Discussion
Question has up come and myself and others disagree, just wondering what you guys think.
Approaching a roundabout, basic four roads, 12, 3, 6 and 9.
All roads are dual carriageways and have two lanes.
You approach from 6 going to exit at 3, so you approach in the outside lane.
As you pass 12, do you move over to the inside lane for exit or stay in the outside lane and move over once you have exited the roundabout.
I know if there is no traffic then it makes no difference but if there is a car at 12 on the inside lane indicating left into your 3 o’clock exit, I stay in the outside lane, changing indicator as I pass 12, this allows them the opportunity to enter the roundabout and make their exit at 3.
Even if they are not indicating (may be a beema), I still stay in the outside lane until I have exited the roundabout.
Approaching a roundabout, basic four roads, 12, 3, 6 and 9.
All roads are dual carriageways and have two lanes.
You approach from 6 going to exit at 3, so you approach in the outside lane.
As you pass 12, do you move over to the inside lane for exit or stay in the outside lane and move over once you have exited the roundabout.
I know if there is no traffic then it makes no difference but if there is a car at 12 on the inside lane indicating left into your 3 o’clock exit, I stay in the outside lane, changing indicator as I pass 12, this allows them the opportunity to enter the roundabout and make their exit at 3.
Even if they are not indicating (may be a beema), I still stay in the outside lane until I have exited the roundabout.
The highway code pictures it well in my opinion, for a standard roundabout. Exit on the left lane, unless there's a good reason to exit on the right (i.e. turning right imminently, overtaking). It does my nut in if i'm forced to exit on the right lane because someone thinks they can just pull out as they are turning left as you describe. But there seems to be plenty of people who have the belief they can just pull out as if they have the right of way.
There are some roundabout layouts which don't help mind you. Here's one where I live and you can just about make out the directonal arrows on approach, and also the lanes spiraling off in 3 of the directions. They are broken lines as opposed to solid lines so to be honest I tend to still exit on the left lane if i'm turning right (for example coming from East and going North) but, like all roundabouts, always worth that extra glance over the shoulder.
What I don't like about this layout is:
1) People regularly pull out if they are turning left in front of you, even as you're literally passing their exit. Giving way to traffic on the roundabout doesn't seem to apply and I think the layout convinces people that they have some type of filter lane. Keeps you alert if nothing else.
2) You have to cross over the lines if you are going straight on (i.e. you're in the left lane from the West going straight so exiting East) - not such a big deal i suppose. But if you were literally driving to the roundabout lanes, then you could be in the right lane and turn left (crossing over cars on the left lane going straight on). I'm not sure if they could argue they are in the right given they aren't crossing or changing the marked lanes.
There are some roundabout layouts which don't help mind you. Here's one where I live and you can just about make out the directonal arrows on approach, and also the lanes spiraling off in 3 of the directions. They are broken lines as opposed to solid lines so to be honest I tend to still exit on the left lane if i'm turning right (for example coming from East and going North) but, like all roundabouts, always worth that extra glance over the shoulder.
What I don't like about this layout is:
1) People regularly pull out if they are turning left in front of you, even as you're literally passing their exit. Giving way to traffic on the roundabout doesn't seem to apply and I think the layout convinces people that they have some type of filter lane. Keeps you alert if nothing else.
2) You have to cross over the lines if you are going straight on (i.e. you're in the left lane from the West going straight so exiting East) - not such a big deal i suppose. But if you were literally driving to the roundabout lanes, then you could be in the right lane and turn left (crossing over cars on the left lane going straight on). I'm not sure if they could argue they are in the right given they aren't crossing or changing the marked lanes.
Rule 185 - my pet hate is the very top green arrow, which allows people to change lane at the exit. And is one of the main causes of collisions at roundabouts. It also seems to encourage 'racing line' around roundabouts, where people will also change lane half way around, from lane 1 to lane 2, before then changing at the exit from lane 2 back to lane 1.
This is one diagram/rule that could easily be changed that would save a LOT of hassle at common roundabouts in the UK.
This is one diagram/rule that could easily be changed that would save a LOT of hassle at common roundabouts in the UK.
GroundZero said:
Rule 185 - my pet hate is the very top green arrow, which allows people to change lane at the exit. And is one of the main causes of collisions at roundabouts. It also seems to encourage 'racing line' around roundabouts, where people will also change lane half way around, from lane 1 to lane 2, before then changing at the exit from lane 2 back to lane 1.
Not sure I agree with you there - the green arrow depicts someone turning right and confirms that you can choose either lane to exit because, in the roundabout shown, that person should not have anyone on the left of them or pulling out on them. To me it means you should really exit left but you have the option of using the right lane if needed (for whatever legitimate reason). They aren't changing lane by exiting to the left any more than if they were exiting to the right lane. If you weren't allowed to change lane on the roundabout, you would never be allowed to leave the inner ring of the roundabout. I think the racing line you mention is when going straight on - in the Highway Code this is shown in the blue arrow and, as you can see, doesn't show the racing line approach (which, let's be honest, we've all done on occasion - the danger being when people do it without knowing if someone is to their right).
Triumph Man said:
Putting everything aside, why do some people insist on positioning in the left lane to take the "straight on" (for simplicities sake) exit, but indicate right?!
I think these people think they are helping others by doing the opposite of indicating off, but end up causing more confusion as a result. It's very nervy being next to someone like that when they are in the left lane and you are in the right lane (i.e. going through a roundabout on a dual carriagway). You would think it's very simple - i.e. indicate right when turning right (i.e. anything past 12 o'clock) and indicate left when you're taking the next available exit. But this forum will always find people convinced the opposite is true.
Vipers said:
Question has up come and myself and others disagree, just wondering what you guys think.
Approaching a roundabout, basic four roads, 12, 3, 6 and 9.
All roads are dual carriageways and have two lanes.
You approach from 6 going to exit at 3, so you approach in the outside lane.
As you pass 12, do you move over to the inside lane for exit or stay in the outside lane and move over once you have exited the roundabout.
I know if there is no traffic then it makes no difference but if there is a car at 12 on the inside lane indicating left into your 3 o’clock exit, I stay in the outside lane, changing indicator as I pass 12, this allows them the opportunity to enter the roundabout and make their exit at 3.
Even if they are not indicating (may be a beema), I still stay in the outside lane until I have exited the roundabout.
No right or wrong, IMO, as the car waiting to enter at 12 should wait for you to pass him before entering the roundabout. Approaching a roundabout, basic four roads, 12, 3, 6 and 9.
All roads are dual carriageways and have two lanes.
You approach from 6 going to exit at 3, so you approach in the outside lane.
As you pass 12, do you move over to the inside lane for exit or stay in the outside lane and move over once you have exited the roundabout.
I know if there is no traffic then it makes no difference but if there is a car at 12 on the inside lane indicating left into your 3 o’clock exit, I stay in the outside lane, changing indicator as I pass 12, this allows them the opportunity to enter the roundabout and make their exit at 3.
Even if they are not indicating (may be a beema), I still stay in the outside lane until I have exited the roundabout.
But, "lane 1/2" please, not "inside/outside". That's
Imagine laying 6 pieces of string, parallel to each other, to signify a 2 x 3 lane motorway. (Or 4 pieces of string to indicate 2x2 lanes, if you prefer.) Which pieces of string are on the "outside"?
(Yes pedantic but road layouts are my job and it's hard to take questions seriously when the terminology is so inaccurate.)
do what you like on a roundabout within reason, but remember that the highway code specifically tells you to allow for other drivers, even if they are not doing what you expect...
the onus is on you as a driver to avoid accidents, and it is why our legislation is generally based on priority not rights...
so, take any route you like which causes minimal involvement / hassle / etc. with and for others.
the onus is on you as a driver to avoid accidents, and it is why our legislation is generally based on priority not rights...
so, take any route you like which causes minimal involvement / hassle / etc. with and for others.
GroundZero said:
Rule 185 - my pet hate is the very top green arrow, which allows people to change lane at the exit. And is one of the main causes of collisions at roundabouts. It also seems to encourage 'racing line' around roundabouts, where people will also change lane half way around, from lane 1 to lane 2, before then changing at the exit from lane 2 back to lane 1.
This is one diagram/rule that could easily be changed that would save a LOT of hassle at common roundabouts in the UK.
But the alternative is obliging all traffic turning right to exit into the overtaking lane, isn't it? One of my pet peeves is people doing that when there's nothing for them to overtake.This is one diagram/rule that could easily be changed that would save a LOT of hassle at common roundabouts in the UK.
(i say in jest)Pet hates/accident hotspots:
Green car taking the first left exit to jump the queue when the road markings are straight on or right for that lane. Bonus points for going right round the roundabout to jump the queue in the left lane. Entitlement personified.
Green car taking the second exit when road markings indicate right turn only.
Green car taking the roundabout at warp speed and then getting shirty when they encounter cars entering the roundabout
Blue car turning right unless indicated by road markings.
All drivers who don't indicate at all.
It's not necessarily wrong to change lanes mid roundabout - some are complex and if you don't change mid roundabout you will be in the wrong lane for your exit. If everyone treated roundabouts as marshalling yards and organisation points rather than get one over on someone and overtaking opportunities, traffic would flow so much better. People with local knowledge are often the worst for this.
Green car taking the first left exit to jump the queue when the road markings are straight on or right for that lane. Bonus points for going right round the roundabout to jump the queue in the left lane. Entitlement personified.
Green car taking the second exit when road markings indicate right turn only.
Green car taking the roundabout at warp speed and then getting shirty when they encounter cars entering the roundabout
Blue car turning right unless indicated by road markings.
All drivers who don't indicate at all.
It's not necessarily wrong to change lanes mid roundabout - some are complex and if you don't change mid roundabout you will be in the wrong lane for your exit. If everyone treated roundabouts as marshalling yards and organisation points rather than get one over on someone and overtaking opportunities, traffic would flow so much better. People with local knowledge are often the worst for this.
Unreal said:
Pet hates/accident hotspots:
Green car taking the first left exit to jump the queue when the road markings are straight on or right for that lane. Bonus points for going right round the roundabout to jump the queue in the left lane. Entitlement personified.
Green car taking the second exit when road markings indicate right turn only.
Green car taking the roundabout at warp speed and then getting shirty when they encounter cars entering the roundabout
Blue car turning right unless indicated by road markings.
All drivers who don't indicate at all.
It's not necessarily wrong to change lanes mid roundabout - some are complex and if you don't change mid roundabout you will be in the wrong lane for your exit. If everyone treated roundabouts as marshalling yards and organisation points rather than get one over on someone and overtaking opportunities, traffic would flow so much better. People with local knowledge are often the worst for this.
had it twice this week where blue car has come all the way round to be orange car. Green car taking the first left exit to jump the queue when the road markings are straight on or right for that lane. Bonus points for going right round the roundabout to jump the queue in the left lane. Entitlement personified.
Green car taking the second exit when road markings indicate right turn only.
Green car taking the roundabout at warp speed and then getting shirty when they encounter cars entering the roundabout
Blue car turning right unless indicated by road markings.
All drivers who don't indicate at all.
It's not necessarily wrong to change lanes mid roundabout - some are complex and if you don't change mid roundabout you will be in the wrong lane for your exit. If everyone treated roundabouts as marshalling yards and organisation points rather than get one over on someone and overtaking opportunities, traffic would flow so much better. People with local knowledge are often the worst for this.
SteveStrange said:
No right or wrong, IMO, as the car waiting to enter at 12 should wait for you to pass him before entering the roundabout.
But, "lane 1/2" please, not "inside/outside". That'snearly as bad as calling them "slow" and "fast" lanes.
Imagine laying 6 pieces of string, parallel to each other, to signify a 2 x 3 lane motorway. (Or 4 pieces of string to indicate 2x2 lanes, if you prefer.) Which pieces of string are on the "outside"?
(Yes pedantic but road layouts are my job and it's hard to take questions seriously when the terminology is so inaccurate.)
Thank you, lane 1 and lane 2 it is, and after reading the comments, I tend to agree there is no right or wrong, personally if I am in lane 2, I stay there until I complete my exit.But, "lane 1/2" please, not "inside/outside". That's
Imagine laying 6 pieces of string, parallel to each other, to signify a 2 x 3 lane motorway. (Or 4 pieces of string to indicate 2x2 lanes, if you prefer.) Which pieces of string are on the "outside"?
(Yes pedantic but road layouts are my job and it's hard to take questions seriously when the terminology is so inaccurate.)
Up in Aberdeen one main road has about 6 roundabouts, I once followed a motorists who went straight over at each one, approached in lane 1 indicating right, and cancelled as he passed the first exit, did the exact same on every roundabout.
Amazing that some manage to pass their test.
Thank you all for your comments, much appreciated.
No textbook right/wrong as far as I'm concerned but the nightmare (and common) is if you decide to stay in lane 2, but there's a car in lane 1 who appears to be going straight on (eg from 12 to 6 as you come off at 3, ie what the blue car is doing in the picture above), and maybe a car's length behind you. No good option here - you have to cut across them, or let them pass you. Copious mirror checks and early indicating are critical, and if you're going to cut across it might need a little burst of acceleration.
If roundabout is busy it's probably less stressful to ease over to the nearside lane at a convenient point and avoid confrontation
If roundabout is busy it's probably less stressful to ease over to the nearside lane at a convenient point and avoid confrontation
donkmeister said:
But the alternative is obliging all traffic turning right to exit into the overtaking lane, isn't it? One of my pet peeves is people doing that when there's nothing for them to overtake.
Yes, that would be my preference. And it would simply mean changing lane on a straight section of road just beyond the roundabout at the driver's earliest opportunity. Much safer than changing lane at the exit point of a roundabout.My work office used to be close to a busy roundabout where we could see the traffic going round. Every week there were minor collisions, the two most common were at the exit points, with traffic changing lanes, and the other was at the entry point where people are simply not looking ahead when moving forward, running in to people who are giving way.
I've no issues with straight lining roundabouts and was taught to do it but ONLY if there's noone else around you. My pet hate is people doing it when you're side by side (in the outside lane) or on their tail.
Although does anyone else have a spidey sense and can tell when someone is going to straight line a roundabout? I do this often even when the car is positioned correctly on entry. I can't say what it is but seem to spot it a mile off and has saved my left wing countless times.
Personally I find that people just don't know how to use them and have seen all sorts. I see a lot of people going from 6 to 3 or 6 to 6 in the inside lane, causing all manner of havoc. Far too many enter unsighted roundabouts at speed because they think they have right of way always. But don't consider if people can't see you approaching they have to enter and they then have right of way. Although the best one I've seen is someone missing their exit, stop and reverse instead of going all the way round!
Although does anyone else have a spidey sense and can tell when someone is going to straight line a roundabout? I do this often even when the car is positioned correctly on entry. I can't say what it is but seem to spot it a mile off and has saved my left wing countless times.
Personally I find that people just don't know how to use them and have seen all sorts. I see a lot of people going from 6 to 3 or 6 to 6 in the inside lane, causing all manner of havoc. Far too many enter unsighted roundabouts at speed because they think they have right of way always. But don't consider if people can't see you approaching they have to enter and they then have right of way. Although the best one I've seen is someone missing their exit, stop and reverse instead of going all the way round!
Yep, can be mayhem at times when you have a critical number of people who drive ignorant of others around them.
I was going to say those that don't understand rules of roundabouts, but then I've always thought the Highway Code was lacking in real-world examples of roundabouts. As we see in Rule 185 diagram, it shows a very simple two-lane entry, with two-lane exit, with no circular road markings.
Where a good percentage of roundabouts in the UK look nothing like this.
Many have both two and one lane exits, where merging is required.
Many have three lanes on the circular.
Many have road markings on the circular.
Many are signalised.
And most times in the real world there is often traffic to the left of vehicles at both entry and exit points. Where traffic can also move at different speeds to move alongside other traffic at any point on the circular.
I guess its one of those cases in the Highway Code where they say "over to you, sort it out yourselves"
(in a similar way they don't define who has the onus of giving way when merging at the end of dual-carriageways).
The only problem being that there are plenty on the roads these days that have the attitude "get out of my way or accept that we'll crash".
I was going to say those that don't understand rules of roundabouts, but then I've always thought the Highway Code was lacking in real-world examples of roundabouts. As we see in Rule 185 diagram, it shows a very simple two-lane entry, with two-lane exit, with no circular road markings.
Where a good percentage of roundabouts in the UK look nothing like this.
Many have both two and one lane exits, where merging is required.
Many have three lanes on the circular.
Many have road markings on the circular.
Many are signalised.
And most times in the real world there is often traffic to the left of vehicles at both entry and exit points. Where traffic can also move at different speeds to move alongside other traffic at any point on the circular.
I guess its one of those cases in the Highway Code where they say "over to you, sort it out yourselves"
(in a similar way they don't define who has the onus of giving way when merging at the end of dual-carriageways).The only problem being that there are plenty on the roads these days that have the attitude "get out of my way or accept that we'll crash".
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