What exactly is expected on a driving test?
Discussion
My wife and I have just had to "let her driving instructor go" after one too many problems. Her test is coming up in November - she's taking it in her own car. A few things that have come up when she's been practicing driving with me as a supervisor - can anyone clarify exactly what would be expected on a test?
Thinking aloud a little here - there may be more!
1. If she's asked to drive forward into a parking bay in a car park... does she have to stop dead parallel to the white lines? She seems convinced she does (and any deviation of the car's position, relative to the white lines, by 1-2 degrees of rotation could be marked as a minor fault). Is this correct?
I remember when I took my test 16 years ago, if the car finishes the parking manoeuvre fully within the marked bay, and does not cross into an adjacent bay while making the manoeuvre, the examiner would consider this correct. Things may have changed.
2. If she's driving down a road with a bus lane with limited hours of operation along the inside - e.g. Monday to Friday 7am to 10am, and the test is at 11am - will she be expected to drive in that non-active bus lane even if she will find herself regularly obstructed by parked vehicles?
She seems convinced she will be required to. My impression would be that she would be best off remaining in the outside live driving lane, to avoid having to switch lanes regularly (and impede her own smooth progress) to avoid the parked vehicles.
3. My understanding is that the Highway Code requires a vehicle to stop and give way to a pedestrian on a zebra crossing only if that pedestrian has stepped foot on to the zebra crossing. If the pedestrian is waiting by the side of the road by the zebra crossing, it is advisable for vehicles to stop, but they would have no legal obligation to do so.
What would be required on a driving test?
My instructor has made my wife convinced that, if she sees anyone waiting to cross a road, regardless of whether or not it is by a zebra crossing, she would be expected to stop the vehicle to give way to the pedestrian.
I feel the instructor has rather over-zealously interpreted the guidance in the new Highway Code, that vehicles "should" (not "must") give way to pedestrians waiting to cross a side road the driver is turning into.
4. She's taking the test in her Mazda MX-5 - we've checked with the test centre that this is an acceptable vehicle. Would she be allowed to take the test with the roof down, assuming that it's not pelting it down with rain?
5. If she is honked at by an angry South London driver taking exception to her driving at 20 mph in a 20 limit... is this an automatic minor fault? She seems convinced it is... my understanding is that a horn is legally to be used "to alert another road user of your presence", so she can just ignore the impatient moron?
I appreciate that 'major and minor' faults are now termed 'serious and driver' faults... forgive the parlance.
Thanks!
Thinking aloud a little here - there may be more!
1. If she's asked to drive forward into a parking bay in a car park... does she have to stop dead parallel to the white lines? She seems convinced she does (and any deviation of the car's position, relative to the white lines, by 1-2 degrees of rotation could be marked as a minor fault). Is this correct?
I remember when I took my test 16 years ago, if the car finishes the parking manoeuvre fully within the marked bay, and does not cross into an adjacent bay while making the manoeuvre, the examiner would consider this correct. Things may have changed.
2. If she's driving down a road with a bus lane with limited hours of operation along the inside - e.g. Monday to Friday 7am to 10am, and the test is at 11am - will she be expected to drive in that non-active bus lane even if she will find herself regularly obstructed by parked vehicles?
She seems convinced she will be required to. My impression would be that she would be best off remaining in the outside live driving lane, to avoid having to switch lanes regularly (and impede her own smooth progress) to avoid the parked vehicles.
3. My understanding is that the Highway Code requires a vehicle to stop and give way to a pedestrian on a zebra crossing only if that pedestrian has stepped foot on to the zebra crossing. If the pedestrian is waiting by the side of the road by the zebra crossing, it is advisable for vehicles to stop, but they would have no legal obligation to do so.
What would be required on a driving test?
My instructor has made my wife convinced that, if she sees anyone waiting to cross a road, regardless of whether or not it is by a zebra crossing, she would be expected to stop the vehicle to give way to the pedestrian.
I feel the instructor has rather over-zealously interpreted the guidance in the new Highway Code, that vehicles "should" (not "must") give way to pedestrians waiting to cross a side road the driver is turning into.
4. She's taking the test in her Mazda MX-5 - we've checked with the test centre that this is an acceptable vehicle. Would she be allowed to take the test with the roof down, assuming that it's not pelting it down with rain?
5. If she is honked at by an angry South London driver taking exception to her driving at 20 mph in a 20 limit... is this an automatic minor fault? She seems convinced it is... my understanding is that a horn is legally to be used "to alert another road user of your presence", so she can just ignore the impatient moron?
I appreciate that 'major and minor' faults are now termed 'serious and driver' faults... forgive the parlance.
Thanks!
From doing my Bike licence last year, I was told to use the bus lane if and when the lane allows. As someone else says, if she really can't because cars are parked in the lane, then for sure commentary.
Again, from my Bike test last year, there was a pedestrian approaching the crossing but about 6ft away. I went, and confirmed after that as they weren't waiting, I was within my right to go. If someone was stood waiting, then you'd be expected to stop.
Does she want the roof down to improve visibility?
And no, if someone beeps at her for obeying the speed limit, she won't get a minor.
Again, from my Bike test last year, there was a pedestrian approaching the crossing but about 6ft away. I went, and confirmed after that as they weren't waiting, I was within my right to go. If someone was stood waiting, then you'd be expected to stop.
Does she want the roof down to improve visibility?
And no, if someone beeps at her for obeying the speed limit, she won't get a minor.
angoooose said:
These questions are what you pay an ADI for
He was hopeless and refused to answer such questions clearly. We don't have time to find another ADI and my wife has a perfectly decent car to take her test on.
She's been taking lessons since mid-2019, only for Covid to utterly scupper things.
She should be (in my book, she is) perfectly at, if not beyond, test standard. I just want to ensure she doesn't fail on some silly technicality I've overlooked.
PistonRings said:
From doing my Bike licence last year, I was told to use the bus lane if and when the lane allows. As someone else says, if she really can't because cars are parked in the lane, then for sure commentary.
Again, from my Bike test last year, there was a pedestrian approaching the crossing but about 6ft away. I went, and confirmed after that as they weren't waiting, I was within my right to go. If someone was stood waiting, then you'd be expected to stop.
Does she want the roof down to improve visibility?
And no, if someone beeps at her for obeying the speed limit, she won't get a minor.
Pedestrians waiting to cross - I've been driving for 16 years, and I will instinctively know when it's safer to let pedestrians cross, as opposed to letting them take their chances with whatever South London lunatic in a PCPed white Audi is behind me.Again, from my Bike test last year, there was a pedestrian approaching the crossing but about 6ft away. I went, and confirmed after that as they weren't waiting, I was within my right to go. If someone was stood waiting, then you'd be expected to stop.
Does she want the roof down to improve visibility?
And no, if someone beeps at her for obeying the speed limit, she won't get a minor.
However - it is unclear as to whether, on a driving test, you'd be expected to slow down and allow any/all pedestrians to cross at any reasonable location. If we all did this, in an urban area, traffic would never move. This is why we have zebra crossings.
I'm just advising my wife to use commentary wisely.
Roof down - yes, to improve visibility. That MX-5 is a piece of piss to parallel park topless. If she is allowed to, why not?
I hope it's ok to say this, but from your narrative your wife is convinced of a number of very illogical things. I'm not sure she's thinking for herself. Apologies if that sounds rude, not meant to be.
As part of the modern world there are so many internet resources available, they would help release her from her misconceptions perhaps.
As part of the modern world there are so many internet resources available, they would help release her from her misconceptions perhaps.
https://www.gov.uk/driving-test/using-your-own-car
Check if your car can be used before booking a test
You can check if your car can be used by contacting the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA).
Always check if you want to use a:
convertible car
On the pedestrians waiting to cross issue - I would expect to adhere to the new HWC recommendation to give way to pedestrians waiting to cross at a ped crossing or a junction where the driver is turning, although giving way in such circumstances causes confusion because the pedestrians probably don't expect it and certainly cannot rely on it.
I taught my three children and they all passed first time. My daughter took the test in her own car. I believe she was let off what would otherwise have been a serious fault because other aspects of her driving were very good (though you certainly could not rely on that happening).
Check if your car can be used before booking a test
You can check if your car can be used by contacting the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA).
Always check if you want to use a:
convertible car
On the pedestrians waiting to cross issue - I would expect to adhere to the new HWC recommendation to give way to pedestrians waiting to cross at a ped crossing or a junction where the driver is turning, although giving way in such circumstances causes confusion because the pedestrians probably don't expect it and certainly cannot rely on it.
I taught my three children and they all passed first time. My daughter took the test in her own car. I believe she was let off what would otherwise have been a serious fault because other aspects of her driving were very good (though you certainly could not rely on that happening).
BertBert said:
I hope it's ok to say this, but from your narrative your wife is convinced of a number of very illogical things. I'm not sure she's thinking for herself. Apologies if that sounds rude, not meant to be.
Part of why I advised her to stop handing her ADI £56 every Monday for him to spend two hours just talking complete drivel at her...BertBert said:
As part of the modern world there are so many internet resources available, they would help release her from her misconceptions perhaps.
Hence why I'm posting on PH!waremark said:
https://www.gov.uk/driving-test/using-your-own-car
Check if your car can be used before booking a test
You can check if your car can be used by contacting the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA).
Always check if you want to use a:
convertible car
Have previously called the test centre and asked. The MX-5 is fine in their book.Check if your car can be used before booking a test
You can check if your car can be used by contacting the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA).
Always check if you want to use a:
convertible car
What they couldn't confirm is whether she'd be allowed to do the test with the top folded down - they didn't really seem to understand the concept!
The real pain behind our current predicament is that, if you fail your driving test you will have at least a year's wait before you can take one again at your test centre of choice. COVID nonsense has completely overwhelmed the DVSA and this will remain the case for the forseeable future.
We only managed to book her upcoming test by logging in via a VPN (to avoid being blocked out of the website by being seen as a cyber-attacker!) at 6am one day and constantly refreshing.
When I failed my test back in 2006, I was able to rebook (and pass) the following Tuesday. This is simply impossible now.
My wife's first theory pass expired during the first lockdown, when she wasn't even able to take a driving lesson for about 9 months. The two year validity is utterly hopeless.
I have another friend currently learning to drive - he keeps paying an ADI £200 to book him tests, which he fails, (RRP £61-ish) on the black market.
We only managed to book her upcoming test by logging in via a VPN (to avoid being blocked out of the website by being seen as a cyber-attacker!) at 6am one day and constantly refreshing.
When I failed my test back in 2006, I was able to rebook (and pass) the following Tuesday. This is simply impossible now.
My wife's first theory pass expired during the first lockdown, when she wasn't even able to take a driving lesson for about 9 months. The two year validity is utterly hopeless.
I have another friend currently learning to drive - he keeps paying an ADI £200 to book him tests, which he fails, (RRP £61-ish) on the black market.
Regarding 1.
"Candidates should park within a bay, but examiners should not be too concerned, when making their
assessment, of the final position of the car in the bay. Parking outside the bay is unacceptable. Candidates
should not normally be penalised for crossing the lines when entering the bay. Examiners should consider
whether the car could reasonably be left, in that car park in the prevailing conditions, in that position.
Exceptionally the examiner may feel the need to leave the car before making an assessment. This is
acceptable provided the candidate is asked to secure the car and stop the engine."
This is from DT1Examiner Guidance although it's dated 2017, with updates available here; https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
Just another thought; as you've been in touch with the local test centre why not give them a call, explain your situation and see if one of the examiners can spare you a few minutes for a chat?
"Candidates should park within a bay, but examiners should not be too concerned, when making their
assessment, of the final position of the car in the bay. Parking outside the bay is unacceptable. Candidates
should not normally be penalised for crossing the lines when entering the bay. Examiners should consider
whether the car could reasonably be left, in that car park in the prevailing conditions, in that position.
Exceptionally the examiner may feel the need to leave the car before making an assessment. This is
acceptable provided the candidate is asked to secure the car and stop the engine."
This is from DT1Examiner Guidance although it's dated 2017, with updates available here; https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-for-driving-e...
Just another thought; as you've been in touch with the local test centre why not give them a call, explain your situation and see if one of the examiners can spare you a few minutes for a chat?
Recently retired examiner here, hopefully I can resolve some of your questions, though some answers already have done so already:
As 7Mike posted, crossing lines either entering the bay or exiting is not an issue. The final position is quite ‘fluid’ in that being perfectly in the bay isn’t the be all and end all. It’s nice, and of course wouldn’t attract any fault to be marked. The further away from perfect the more chance you have of a driving fault (minor). It is very much an outcome based system of marking. Also be aware if she doesn’t manage to get it right the first time she can make a correction to her position but don’t make a meal of it.
Your impression would be correct and I’d much rather see good forwards planning if the bus lane has parked vehicles in it and stay in the live lane than darting in and out, plus there is more chance of her being boxed into the bus lane if it's a busy road!
Your understanding of the Highway Code is correct, however I would be looking for her to prepare to stop if safe to do so, and also be aware of anyone approaching with the potential to cross and is she in a position to safely stop if they do step off the curb. If she were to be approaching at say 30 mph with little chance of stopping that could go serious or dangerous very quickly! She does not need to stop to let people cross if they are just randomly standing at the side of the road, I’d be concerned about a rear end shunt here particularly if the following vehicles aren’t expecting a stop.
With regards to the new HC rules on pedestrians as you understand it does say ‘should’ give way and a degree of common sense should prevail here. Pedestrians do appear to be confused by this and I found that most of them didn’t respond to the car slowing/stopping. The guidance on this is that if they do not stop if they can but the pedestrian is on the pavement then that will attract a driving fault (minor)
No problem with the car, however I’d be very surprised if they took it out with the top down, health and safety!
Not an issue here at all, she’s done nothing wrong.
Hope this helps, happy to answer anything else.
As 7Mike posted, crossing lines either entering the bay or exiting is not an issue. The final position is quite ‘fluid’ in that being perfectly in the bay isn’t the be all and end all. It’s nice, and of course wouldn’t attract any fault to be marked. The further away from perfect the more chance you have of a driving fault (minor). It is very much an outcome based system of marking. Also be aware if she doesn’t manage to get it right the first time she can make a correction to her position but don’t make a meal of it.
Your impression would be correct and I’d much rather see good forwards planning if the bus lane has parked vehicles in it and stay in the live lane than darting in and out, plus there is more chance of her being boxed into the bus lane if it's a busy road!
Your understanding of the Highway Code is correct, however I would be looking for her to prepare to stop if safe to do so, and also be aware of anyone approaching with the potential to cross and is she in a position to safely stop if they do step off the curb. If she were to be approaching at say 30 mph with little chance of stopping that could go serious or dangerous very quickly! She does not need to stop to let people cross if they are just randomly standing at the side of the road, I’d be concerned about a rear end shunt here particularly if the following vehicles aren’t expecting a stop.
With regards to the new HC rules on pedestrians as you understand it does say ‘should’ give way and a degree of common sense should prevail here. Pedestrians do appear to be confused by this and I found that most of them didn’t respond to the car slowing/stopping. The guidance on this is that if they do not stop if they can but the pedestrian is on the pavement then that will attract a driving fault (minor)
No problem with the car, however I’d be very surprised if they took it out with the top down, health and safety!
Not an issue here at all, she’s done nothing wrong.
Hope this helps, happy to answer anything else.
lobster940 said:
The real pain behind our current predicament is that, if you fail your driving test you will have at least a year's wait before you can take one again at your test centre of choice. COVID nonsense has completely overwhelmed the DVSA and this will remain the case for the forseeable future.
We only managed to book her upcoming test by logging in via a VPN (to avoid being blocked out of the website by being seen as a cyber-attacker!) at 6am one day and constantly refreshing.
When I failed my test back in 2006, I was able to rebook (and pass) the following Tuesday. This is simply impossible now.
My wife's first theory pass expired during the first lockdown, when she wasn't even able to take a driving lesson for about 9 months. The two year validity is utterly hopeless.
I have another friend currently learning to drive - he keeps paying an ADI £200 to book him tests, which he fails, (RRP £61-ish) on the black market.
Just read this and it isn’t true. My son and a couple of his friends have failed and then retaken within very short periods recently. You book a re-test anywhere you can find one, and then sign on with a company who contact you with cancellations at your test centre of choice. I don’t think it was particularly expensive. Son was on his way through a red light on his first attempt at an admittedly confusing junction. On the second one he was fine.We only managed to book her upcoming test by logging in via a VPN (to avoid being blocked out of the website by being seen as a cyber-attacker!) at 6am one day and constantly refreshing.
When I failed my test back in 2006, I was able to rebook (and pass) the following Tuesday. This is simply impossible now.
My wife's first theory pass expired during the first lockdown, when she wasn't even able to take a driving lesson for about 9 months. The two year validity is utterly hopeless.
I have another friend currently learning to drive - he keeps paying an ADI £200 to book him tests, which he fails, (RRP £61-ish) on the black market.
Foss62 said:
lobster940 said:
The real pain behind our current predicament is that, if you fail your driving test you will have at least a year's wait before you can take one again at your test centre of choice. COVID nonsense has completely overwhelmed the DVSA and this will remain the case for the forseeable future.
We only managed to book her upcoming test by logging in via a VPN (to avoid being blocked out of the website by being seen as a cyber-attacker!) at 6am one day and constantly refreshing.
When I failed my test back in 2006, I was able to rebook (and pass) the following Tuesday. This is simply impossible now.
My wife's first theory pass expired during the first lockdown, when she wasn't even able to take a driving lesson for about 9 months. The two year validity is utterly hopeless.
I have another friend currently learning to drive - he keeps paying an ADI £200 to book him tests, which he fails, (RRP £61-ish) on the black market.
Just read this and it isn’t true. My son and a couple of his friends have failed and then retaken within very short periods recently. You book a re-test anywhere you can find one, and then sign on with a company who contact you with cancellations at your test centre of choice. I don’t think it was particularly expensive. Son was on his way through a red light on his first attempt at an admittedly confusing junction. On the second one he was fine.We only managed to book her upcoming test by logging in via a VPN (to avoid being blocked out of the website by being seen as a cyber-attacker!) at 6am one day and constantly refreshing.
When I failed my test back in 2006, I was able to rebook (and pass) the following Tuesday. This is simply impossible now.
My wife's first theory pass expired during the first lockdown, when she wasn't even able to take a driving lesson for about 9 months. The two year validity is utterly hopeless.
I have another friend currently learning to drive - he keeps paying an ADI £200 to book him tests, which he fails, (RRP £61-ish) on the black market.
We didn't sign up for one because:
a) inertia (the real reason)
b) we don't particularly agree with the concept of paying some dodgy geezer a not insubstantial amount of money to run a script (which I could have written myself) on the DVSA website on our behalf - insodoing preventing other people from legitimately booking a driving test.
Sorry to hear about your son's first test - but good to hear he passed on the second.
Pull_Push said:
Recently retired examiner here, hopefully I can resolve some of your questions, though some answers already have done so already:
As 7Mike posted, crossing lines either entering the bay or exiting is not an issue. The final position is quite ‘fluid’ in that being perfectly in the bay isn’t the be all and end all. It’s nice, and of course wouldn’t attract any fault to be marked. The further away from perfect the more chance you have of a driving fault (minor). It is very much an outcome based system of marking. Also be aware if she doesn’t manage to get it right the first time she can make a correction to her position but don’t make a meal of it.
Your impression would be correct and I’d much rather see good forwards planning if the bus lane has parked vehicles in it and stay in the live lane than darting in and out, plus there is more chance of her being boxed into the bus lane if it's a busy road!
Your understanding of the Highway Code is correct, however I would be looking for her to prepare to stop if safe to do so, and also be aware of anyone approaching with the potential to cross and is she in a position to safely stop if they do step off the curb. If she were to be approaching at say 30 mph with little chance of stopping that could go serious or dangerous very quickly! She does not need to stop to let people cross if they are just randomly standing at the side of the road, I’d be concerned about a rear end shunt here particularly if the following vehicles aren’t expecting a stop.
With regards to the new HC rules on pedestrians as you understand it does say ‘should’ give way and a degree of common sense should prevail here. Pedestrians do appear to be confused by this and I found that most of them didn’t respond to the car slowing/stopping. The guidance on this is that if they do not stop if they can but the pedestrian is on the pavement then that will attract a driving fault (minor)
No problem with the car, however I’d be very surprised if they took it out with the top down, health and safety!
Not an issue here at all, she’s done nothing wrong.
Hope this helps, happy to answer anything else.
Thanks for this. Excellent post.As 7Mike posted, crossing lines either entering the bay or exiting is not an issue. The final position is quite ‘fluid’ in that being perfectly in the bay isn’t the be all and end all. It’s nice, and of course wouldn’t attract any fault to be marked. The further away from perfect the more chance you have of a driving fault (minor). It is very much an outcome based system of marking. Also be aware if she doesn’t manage to get it right the first time she can make a correction to her position but don’t make a meal of it.
Your impression would be correct and I’d much rather see good forwards planning if the bus lane has parked vehicles in it and stay in the live lane than darting in and out, plus there is more chance of her being boxed into the bus lane if it's a busy road!
Your understanding of the Highway Code is correct, however I would be looking for her to prepare to stop if safe to do so, and also be aware of anyone approaching with the potential to cross and is she in a position to safely stop if they do step off the curb. If she were to be approaching at say 30 mph with little chance of stopping that could go serious or dangerous very quickly! She does not need to stop to let people cross if they are just randomly standing at the side of the road, I’d be concerned about a rear end shunt here particularly if the following vehicles aren’t expecting a stop.
With regards to the new HC rules on pedestrians as you understand it does say ‘should’ give way and a degree of common sense should prevail here. Pedestrians do appear to be confused by this and I found that most of them didn’t respond to the car slowing/stopping. The guidance on this is that if they do not stop if they can but the pedestrian is on the pavement then that will attract a driving fault (minor)
No problem with the car, however I’d be very surprised if they took it out with the top down, health and safety!
Not an issue here at all, she’s done nothing wrong.
Hope this helps, happy to answer anything else.
I'm trying to reiterate to my wife just how important commentary is when it comes to taking your driving test. On police/advanced driving tests, you are specifically assessed on the quality of your commentary. It is optional on a basic car driving test... but it does help, and it allays any concerns that the driver might have that the candidate doesn't know what they're doing, or can't justify their decision for certain manoeuvres.
This will be my wife's second test. The first time, she failed for driving the wrong way down an (extremely short) dual carriageway! The examiner asked her to turn right at the next at-grade junction...she bore right of the central reservation! Bang to rights and she just blamed (extreme) nerves. I've taken her past that spot multiple times so she doesn't do so again.
Further question from her. The test route is likely to take her on a deceptively narrow country road (unusual for outer London - Layham's Road in Biggin Hill) with very poor sightlines, a 40 limit and a lot of cyclists. Actually really quite unpleasant for a qualified driver to take. I wouldn't really want to exceed an average of 20 in my own car.
We've practiced driving up that road, and we've had the inevitable Audi drivers up our arse, gesticulating bloody murder, because I've just advised my wife to hang back and not bother trying to overtake the cyclists - as it's likely to be unsafe, and the road is so short that overtaking would barely achieve any further progress.
Where would an examiner the line between driving to the conditions, not putting other road users (cyclists, and oncoming traffic) at danger, and impeding following traffic by driving well under the speed limit (said Audis wanting to hit 40+)?
Would it be advisable for her to pull in at a safe location and let following traffic overtake if she feels intimidated?
Again, I've advised her to explain her reasoning to the examiner while she's doing it!
Edited by lobster940 on Thursday 20th October 19:11
Pull_Push said:
Recently retired examiner here, hopefully I can resolve some of your questions, though some answers already have done so already:
As 7Mike posted, crossing lines either entering the bay or exiting is not an issue. The final position is quite ‘fluid’ in that being perfectly in the bay isn’t the be all and end all. It’s nice, and of course wouldn’t attract any fault to be marked. The further away from perfect the more chance you have of a driving fault (minor). It is very much an outcome based system of marking. Also be aware if she doesn’t manage to get it right the first time she can make a correction to her position but don’t make a meal of it.
Your impression would be correct and I’d much rather see good forwards planning if the bus lane has parked vehicles in it and stay in the live lane than darting in and out, plus there is more chance of her being boxed into the bus lane if it's a busy road!
Your understanding of the Highway Code is correct, however I would be looking for her to prepare to stop if safe to do so, and also be aware of anyone approaching with the potential to cross and is she in a position to safely stop if they do step off the curb. If she were to be approaching at say 30 mph with little chance of stopping that could go serious or dangerous very quickly! She does not need to stop to let people cross if they are just randomly standing at the side of the road, I’d be concerned about a rear end shunt here particularly if the following vehicles aren’t expecting a stop.
With regards to the new HC rules on pedestrians as you understand it does say ‘should’ give way and a degree of common sense should prevail here. Pedestrians do appear to be confused by this and I found that most of them didn’t respond to the car slowing/stopping. The guidance on this is that if they do not stop if they can but the pedestrian is on the pavement then that will attract a driving fault (minor)
No problem with the car, however I’d be very surprised if they took it out with the top down, health and safety!
Not an issue here at all, she’s done nothing wrong.
Hope this helps, happy to answer anything else.
Totally correct. As it should be from a DE!As 7Mike posted, crossing lines either entering the bay or exiting is not an issue. The final position is quite ‘fluid’ in that being perfectly in the bay isn’t the be all and end all. It’s nice, and of course wouldn’t attract any fault to be marked. The further away from perfect the more chance you have of a driving fault (minor). It is very much an outcome based system of marking. Also be aware if she doesn’t manage to get it right the first time she can make a correction to her position but don’t make a meal of it.
Your impression would be correct and I’d much rather see good forwards planning if the bus lane has parked vehicles in it and stay in the live lane than darting in and out, plus there is more chance of her being boxed into the bus lane if it's a busy road!
Your understanding of the Highway Code is correct, however I would be looking for her to prepare to stop if safe to do so, and also be aware of anyone approaching with the potential to cross and is she in a position to safely stop if they do step off the curb. If she were to be approaching at say 30 mph with little chance of stopping that could go serious or dangerous very quickly! She does not need to stop to let people cross if they are just randomly standing at the side of the road, I’d be concerned about a rear end shunt here particularly if the following vehicles aren’t expecting a stop.
With regards to the new HC rules on pedestrians as you understand it does say ‘should’ give way and a degree of common sense should prevail here. Pedestrians do appear to be confused by this and I found that most of them didn’t respond to the car slowing/stopping. The guidance on this is that if they do not stop if they can but the pedestrian is on the pavement then that will attract a driving fault (minor)
No problem with the car, however I’d be very surprised if they took it out with the top down, health and safety!
Not an issue here at all, she’s done nothing wrong.
Hope this helps, happy to answer anything else.
lobster940 said:
Thanks for this. Excellent post.
I'm trying to reiterate to my wife just how important commentary is when it comes to taking your driving test. On police/advanced driving tests, you are specifically assessed on the quality of your commentary. It is optional on a basic car driving test... but it does help, and it allays any concerns that the driver might have that the candidate doesn't know what they're doing, or can't justify their decision for certain manoeuvres.
This will be my wife's second test. The first time, she failed for driving the wrong way down an (extremely short) dual carriageway! The examiner asked her to turn right at the next at-grade junction...she bore right of the central reservation! Bang to rights and she just blamed (extreme) nerves. I've taken her past that spot multiple times so she doesn't do so again.
Further question from her. The test route is likely to take her on a deceptively narrow country road (unusual for outer London - Layham's Road in Biggin Hill) with very poor sightlines, a 40 limit and a lot of cyclists. Actually really quite unpleasant for a qualified driver to take. I wouldn't really want to exceed an average of 20 in my own car.
We've practiced driving up that road, and we've had the inevitable Audi drivers up our arse, gesticulating bloody murder, because I've just advised my wife to hang back and not bother trying to overtake the cyclists - as it's likely to be unsafe, and the road is so short that overtaking would barely achieve any further progress.
Where would an examiner the line between driving to the conditions, not putting other road users (cyclists, and oncoming traffic) at danger, and impeding following traffic by driving well under the speed limit (said Audis wanting to hit 40+)?
Would it be advisable for her to pull in at a safe location and let following traffic overtake if she feels intimidated?
Again, I've advised her to explain her reasoning to the examiner while she's doing it!
I'd agree that commentary can work well but it is not expected but certainly for situations such as Layhams Rd it sounds like it would be useful.. Thats a nasty little road isn't it? I'd want to see reasonable progress where she could, but if it really isn't safe to pass cyclists and baring in mind how much clearance they need at that speed then hanging back is fine. If her progress is ok in other parts it demonstrates her ability to recognise the differences. The following mouth-breathers aren't an issue, they should be filtered out by the DE if they are acting unreasonably.I'm trying to reiterate to my wife just how important commentary is when it comes to taking your driving test. On police/advanced driving tests, you are specifically assessed on the quality of your commentary. It is optional on a basic car driving test... but it does help, and it allays any concerns that the driver might have that the candidate doesn't know what they're doing, or can't justify their decision for certain manoeuvres.
This will be my wife's second test. The first time, she failed for driving the wrong way down an (extremely short) dual carriageway! The examiner asked her to turn right at the next at-grade junction...she bore right of the central reservation! Bang to rights and she just blamed (extreme) nerves. I've taken her past that spot multiple times so she doesn't do so again.
Further question from her. The test route is likely to take her on a deceptively narrow country road (unusual for outer London - Layham's Road in Biggin Hill) with very poor sightlines, a 40 limit and a lot of cyclists. Actually really quite unpleasant for a qualified driver to take. I wouldn't really want to exceed an average of 20 in my own car.
We've practiced driving up that road, and we've had the inevitable Audi drivers up our arse, gesticulating bloody murder, because I've just advised my wife to hang back and not bother trying to overtake the cyclists - as it's likely to be unsafe, and the road is so short that overtaking would barely achieve any further progress.
Where would an examiner the line between driving to the conditions, not putting other road users (cyclists, and oncoming traffic) at danger, and impeding following traffic by driving well under the speed limit (said Audis wanting to hit 40+)?
Would it be advisable for her to pull in at a safe location and let following traffic overtake if she feels intimidated?
Again, I've advised her to explain her reasoning to the examiner while she's doing it!
Edited by lobster940 on Thursday 20th October 19:11
I would say there isn't an issue with pulling over, most learners wouldn't but that is more a lack of confidence in taking contol of a situation more than anything. Just make sure if she does choose to do this it is absolutely safe and not causing any issues regarding sight lines obstructions etc. She will pull up a number of times as a matter of course, but these are quite tightly controlled so if she does this by choice its on her own back.
Pull_Push said:
Recently retired examiner here, hopefully I can resolve some of your questions…
She only just went and passed with 2 minors…!With me as her driving instructor. And in a 22 year old Mazda MX-5. Crivens.
Seriously, she sends her personal thanks to you - she says your rational words really put her mind at rest, and you made her think this was something she could actually do.
We had to give her own instructor the heave-ho after he told her to cancel her test as he had no faith she would pass. "Bugger that", I said.
Edited by lobster940 on Monday 7th November 18:08
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