.
Learn and use the dipswitch correctly, it staggers me the number of people who drive everywhere even at 3.30am when i'm on the way to work on dipped beam only, often enough with one headlight not working.
Switch off any rear fog lights as soon as possible, following extra bright lights soon ruins whatever sliver of night vision one might have left after being assaulted by the new fad of fairy lights so many cars are festooned with.
It must be 30 years since i've needed to use rear fog lights over probably 2 million miles, why people see the need for them when you can see 3 miles through the lightest of mists beats me, extra bright red lights should be brake lights not to be confused with rear fogs almost permanently on.
Never assume that motorcycle approaching you is what it seems, it might prove to be a Transit with not a single light of any description showing on the offside, if the dimwit can't be bothered to fix his blown lights what do you think his driving skills will be.
Drive at a speed you are comfortable with, forget supposed braking distances, learn to drive by the seat of your pants feeling what is happening at the tyres where the importantt stuff happens, does the steering go light on corners could be the road is slippery as will be case in the evenings when the salt goes down, horrid stuff road salt, learn your car and how it handles intimately, you'll get the feel for what is the right speed in any given circumstance.
Excellent advice. And one more addition, reduce in-car glare as much as possible e.g. reduce sat-nav and dash light levels.Keep all windows clean, a bright light is one thing but the glare when that bright light spreads over your whole rear or side windows into grime or condensation is something else.
Headlights, some cars have abysmal lights from new which won't get any better as the vehicle ages, if yours are pants consider upgrading the existing bulbs with legal quality brighter bulbs, Philips and Osram both make better output legal bulbs in H4 and H7 fittings, these can make a big difference.
Not everyone can but make sure your lights are not set too low or high, a traffic free road or car park is ideal for some decent setting up of the lights, if you don't know how to yourself get a friend who does to help you.
If the light lenses are cloudy polish them up with one of the kits, if they're beyond that replace them.
You don't need illegal bulb set ups what you need for safe night driving is a little light scatter beyond the dipped beam, if your beams are super bright but cut off sharply as some european lights do then they are worse than less bright lights that have a bit of scatter, because where the super bright cut off ends everything beyond is plunged into total shade as if its matt black.
Make sure your tyres are good quality, inflated correctly and the brakes are well serviced.
As for driving itself, as traffic approaches you have to have a certain faith, you'll be driving on what you could see before the coming vehicle blinds you, use the other vehicle's lights to inspect the road you are about to cover, don't look directly at the oncoming lights but at the road you are about to reach.
Learn and use the dipswitch correctly, it staggers me the number of people who drive everywhere even at 3.30am when i'm on the way to work on dipped beam only, often enough with one headlight not working.
Switch off any rear fog lights as soon as possible, following extra bright lights soon ruins whatever sliver of night vision one might have left after being assaulted by the new fad of fairy lights so many cars are festooned with.
It must be 30 years since i've needed to use rear fog lights over probably 2 million miles, why people see the need for them when you can see 3 miles through the lightest of mists beats me, extra bright red lights should be brake lights not to be confused with rear fogs almost permanently on.
Never assume that motorcycle approaching you is what it seems, it might prove to be a Transit with not a single light of any description showing on the offside, if the dimwit can't be bothered to fix his blown lights what do you think his driving skills will be.
Drive at a speed you are comfortable with, forget supposed braking distances, learn to drive by the seat of your pants feeling what is happening at the tyres where the importantt stuff happens, does the steering go light on corners could be the road is slippery as will be case in the evenings when the salt goes down, horrid stuff road salt, learn your car and how it handles intimately, you'll get the feel for what is the right speed in any given circumstance.
Edited by Smint on Thursday 19th October 16:24
Tbirdpete said:
Smint said:
Very first lesson, spotlessly clean all windows and lights, if the screen is badly scratched consider replacing it, if you can't see properly you are already losing the battle.
Keep all windows clean, a bright light is one thing but the glare when that bright light spreads over your whole rear or side windows into grime or condensation is something else.
Headlights, some cars have abysmal lights from new which won't get any better as the vehicle ages, if yours are pants consider upgrading the existing bulbs with legal quality brighter bulbs, Philips and Osram both make better output legal bulbs in H4 and H7 fittings, these can make a big difference.
Not everyone can but make sure your lights are not set too low or high, a traffic free road or car park is ideal for some decent setting up of the lights, if you don't know how to yourself get a friend who does to help you.
If the light lenses are cloudy polish them up with one of the kits, if they're beyond that replace them.
You don't need illegal bulb set ups what you need for safe night driving is a little light scatter beyond the dipped beam, if your beams are super bright but cut off sharply as some european lights do then they are worse than less bright lights that have a bit of scatter, because where the super bright cut off ends everything beyond is plunged into total shade as if its matt black.
Make sure your tyres are good quality, inflated correctly and the brakes are well serviced.
As for driving itself, as traffic approaches you have to have a certain faith, you'll be driving on what you could see before the coming vehicle blinds you, use the other vehicle's lights to inspect the road you are about to cover, don't look directly at the oncoming lights but at the road you are about to reach.
Learn and use the dipswitch correctly, it staggers me the number of people who drive everywhere even at 3.30am when i'm on the way to work on dipped beam only, often enough with one headlight not working.
Switch off any rear fog lights as soon as possible, following extra bright lights soon ruins whatever sliver of night vision one might have left after being assaulted by the new fad of fairy lights so many cars are festooned with.
It must be 30 years since i've needed to use rear fog lights over probably 2 million miles, why people see the need for them when you can see 3 miles through the lightest of mists beats me, extra bright red lights should be brake lights not to be confused with rear fogs almost permanently on.
Never assume that motorcycle approaching you is what it seems, it might prove to be a Transit with not a single light of any description showing on the offside, if the dimwit can't be bothered to fix his blown lights what do you think his driving skills will be.
Drive at a speed you are comfortable with, forget supposed braking distances, learn to drive by the seat of your pants feeling what is happening at the tyres where the importantt stuff happens, does the steering go light on corners could be the road is slippery as will be case in the evenings when the salt goes down, horrid stuff road salt, learn your car and how it handles intimately, you'll get the feel for what is the right speed in any given circumstance.
Excellent advice. And one more addition, reduce in-car glare as much as possible e.g. reduce sat-nav and dash light levels.Keep all windows clean, a bright light is one thing but the glare when that bright light spreads over your whole rear or side windows into grime or condensation is something else.
Headlights, some cars have abysmal lights from new which won't get any better as the vehicle ages, if yours are pants consider upgrading the existing bulbs with legal quality brighter bulbs, Philips and Osram both make better output legal bulbs in H4 and H7 fittings, these can make a big difference.
Not everyone can but make sure your lights are not set too low or high, a traffic free road or car park is ideal for some decent setting up of the lights, if you don't know how to yourself get a friend who does to help you.
If the light lenses are cloudy polish them up with one of the kits, if they're beyond that replace them.
You don't need illegal bulb set ups what you need for safe night driving is a little light scatter beyond the dipped beam, if your beams are super bright but cut off sharply as some european lights do then they are worse than less bright lights that have a bit of scatter, because where the super bright cut off ends everything beyond is plunged into total shade as if its matt black.
Make sure your tyres are good quality, inflated correctly and the brakes are well serviced.
As for driving itself, as traffic approaches you have to have a certain faith, you'll be driving on what you could see before the coming vehicle blinds you, use the other vehicle's lights to inspect the road you are about to cover, don't look directly at the oncoming lights but at the road you are about to reach.
Learn and use the dipswitch correctly, it staggers me the number of people who drive everywhere even at 3.30am when i'm on the way to work on dipped beam only, often enough with one headlight not working.
Switch off any rear fog lights as soon as possible, following extra bright lights soon ruins whatever sliver of night vision one might have left after being assaulted by the new fad of fairy lights so many cars are festooned with.
It must be 30 years since i've needed to use rear fog lights over probably 2 million miles, why people see the need for them when you can see 3 miles through the lightest of mists beats me, extra bright red lights should be brake lights not to be confused with rear fogs almost permanently on.
Never assume that motorcycle approaching you is what it seems, it might prove to be a Transit with not a single light of any description showing on the offside, if the dimwit can't be bothered to fix his blown lights what do you think his driving skills will be.
Drive at a speed you are comfortable with, forget supposed braking distances, learn to drive by the seat of your pants feeling what is happening at the tyres where the importantt stuff happens, does the steering go light on corners could be the road is slippery as will be case in the evenings when the salt goes down, horrid stuff road salt, learn your car and how it handles intimately, you'll get the feel for what is the right speed in any given circumstance.
Edited by Smint on Thursday 19th October 16:24
I miss my old Citreon C2, it had a black panel mode, useful for night driving.
Been driving over 45 years, drove from Alloa to Teesside yesterday evening, by far the worst part of the journey was joining the A66 at Penrith and driving to Scotch Corner, the single lane parts of the journey were exactly as others have described. HGV's almost on my side of the road, headlights blinding light in my vision, it was really stressful, I'd never been that bothered before but dark evening driving on busy roads isn't one that I look forward to
ScoobyChris said:
One technique someone gave me that I’ve had success with is to shift your vision to look down and left to the road edge/kerb (which is illuminated by your headlights) just prior to oncoming headlights entering your vision. This has the advantage of avoiding the seconds of temporary blindness while your eyes try and readjust, and the edge of the road gives you something to follow.
Chris
Had to drive part of the way home on a narrow until road this evening due to a road closure. Tried looking down and to the left when someone with HIDs came the other way. Didn't really help. Notably, I couldn't see more than a few meters in front of me so had to slow down to around 10mph to be able to stop within the distance I could see to be clear.Chris
Somewhatfoolish said:
Much as you should have sunglasses to drive in low sun, you should also have yellow tinted glasses to drive at night.
Broadly this doesn't seem to be recommended. https://www.specsavers.co.uk/glasses/driving-glass...
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/are-night-dri...
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology... (taken from the Which? site but only focusses on pedestrian detection)
There is a tread kicking about on General ISTR about bright headlights.
TimmyMallett said:
Somewhatfoolish said:
Much as you should have sunglasses to drive in low sun, you should also have yellow tinted glasses to drive at night.
Broadly this doesn't seem to be recommended. https://www.specsavers.co.uk/glasses/driving-glass...
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/are-night-dri...
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology... (taken from the Which? site but only focusses on pedestrian detection)
There is a tread kicking about on General ISTR about bright headlights.
I attended a talk by an optician on driving glasses.
He recommended polarised sun glasses for use in bright sun & Ziess driving glasses for night time.
I bought a pair of Ziess glasses & they definitely do reduce the glare from oncoming headlights.
Edited by Glosphil on Thursday 17th October 19:38
Just to add another point. Those two headlights close together could be a car some distance away. Or they could be a motorbike with twin headlights and much much closer.
Motorway driving, one technique is to find another vehicle that is being driven sensibly and at about the pace you would like to travel. Adopt a following position well back and use them as a pathfinder.
Motorway driving, one technique is to find another vehicle that is being driven sensibly and at about the pace you would like to travel. Adopt a following position well back and use them as a pathfinder.
Glosphil said:
I attended a talk by an optician on driving glasses.
He recommended polarised sun glasses for use in bright sun & Ziess driving glasses for night time.
I bought a pair of Ziess glasses & they definitely do reduce the glare from oncoming heights.
+1 for Zeiss DriveSafe lenses. I’ve used numerous lenses and found DriveSafe the best. They’re a lot better than regular anti-glare lenses.He recommended polarised sun glasses for use in bright sun & Ziess driving glasses for night time.
I bought a pair of Ziess glasses & they definitely do reduce the glare from oncoming heights.
The only lenses that come close are Hoya EnRoute. Nothing else is in the DriveSafe league.
ScoobyChris said:
Thank you for this - absolutely worth the read, some might say illuminating 
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