Using the whole road space on a dual carriageway

[DriveForFun]

I was taught from early on that on a single carriageway road, as long as there is nothing coming and it is in all other ways safe to do so, you may make use of the entire road space; to smooth out bends, among other reasons.

Is there any reason that a driver could or should not put to use the same principles on a dual carriageway with overtaking lane(s)? E.g., on a bend, use both/all lanes to smooth out the corner. Obviously, after ensuring there is no-one behind or beside you intending to make use of those lanes.

I am guessing it may violate “keep left unless overtaking” because you would not be overtaking anything?

Thanks in advance. Apologies if this is a silly question or has been asked before.

[whimsical ninja]

I do this all the time, but generally only on very empty motorways/DCs, for many reasons but largely because I don't want to confuse and/or antagonise other drivers. For example, I'll quite happily sit in lane 3 on the inside of a gentle bend but keep a wary eye on faster movers behind and I would say I'd probably move back over once the faster traffic gets within 100m or so. Once your driving impacts on others then it's best to stay conventional and therefore predictable.

[Bryanwww]

See many people use this technique on roundabouts, straight lining them to ensure they don't need to waste any of their energy on needless steering inputs. Great when you are beside them and they haven't noticed you or act like their SUV takes priority over all lanes.

Which multi lane road are you going fast enough on public roads that you would need to take the racing line through corners?

The correct thing to do is stay in your lane and slow tf down if you are going fast enough to need more than one lane to take the corner.

It's not advanced driving to use track racing techniques on public roads. Advanced road driving is about leaving room for error on your own part and the errors of others on the road, not going as fast as possible. Your observations might be correct most of the time, but you can absolutely guarantee they are not correct all of the time.

[ScoobyChris]

I do it where there’s an advantage but the big reason not to these days is how it is perceived by other road users.

Chris

Edited by ScoobyChris on Sunday 21st May 19:44

[DriveForFun]

Thanks Ninja and Chris for the constructive replies. I have not tried using this technique on a multi-lane road up to this point and agree with your point about not doing it if it affects other road users. I share the view that it is often best to do what is expected of you by other road users, not what is “correct”!

Bryan - I don’t understand the tone of your post, you seem to have mistook me as someone looking to tear about fast as possible which is not the case. That said it seems you are against using the whole road on single carriageways as well which is a view I’d be interested to hear more about. I’m not here to argue just want to learn and get different opinions. Thanks.

[Bryanwww]

I thought you meant you were ignoring all the lane markings and using all available road space to take a racing line through corners, crossing into other lanes (oncoming or same direction in a dual carriageway situation) to achieve that.

[ScoobyChris]

DriveForFun said:

That said it seems you are against using the whole road on single carriageways as well which is a view I’d be interested to hear more about. I’m not here to argue just want to learn and get different opinions. Thanks.

Tbh, I largely gave up on "offsiding" on single carriageway roads because of the whole perception thing and, weighed up against that, the limited gains. Now I only use it briefly as a pre-cursor to an overtake, although even then it can sometimes spook the target car into braking because they are not sure what you're doing. I will straighten out bends where it's safe to do so though and it's interesting to watch following cars taking a similar line.



Chris

[Pica-Pica]

I have never driven on a dual carriageway, and certainly not a motorway, where a bend is sufficiently tight such that changing lanes on a bend is an advantage. Apart from when overtaking, the most common reason for me changing lanes is to allow someone room to enter the carriageway.

[stogbandard]

The A177 Stockton Road just south of Sedgefied has a dualled section where a nice straight northbound was built whilst keeping using old windy road as the southbound carriageway. It’s normally a quiet piece of road, so it was quite fun to use both lanes when it was quiet: https://maps.app.goo.gl/b7fSVXuzhscRqHyx6?g_st=ic

The killjoy Council then came along and hatched a lane out boo! Hiss! https://maps.app.goo.gl/M3SLpFDpqawafC5Z9?g_st=ic

It’s quite possible that there’s been accidents due to driver swooping across lanes without looking out for other vehicles. Equally it could be a case of political downgrading.

It hasn’t stopped the horrible roundabout designs we get now which insist on tight turns to keep in lane.

This unopened abomination for instance: Dropped pin
https://maps.app.goo.gl/V7yA855Wpg5vDje97?g_st=ic

Compared to this design, where you’re pointed onto the correct lane on the roundabout: https://maps.app.goo.gl/HFtCqcx6QfDg5gst9?g_st=ic

Edited by stogbandard on Monday 22 May 20:56

[trashbat]

The M6 up somewhere near Penrith Sedbergh has enough bends in it that, on a totally empty motorway, it makes just enough sense to straight line them, so I have, at times. And I do mean at 70mph.

Edited by trashbat on Monday 22 May 21:02

[waremark]

Pica-Pica said:

I have never driven on a dual carriageway, and certainly not a motorway, where a bend is sufficiently tight such that changing lanes on a bend is an advantage. Apart from when overtaking, the most common reason for me changing lanes is to allow someone room to enter the carriageway.

There is quite a tight left hand bend on a DC near me for which I think there is a worth-while benefit from being in lane 2 - and I am happy to treat 'use the left lane unless overtaking' as guidance rather than a rule. In other words, if there is a worth-while benefit I would use another lane. On an Advanced Test, I would explain what I was doing, and I would expect the examiner to like it.

Routinely, I move within my lane to improve vision.

[WelshRich]

Counter argument… (a little tongue in cheek)

Most people accept that the most interesting roads have bends in them, so why waste the bends by straightening them out?

[Caddyshack]

ScoobyChris said:

DriveForFun said:

That said it seems you are against using the whole road on single carriageways as well which is a view I’d be interested to hear more about. I’m not here to argue just want to learn and get different opinions. Thanks.

Tbh, I largely gave up on "offsiding" on single carriageway roads because of the whole perception thing and, weighed up against that, the limited gains. Now I only use it briefly as a pre-cursor to an overtake, although even then it can sometimes spook the target car into braking because they are not sure what you're doing. I will straighten out bends where it's safe to do so though and it's interesting to watch following cars taking a similar line.



Chris

I have recently started riding big bikes and riding with very experienced riders but they seem a little unsure when I offside such as getting ready for overtakes, I might hover offside, the bikes make it easier as they are small and you have oodles of acceleration when you want to overtake.

I think you are right that the perception is of a nutter on the "wrong side of the road"

[5s Alive]

trashbat said:

The M6 up somewhere near Penrith Sedbergh has enough bends in it that, on a totally empty motorway, it makes just enough sense to straight line them, so I have, at times. And I do mean at 70mph.

Edited by trashbat on Monday 22 May 21:02

I've also done this on many occasions, mostly in France however it does appear to give the police pause for thought. One quiet evening on the M6, while in lane three, I spotted headlights gaining fast from behind so pulled back to lane one. Traffic car pulls up beside and passenger gives quizzical look. Gave him the because I didn't know how else to respond and off they shot, no doubt with more pressing things to deal with. I was doing 80 when they appeared as a dot in the distance so they were going some!

[911hope]

DriveForFun said:

Thanks Ninja and Chris for the constructive replies. I have not tried using this technique on a multi-lane road up to this point and agree with your point about not doing it if it affects other road users. I share the view that it is often best to do what is expected of you by other road users, not what is “correct”!

Isn't it the case that on dual carriageway, all lanes excepting the inside one are to be used for overtaking only?

In that case using multiple lanes to take the racing line (straightening out the bend) could never be described as "correct"

So doing "what is expected" seems to be a good course of action.

There are armies of fold on PH, who post against mid lane hoggers and their improper lane discipline. I wouldn't what they would think of the "racing line" as a justification.

[Solocle]

911hope said:

Isn't it the case that on dual carriageway, all lanes excepting the inside one are to be used for overtaking only?

In that case using multiple lanes to take the racing line (straightening out the bend) could never be described as "correct"

So doing "what is expected" seems to be a good course of action.

There are armies of fold on PH, who post against mid lane hoggers and their improper lane discipline. I wouldn't what they would think of the "racing line" as a justification.

Umm, there's also the small matter of turning right...

Which saw me cycling in the right hand lane of the A34 a week ago at Winnall Interchange:



There is no offence of "lane hogging". There is the offence of "driving without due care and consideration for other road users".

If you have the road to yourself, monitor your surroundings, and avoid inconveniencing anyone, by moving left in good time when a faster vehicle approaches, then crack on.

[Hol]

WelshRich said:

Counter argument… (a little tongue in cheek)

Most people accept that the most interesting roads have bends in them, so why waste the bends by straightening them out?

I have to agree with the above. I actually enjoy the added challenge of keeping up with the traffic in front, but remaining my side of the dotted line.
Otherwise, what is the point of choosing a twisty B road in the first place? You could get just as much of a challenge from an A road.

[Mammasaid]

Some years ago there was a short stretch of the A66 near Keswick that was a lovely 2 lane twisty dual carriageway what was great to straight-line if quiet. Unfortunately it's now been sanitised to a single lane west-bound enforced by 50 mph Av. Speed Cameras. (check the dates to view before and after)

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.6503069,-3.2216092...

[otolith]

Mammasaid said:

Some years ago there was a short stretch of the A66 near Keswick that was a lovely 2 lane twisty dual carriageway what was great to straight-line if quiet. Unfortunately it's now been sanitised to a single lane west-bound enforced by 50 mph Av. Speed Cameras. (check the dates to view before and after)

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.6503069,-3.2216092...

I once woke up in the passenger seat there, having fallen asleep, and didn't realise it was dualled. The driver appeared to be mid way through a kamikaze overtake...

[Majorslow]

Solocle said:

Umm, there's also the small matter of turning right...

Which saw me cycling in the right hand lane of the A34 a week ago at Winnall Interchange:



There is no offence of "lane hogging". There is the offence of "driving without due care and consideration for other road users".

If you have the road to yourself, monitor your surroundings, and avoid inconveniencing anyone, by moving left in good time when a faster vehicle approaches, then crack on.

Which saw me cycling in the right hand lane of the A34 a week ago at Winnall Interchange: You have to be mad cycling along there.... glad you could tell the tale. That roundabout alone would give me heart palpitations on a bike