How do YOU deal with poor signage on smart motorways?

How do YOU deal with poor signage on smart motorways?

Author
Discussion

Muddle238

Original Poster:

4,015 posts

120 months

Monday 7th November 2022
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In an ideal world, any reduced speed limit on a variable section of smart motorway has a gantry that marks the start of a lower limit (let’s say 50mph for example), followed any relevant “repeater” gantries showing 50, followed eventually by a gantry indicating NSL when the lower variable limit no longer applies.

This is how the Highways people tell us they work and we must obey the displayed speed limit.

However, how often have you been travelling along a section of smart motorway when you pass beneath a lower variable limit displayed, such as 50, followed then by a string of completely blank gantries. Waiting patiently for the NSL, it never comes. You can cover many, many miles, pass several junctions and never pass beneath an NSL sign.

How do you deal with this? Do you;

A) Slow to 50mph, and maintain that until either a different sign eventually comes along, or NSL or end of variable limit signs? (Officially what you’re legally supposed to do)

B) Slow to 50mph, but accelerate back to 70mph after a few blank gantries have passed, despite never passing an NSL?

C) Slow to 50mph, then immediately accelerate back to 70 after passing the gantry? Or even maintain 70 under the gantry if there’s no camera on it?

All assumes late night, quiet motorways, very light traffic, good weather conditions. In other words, there’s no issue doing 70mph if the gantries were left alone and switched firmly off by the Highways monkeys.

I’d be interested to hear peoples views.

Pica-Pica

14,468 posts

91 months

Monday 7th November 2022
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We have had this time and again. There SHOULD be an NSL sign when the reduced limit is removed. However, Highways England have said (in a written response) that if, after a reduced limit, there is no NSL sign, then the gantry will only trigger a camera at the NSL limit. So the gantry camera will only trigger at the posted limit.
For me personally, if after a 50 limit, there were only blank gantries and no NSL sign showing, I would maintain the left lane at around 60mph, or enough to keep clear from HGVs, until I felt confident that the motorway was running back at NSL.

Muddle238

Original Poster:

4,015 posts

120 months

Monday 7th November 2022
quotequote all
Pica-Pica said:
We have had this time and again. There SHOULD be an NSL sign when the reduced limit is removed. However, Highways England have said (in a written response) that if, after a reduced limit, there is no NSL sign, then the gantry will only trigger a camera at the NSL limit. So the gantry camera will only trigger at the posted limit.
For me personally, if after a 50 limit, there were only blank gantries and no NSL sign showing, I would maintain the left lane at around 60mph, or enough to keep clear from HGVs, until I felt confident that the motorway was running back at NSL.
That's all well and good, but at what point does the NSL come back into force? Blank gantries are virtually useless.

Every gantry should really be permanently lit with either NSL, or a lower limit, but never blank. Usually when a lower-than-NSL-limit is posted, you have repeater signs every so often to reiterate the lower limit. Why motorway gantries don't act as repeaters is beyond me; it just leads to confusion, especially when Highways can't be bothered to set an NSL afterwards.

LeoSayer

7,388 posts

251 months

Monday 7th November 2022
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I've always treated blank gantries as NSL.

Now wondering if I've been lucky not to get a NIP.

ToastMan76

530 posts

80 months

Sunday 13th November 2022
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LeoSayer said:
I've always treated blank gantries as NSL.

Now wondering if I've been lucky not to get a NIP.
No you do right, they are NSL. The way the speed is verified on tickets, theres another camera just before the gantry that records what is displayed. If no reduction displayed how could you be breaking the limit

Brassblaster

213 posts

27 months

Sunday 13th November 2022
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In practical terms... Generally I'll wait for two consecutive blank gantries before assuming NSL, to account for the possibility that the first is faulty.

Depends on the circumstances too - if there's roadworks laid out to justify the 50 and they haven't ended yet, I might well maintain the 50 for longer.

Every now and again the reduced speed limit is seemingly meaningless... But usually there's good reason for it so I'd rather be sure the reason has passed before making faster progress again.


Slothly

52 posts

31 months

Monday 28th November 2022
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Happens all too frustratingly often on the M23.

Sometimes slowing the traffic for no discernable reason, sometimes for non-existent roadworks or when passing actual roadworks and no NSL signs on any gantry beyond. Drivers doing 40'ish in all lanes but then some start speeding up whilst others remain at 40mph in lanes 3 or 4. Complete chaos!

Portofino

4,503 posts

198 months

Monday 28th November 2022
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Had this joining the M3 at the weekend where there was a 50 then nothing so I went along 55’ish, then people started coming past me at 70+. Still wasn't sure so stayed there for another minute or two then gave up & got on with my journey.

Glenn63

3,104 posts

91 months

Monday 28th November 2022
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If the sign is blank then NSL, has never failed me and I probably do 70k+ miles a year. If the limit is reduced for a longer period then every sign will show the reduced limit.

nismo48

4,440 posts

214 months

Wednesday 28th December 2022
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Portofino said:
Had this joining the M3 at the weekend where there was a 50 then nothing so I went along 55’ish, then people started coming past me at 70+. Still wasn't sure so stayed there for another minute or two then gave up & got on with my journey.
+1 frustrating and happensfrown

mph999

2,738 posts

227 months

Wednesday 1st February 2023
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I just posted the same question, hadn't seen this post ...

On my way up north the other day, 50mph limit then after a few minutes nothing, no 'end' or NSL sign. I was getting near he M6 at that point so just stayed at 50 till then.

On the way back, 40mph limit for roadworks, cones out. Pass van at the end of cones, and again nothing, all signs blank - I wasn't very popular doing 40 ...
3 miles later (all signs blank until then, so I guess cameras not active) NSL displayed.

mph999

2,738 posts

227 months

Wednesday 1st February 2023
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... another thought

I can't find it, but this is the jest of it.

A chap got caught speeding in circumstances described here - reason for limit had ended (roadworks), and road was 'clear' (ie. no reason to have a lower limit).

Case thrown out (or whatever the legal term is).

BertBert

19,703 posts

218 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
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In all practical respects, the lower limit is not enforced by a camera when its gantry doesn't display the lower limit (as there is no evidence in the gantry photo of the lower limit).

It's about common sense. Last night empty m25, lowered limits (to 40) and lane closures and they had just started to put out the cones. As we got past that, the signs were blank for a few gantries until an NSL displayed,

The few cars there hoofed it back up to 70, happily went through a cam with no flashes.

Bert

stogbandard

391 posts

57 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
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On the M1 yesterday the left lane was closed with a 40mph speed limit to protect a stranded vehicle. After passing the stranded car the following two gantries still had the lane closed with 40 mph speed limit, yet HGVs were pulling into the still closed lane and speeding up. I didn’t follow suit because I didn’t want to be caught using a closed lane, so I stayed in Lane 2 until I approached the first blank gantry.

BlindedByTheLights

1,471 posts

104 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
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M20 today, one gantry with four signs. one lane NSL displayed, other three 50mph.

lsarjant

2 posts

10 months

Saturday 6th January
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Morning all. Yesterday on the motorway I came to road works with the metal 50mph signs on either side on the carriageway. So I'm sitting at 50, when the roadworks ended I accelerated at the NSL metal signs, but further up the motorway was NSL signs on the OH gantry which flashed me? Am I getting a ticket for that?? Thanks everyone.

Patio

659 posts

18 months

Saturday 6th January
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lsarjant said:
Morning all. Yesterday on the motorway I came to road works with the metal 50mph signs on either side on the carriageway. So I'm sitting at 50, when the roadworks ended I accelerated at the NSL metal signs, but further up the motorway was NSL signs on the OH gantry which flashed me? Am I getting a ticket for that?? Thanks everyone.
Accelerated to what speed?

If under 74 you should be fine I'd have thought

Oceanrower

1,046 posts

119 months

Saturday 6th January
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Patio said:
Accelerated to what speed?

If under 74 you should be fine I'd have thought
What magic happens at 74?

car user

703 posts

131 months

Saturday 6th January
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Option C.

If there's no camera on the gantry I ignore them. Just drive to the conditions and not what the signs say.

Had countless journeys up the M6 where the gantries have been displaying nonsense. The usual one is where they just set them to 60 through Birmingham without any excuse. Sometimes you'll get them set to 40 on an empty motorway, or the favourite where they display 2 of the 3 lanes as closed, but then nothing happens and the majority of the traffic are sat queuing in single file trying to work out what's going on.

I'd say that as a minimum I see this happen once per journey. Some nights it can be 3 or 4 times as I traverse the M1 and M6 heading "up norf."

IMO they just make the roads more dangerous. I'm sure someone who works for highways England will along to tell us about all the lives they save.

Patio

659 posts

18 months

Saturday 6th January
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Oceanrower said:
Patio said:
Accelerated to what speed?

If under 74 you should be fine I'd have thought
What magic happens at 74?
You're a whole year younger than 75 obvs