I've been driving poorly recently, but am I wrong about this
Discussion
Apologies in advance, because I'm sure there have already been several threads about this, but I've noticed more and more frequently in the past couple of years that the general population seems to treat motorways as if they're French autoroutes (i.e. stick to the two lanes on the right).
I've stuck to doing what I always do, which is to keep left unless overtaking and try and roughly maintain 70-ish - even if this means I'm passing cars on my right (them being in the "overtaking lanes" at 60-65mph) Does this count as undertaking? Should I slow to match their speed even if my lane is clear? Would I be justified in ramming them out of the way?
I thought I'd seek some guidance because I had a bit of aggro with another driver on the motorway at the weekend: he didn't like that I'd passed him and so decided to follow me, changing lanes behind me, matching my speed, flashing me and waving his arms around in some kind of moron semaphore. Said driver swerved to pull alongside me and I slowed to find out what the problem was (for all I knew I had something hanging off the back of my car etc) at which point said person starts waving a camcorder at me, implying that he has my transgressions on camera! Ignoring the fact that he's arguably earned some points and a fine for doing so, I eventually just slowed down to the point where he got bored and drove off.
I'm not arguing that I'm innocent ans was driving well, nor that I rose to the bait, but it's made me think about the quality of my driving, which is something that I've always been keen to uphold. Evidently there's room for improvement...
I've stuck to doing what I always do, which is to keep left unless overtaking and try and roughly maintain 70-ish - even if this means I'm passing cars on my right (them being in the "overtaking lanes" at 60-65mph) Does this count as undertaking? Should I slow to match their speed even if my lane is clear? Would I be justified in ramming them out of the way?
I thought I'd seek some guidance because I had a bit of aggro with another driver on the motorway at the weekend: he didn't like that I'd passed him and so decided to follow me, changing lanes behind me, matching my speed, flashing me and waving his arms around in some kind of moron semaphore. Said driver swerved to pull alongside me and I slowed to find out what the problem was (for all I knew I had something hanging off the back of my car etc) at which point said person starts waving a camcorder at me, implying that he has my transgressions on camera! Ignoring the fact that he's arguably earned some points and a fine for doing so, I eventually just slowed down to the point where he got bored and drove off.
I'm not arguing that I'm innocent ans was driving well, nor that I rose to the bait, but it's made me think about the quality of my driving, which is something that I've always been keen to uphold. Evidently there's room for improvement...
What with the M4 local to me becoming a 4 lane smart motorway, lane discipline has gone from bad to horrendous. As you have mentioned, quite literally, the entire world sits in Lanes 3 and 4, completely oblivious to what they are doing. Even coaches have made lane 2 the default option now. (This is covered is huge detail in another middle lane moron thread, we don't need to recover the why's and wherefores).
However, it is fair to say that regardless of this, I continue to make full legal use of lane 1 and 2 at around 65-70mph and my progress is safe and steady. I don't actively seek an undertake, but if I happen to pass a batch of cars in lanes 2/3/4 who shouldn't be there, it makes no odds to me. I simply cruise in the inner most lane at all times unless there is a slower moving vehicle, who I will then 'overtake' correctly.
If you were to slow and wait in lanes 1 and 2 for fear of 'undertaking' those morons in lanes 3 and 4 doing 60-65, you'll become more of a hazard than you think you are being safe.
Continue what you are doing, but just don't engage with anything or anyone.
However, it is fair to say that regardless of this, I continue to make full legal use of lane 1 and 2 at around 65-70mph and my progress is safe and steady. I don't actively seek an undertake, but if I happen to pass a batch of cars in lanes 2/3/4 who shouldn't be there, it makes no odds to me. I simply cruise in the inner most lane at all times unless there is a slower moving vehicle, who I will then 'overtake' correctly.
If you were to slow and wait in lanes 1 and 2 for fear of 'undertaking' those morons in lanes 3 and 4 doing 60-65, you'll become more of a hazard than you think you are being safe.
Continue what you are doing, but just don't engage with anything or anyone.
Totally agree, if they morons want to do 55-60 in L2, I am not about to change from L1 to L3, possibly encountering those in L3 who choose to totally ignore 70, I have always felt it is safer to undertake in these circumstances, a quick look at an AA web site it said this :-
It’s acceptable to undertake on motorways where average speed limits are in operation, or when it says stay in lane.
It’s acceptable to undertake on motorways where average speed limits are in operation, or when it says stay in lane.
'Acceptable'... What a strange word to use. Animal said:
I thought I'd seek some guidance because I had a bit of aggro with another driver on the motorway at the weekend: he didn't like that I'd passed him and so decided to follow me, changing lanes behind me, matching my speed, flashing me and waving his arms around in some kind of moron semaphore. Said driver swerved to pull alongside me and I slowed to find out what the problem was (for all I knew I had something hanging off the back of my car etc) at which point said person starts waving a camcorder at me, implying that he has my transgressions on camera! Ignoring the fact that he's arguably earned some points and a fine for doing so, I eventually just slowed down to the point where he got bored and drove off.
This is the reason most people use the outside lane, it's the path of least resistance. Yes, you can sit in the inside lane and pass countless MLMs without doing anything 'wrong', but eventually you'll encounter an angry one looking for a fight.I very rarely undertake in lane 1. Partly from trying to keep within the spirit of the Highway Code, partly to avoid antagonising, but by far the biggest reason is I don't want to be in someone's near-side blind spot at the point they do decide to move over. I will quite happily go from lane 1 to lane 3 and back again in one sweeping motion, plus there's a slightly satisfying passive-aggressive factor to it, particularly when you see someone behind you do exactly the same thing to make the point to the middle-lane hogger.
Actually in general I don't get too worked up about middle lane hoggers. It does get frustrating when there's a long queue of traffic bunched up in lane 3 trying to get past and making little progress (in those circumstances I normally duck in to the empty lane 1 and sacrifice a few places for the benefit of having a relatively safe empty lane to play with).
The only time I'll undertake without a second thought is when I'm in lane 1, there's someone in lane 3 and lane 2 is empty so there's a safety zone, but that's pretty rare.
If you do decide to undertake from lane 1 when there's traffic in both lanes 2 and 3, then wait a very decent amount of time to be as happy as possible that everyone is settled and unlikely to make a sudden move back over; then don't dawdle, get it done.
But as a default, I'd try and avoid it. If it's a 2-lane dual carriageway then you'll just have to make a decision.
Actually in general I don't get too worked up about middle lane hoggers. It does get frustrating when there's a long queue of traffic bunched up in lane 3 trying to get past and making little progress (in those circumstances I normally duck in to the empty lane 1 and sacrifice a few places for the benefit of having a relatively safe empty lane to play with).
The only time I'll undertake without a second thought is when I'm in lane 1, there's someone in lane 3 and lane 2 is empty so there's a safety zone, but that's pretty rare.
If you do decide to undertake from lane 1 when there's traffic in both lanes 2 and 3, then wait a very decent amount of time to be as happy as possible that everyone is settled and unlikely to make a sudden move back over; then don't dawdle, get it done.
But as a default, I'd try and avoid it. If it's a 2-lane dual carriageway then you'll just have to make a decision.
Animal said:
as if they're French autoroutes (i.e. stick to the two lanes on the right).
My experience of French autoroutes is that the drivers are obsessive about getting back into the inside lane, ie they cut you up to get back into lane 1 instantly after performing an overtake with barely any room at all, even with 3 clear lanes in front of them! (Other than that slightly odd quirk, I find the autoroutes pretty straightforward to drive)MattyD803 said:
What with the M4 local to me becoming a 4 lane smart motorway, lane discipline has gone from bad to horrendous. As you have mentioned, quite literally, the entire world sits in Lanes 3 and 4, completely oblivious to what they are doing. Even coaches have made lane 2 the default option now. (This is covered is huge detail in another middle lane moron thread, we don't need to recover the why's and wherefores).
.
It's an aside from the MLD issue, but....
Smart motorways do present a major problem, in that L1 is perceived by many (about 35%) to be dangerous, due to the scarcity of refuges (1.5mile gaps). In heavy traffic a stranded vehicle is invisible, until something ahead pulls round it to reveal the accident about to happen. The gantries are also rare, so you can't rely on them as a warning. They do present new risks that cannot always be mitigated, as HGV's wipe out the view ahead. Not surprising than many are concerned.
So lots of unwise investment in smart Motorways, leading to negligible increased capacity. L1 is the new hard shoulder for many.
I regularly drive on the M6 past Preston. This is not a stretch of smart motorway, however, the excessive use of lanes 3 and 4 is just as bad as has been described above. With regards the dangers of smart motorways, what do those who oppose them think should be done about the many miles of road like this? Re-engineered to include a hard shoulder or a reduction in speed limit?
7mike said:
I regularly drive on the M6 past Preston. This is not a stretch of smart motorway, however, the excessive use of lanes 3 and 4 is just as bad as has been described above. With regards the dangers of smart motorways, what do those who oppose them think should be done about the many miles of road like this? Re-engineered to include a hard shoulder or a reduction in speed limit?
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