How do YOU deal with poor signage on smart motorways?
Discussion
In an ideal world, any reduced speed limit on a variable section of smart motorway has a gantry that marks the start of a lower limit (let’s say 50mph for example), followed any relevant “repeater” gantries showing 50, followed eventually by a gantry indicating NSL when the lower variable limit no longer applies.
This is how the Highways people tell us they work and we must obey the displayed speed limit.
However, how often have you been travelling along a section of smart motorway when you pass beneath a lower variable limit displayed, such as 50, followed then by a string of completely blank gantries. Waiting patiently for the NSL, it never comes. You can cover many, many miles, pass several junctions and never pass beneath an NSL sign.
How do you deal with this? Do you;
A) Slow to 50mph, and maintain that until either a different sign eventually comes along, or NSL or end of variable limit signs? (Officially what you’re legally supposed to do)
B) Slow to 50mph, but accelerate back to 70mph after a few blank gantries have passed, despite never passing an NSL?
C) Slow to 50mph, then immediately accelerate back to 70 after passing the gantry? Or even maintain 70 under the gantry if there’s no camera on it?
All assumes late night, quiet motorways, very light traffic, good weather conditions. In other words, there’s no issue doing 70mph if the gantries were left alone and switched firmly off by the Highways monkeys.
I’d be interested to hear peoples views.
This is how the Highways people tell us they work and we must obey the displayed speed limit.
However, how often have you been travelling along a section of smart motorway when you pass beneath a lower variable limit displayed, such as 50, followed then by a string of completely blank gantries. Waiting patiently for the NSL, it never comes. You can cover many, many miles, pass several junctions and never pass beneath an NSL sign.
How do you deal with this? Do you;
A) Slow to 50mph, and maintain that until either a different sign eventually comes along, or NSL or end of variable limit signs? (Officially what you’re legally supposed to do)
B) Slow to 50mph, but accelerate back to 70mph after a few blank gantries have passed, despite never passing an NSL?
C) Slow to 50mph, then immediately accelerate back to 70 after passing the gantry? Or even maintain 70 under the gantry if there’s no camera on it?
All assumes late night, quiet motorways, very light traffic, good weather conditions. In other words, there’s no issue doing 70mph if the gantries were left alone and switched firmly off by the Highways monkeys.
I’d be interested to hear peoples views.
We have had this time and again. There SHOULD be an NSL sign when the reduced limit is removed. However, Highways England have said (in a written response) that if, after a reduced limit, there is no NSL sign, then the gantry will only trigger a camera at the NSL limit. So the gantry camera will only trigger at the posted limit.
For me personally, if after a 50 limit, there were only blank gantries and no NSL sign showing, I would maintain the left lane at around 60mph, or enough to keep clear from HGVs, until I felt confident that the motorway was running back at NSL.
For me personally, if after a 50 limit, there were only blank gantries and no NSL sign showing, I would maintain the left lane at around 60mph, or enough to keep clear from HGVs, until I felt confident that the motorway was running back at NSL.
Pica-Pica said:
We have had this time and again. There SHOULD be an NSL sign when the reduced limit is removed. However, Highways England have said (in a written response) that if, after a reduced limit, there is no NSL sign, then the gantry will only trigger a camera at the NSL limit. So the gantry camera will only trigger at the posted limit.
For me personally, if after a 50 limit, there were only blank gantries and no NSL sign showing, I would maintain the left lane at around 60mph, or enough to keep clear from HGVs, until I felt confident that the motorway was running back at NSL.
That's all well and good, but at what point does the NSL come back into force? Blank gantries are virtually useless. For me personally, if after a 50 limit, there were only blank gantries and no NSL sign showing, I would maintain the left lane at around 60mph, or enough to keep clear from HGVs, until I felt confident that the motorway was running back at NSL.
Every gantry should really be permanently lit with either NSL, or a lower limit, but never blank. Usually when a lower-than-NSL-limit is posted, you have repeater signs every so often to reiterate the lower limit. Why motorway gantries don't act as repeaters is beyond me; it just leads to confusion, especially when Highways can't be bothered to set an NSL afterwards.
LeoSayer said:
I've always treated blank gantries as NSL.
Now wondering if I've been lucky not to get a NIP.
No you do right, they are NSL. The way the speed is verified on tickets, theres another camera just before the gantry that records what is displayed. If no reduction displayed how could you be breaking the limitNow wondering if I've been lucky not to get a NIP.
In practical terms... Generally I'll wait for two consecutive blank gantries before assuming NSL, to account for the possibility that the first is faulty.
Depends on the circumstances too - if there's roadworks laid out to justify the 50 and they haven't ended yet, I might well maintain the 50 for longer.
Every now and again the reduced speed limit is seemingly meaningless... But usually there's good reason for it so I'd rather be sure the reason has passed before making faster progress again.
Depends on the circumstances too - if there's roadworks laid out to justify the 50 and they haven't ended yet, I might well maintain the 50 for longer.
Every now and again the reduced speed limit is seemingly meaningless... But usually there's good reason for it so I'd rather be sure the reason has passed before making faster progress again.
Happens all too frustratingly often on the M23.
Sometimes slowing the traffic for no discernable reason, sometimes for non-existent roadworks or when passing actual roadworks and no NSL signs on any gantry beyond. Drivers doing 40'ish in all lanes but then some start speeding up whilst others remain at 40mph in lanes 3 or 4. Complete chaos!
Sometimes slowing the traffic for no discernable reason, sometimes for non-existent roadworks or when passing actual roadworks and no NSL signs on any gantry beyond. Drivers doing 40'ish in all lanes but then some start speeding up whilst others remain at 40mph in lanes 3 or 4. Complete chaos!
I just posted the same question, hadn't seen this post ...
On my way up north the other day, 50mph limit then after a few minutes nothing, no 'end' or NSL sign. I was getting near he M6 at that point so just stayed at 50 till then.
On the way back, 40mph limit for roadworks, cones out. Pass van at the end of cones, and again nothing, all signs blank - I wasn't very popular doing 40 ...
3 miles later (all signs blank until then, so I guess cameras not active) NSL displayed.
On my way up north the other day, 50mph limit then after a few minutes nothing, no 'end' or NSL sign. I was getting near he M6 at that point so just stayed at 50 till then.
On the way back, 40mph limit for roadworks, cones out. Pass van at the end of cones, and again nothing, all signs blank - I wasn't very popular doing 40 ...
3 miles later (all signs blank until then, so I guess cameras not active) NSL displayed.
In all practical respects, the lower limit is not enforced by a camera when its gantry doesn't display the lower limit (as there is no evidence in the gantry photo of the lower limit).
It's about common sense. Last night empty m25, lowered limits (to 40) and lane closures and they had just started to put out the cones. As we got past that, the signs were blank for a few gantries until an NSL displayed,
The few cars there hoofed it back up to 70, happily went through a cam with no flashes.
Bert
It's about common sense. Last night empty m25, lowered limits (to 40) and lane closures and they had just started to put out the cones. As we got past that, the signs were blank for a few gantries until an NSL displayed,
The few cars there hoofed it back up to 70, happily went through a cam with no flashes.
Bert
On the M1 yesterday the left lane was closed with a 40mph speed limit to protect a stranded vehicle. After passing the stranded car the following two gantries still had the lane closed with 40 mph speed limit, yet HGVs were pulling into the still closed lane and speeding up. I didn’t follow suit because I didn’t want to be caught using a closed lane, so I stayed in Lane 2 until I approached the first blank gantry.
Morning all. Yesterday on the motorway I came to road works with the metal 50mph signs on either side on the carriageway. So I'm sitting at 50, when the roadworks ended I accelerated at the NSL metal signs, but further up the motorway was NSL signs on the OH gantry which flashed me? Am I getting a ticket for that?? Thanks everyone.
lsarjant said:
Morning all. Yesterday on the motorway I came to road works with the metal 50mph signs on either side on the carriageway. So I'm sitting at 50, when the roadworks ended I accelerated at the NSL metal signs, but further up the motorway was NSL signs on the OH gantry which flashed me? Am I getting a ticket for that?? Thanks everyone.
Accelerated to what speed?If under 74 you should be fine I'd have thought
Option C.
If there's no camera on the gantry I ignore them. Just drive to the conditions and not what the signs say.
Had countless journeys up the M6 where the gantries have been displaying nonsense. The usual one is where they just set them to 60 through Birmingham without any excuse. Sometimes you'll get them set to 40 on an empty motorway, or the favourite where they display 2 of the 3 lanes as closed, but then nothing happens and the majority of the traffic are sat queuing in single file trying to work out what's going on.
I'd say that as a minimum I see this happen once per journey. Some nights it can be 3 or 4 times as I traverse the M1 and M6 heading "up norf."
IMO they just make the roads more dangerous. I'm sure someone who works for highways England will along to tell us about all the lives they save.
If there's no camera on the gantry I ignore them. Just drive to the conditions and not what the signs say.
Had countless journeys up the M6 where the gantries have been displaying nonsense. The usual one is where they just set them to 60 through Birmingham without any excuse. Sometimes you'll get them set to 40 on an empty motorway, or the favourite where they display 2 of the 3 lanes as closed, but then nothing happens and the majority of the traffic are sat queuing in single file trying to work out what's going on.
I'd say that as a minimum I see this happen once per journey. Some nights it can be 3 or 4 times as I traverse the M1 and M6 heading "up norf."
IMO they just make the roads more dangerous. I'm sure someone who works for highways England will along to tell us about all the lives they save.
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