Near head-on (ish)

[w1bbles]

I've not crashed since I was a spotty 22 year old with a Mk2 Golf GTi 16v and very little talent. I had a very near miss yesterday that gave me cause for thought. I was driving home from a day out about 150 miles away and was on the home straight; off the dual carriageway and onto a twisty A road for 30 mins in dry weather with perfect visibility. I was driving the RS6 at reasonable pace but not silly. My two sons were in the car; both of them drive. I always work on the basis that I need to be able to stop within my line of sight regardless of my speed but this near miss has made me think again. I was doing about 50 on a relatively open blind curve to the left and I had slowed down to my line of sight when a nutter appeared in a Merc of some description with the majority of his car on my side of the road. He was heading almost straight at me at significant speed. I think it was significant speed for a couple of reasons - the first was just gut feel judging his motion, and the second was what happened afterwards.

I've just had new discs and pads at vast expense, plus some work on the brake pistons front and rear. Thank goodness. The car stopped unbelievably quickly and I managed to judge the stone wall side of the road by about an inch. We went back afterwards and checked the distances vs. the tyre marks.

I have no idea what was happening on the right hand side but we were all braced for impact and nothing happened as he/she must have managed to flick their car out of the way. I turned round at the next safe field entrance and tried to catch up with the Merc as they had not stopped and didn't wait to see if were ok; for all they knew we were upside down in a ditch because I couldn't see them in my mirrors when we emergency stopped. After the U turn I drove swiftly but not madly as we were all just thankful to be alive and after 5 miles of trying to catch up it was clear that we'd have to really try to close the gap (I couldn't see them BTW) and I chalked it up to experience.

The reason for posting it here is this: should one generally work on the basis that the worst hazard round a blind bend is a stationary object, or something travelling at 60+ mph on the wrong side of the road? For the next few weeks I will be thinking the latter rather than 30+ years of thinking the former.

Thanks.

[Dr Jekyll]

Rule of thumb is leave at least enough room to stop on a two lane road, twice as much room as you need on a single track road. But on a narrow road with a blind bend then leave closer to twice as much room.

Ultimately you can't allow for someone the coming other way on the wrong side of the road or on a single track road, however much room you have to stop they might not brake at all.

[loskie]

You are trying to justify too many times that your speed was reasonable

[w1bbles]

You’re correct. But in the analysis I don’t think I was going too fast for visibility. It was the car coming at me that made me question myself.

[Pistom]

w1bbles said:

You’re correct. But in the analysis I don’t think I was going too fast for visibility. It was the car coming at me that made me question myself.

From your description it really doesn't sound like you were going too fast. You can't drive with the expectation of another car heading for you at speed.

I suspect you are still suffering from shock but these incidents do happen from time to time.

Just glad there wasn't any physical injury, impact or damage. You will get over the fright after a while.

[wong]

I don't suppose you have a dash cam?

[helix402]

I suspect Merc driver may have been on their phone. It’s all the rage these days.

[huytonman]

You appear to have been driving correctly and life is full of dangers that cant all be prevented - its about probabilities, if you can reasonably expect to come across this situation everytime you approach a bend like this then as you suggest leave a lot more space but the reality is its a rare event and you just have to live with it in my view.

[w1bbles]

Thanks all. I drove 40 miles this evening and was definitely a bit edgy about people coming head-on at me. On reflection I really don’t think I was driving too fast so all in all a good lesson about the unexpected. The weird thing about the C5 RS6 is that I generally think I’m going faster than I am because the seating position is low compared to my daily Defender and the suspension appears to be made from concrete. It’s on coil overs to replace the DRC so you feel every bump. So 40 in this feels like 60 in my Defender, oddly. I still reckon I was doing less than 50 but judging by the twitchiness of the head on Merc, they were doing significant more.

[slipknotted]

st happens. You can drive as cautiously as you want but you can't account for stupid, similar thing as there's nothing stopping someone from launching a brick through your living room window. Take all reasonable precautions and pray.

Not as dramatic but I learnt this lesson when someone gave me a right ol' scare a few months ago playing 'look up from your phone chicken'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wox4No5fDn8&ab...

[DocSteve]

You mentioned it was a relatively open bend so I am just wondering if there was any opportunity to see the opposing Merc through hedges or from looking further ahead. The vehicle behaviour, if it could have been seen, may have given you reason for more caution perhaps?

As others have said, you can only go so far in terms of what might be reasonably expected. I have done a lot of driving in Asia and in some countries it is almost expected that something will be overtaking around a blind bend so you have to plan accordingly and have an escape option / approach with caution. Doing this in the UK would be a bit like wearing full body armour every time you go to the shop in case there is a lunatic with a gun on the loose.

Hard to know without seeing the footage but doesn't sound like you did anything incorrect apart from my suggestion about potential earlier vision. Sometimes although there is a "dead space", be it in a bend / crest or other area, you may still be able to anticipate what is going to enter it from scanning ahead including using any openings to view the road/hazards ahead. You may not be able to see what is already in it hence the stop in the distance seen to be clear but you might anticipate something entering it and a potential risk. The presence of the stone wall to the nearside would also suggest exercising further caution as your escape options are more limited.

Not meaning to be critical and the question is very valid in my view.

[DocSteve]

slipknotted said:

st happens. You can drive as cautiously as you want but you can't account for stupid, similar thing as there's nothing stopping someone from launching a brick through your living room window. Take all reasonable precautions and pray.

Not as dramatic but I learnt this lesson when someone gave me a right ol' scare a few months ago playing 'look up from your phone chicken'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wox4No5fDn8&ab...

Is it possible that the driver (obviously not paying attention for whatever reason) moved out as the car behind the ambulance had its lights on and then appeared to suggest it may try and move out? Parked vehicles on both sides are challenging especially at night - although clearly you were not to blame as such I'd probably have slowed down a lot more when there is opposing traffic in those situations. When you have a more "sterile" field with space either side of your car then the speed limit may be appropriate. Again, just a suggestion and I wasn't there but I think all near misses are worth reflecting on (I have had them myself, I'm not immune,, but in AD after the initial calm down (stopping was certainly a good idea), I wouldn't bother wasting time getting angry but just wonder if there's anything I could have done to reduce the risk of it happening.

[595Heaven]

Not sure trying to chase them down was a great idea. What would you have done if you had caught them up? Adrenaline tends to make you do some irrational things.

Surely better to stop for a few minutes and calm yourself down,

[Pistom]

595Heaven said:

Not sure trying to chase them down was a great idea. What would you have done if you had caught them up? Adrenaline tends to make you do some irrational things.

Surely better to stop for a few minutes and calm yourself down,

This is great advice for most situations where another driver has pissed you off or done something dangerous. Hard to sometimes rain ourselves in but it is the best course of action in probably most situations like this.

[MutiMuti]

You're an advanced driver so I have overcome my extreme prejudice against Audi RS drivers so many of whom drive in a manner that beggars belief.

You can apply all the advanced driving techniques in the world but you can't anticipate those situations where something happens, completely beyond your control because of the behaviour of another driver/pedestrian etc etc. If you're an advanced driver then hopefully the fact that you're applying those priciples is sufficient to mitigate the situation. I've been in a few such situations myself down the years.

This is why when I watch Reg Locals 18 and 24 Scottish overtakes he makes me very nervous. 99% of the time everything is O.K. but there's that 1% where the potential for disaster is very very obvious. I was involved in an incident a couple of years ago where something unanticipated made me completely reappraise my driving style and I apply what I learned from that incident on a daily basis.

[Pica-Pica]

Always drive so you can stop in HALF the distance you can see to be clear. I had similar, a snow plough on a lane with a fking great shovel upfront taking all of the road - in autumn (I guess re-positioning for winter). That was doing between 20 and 30 mph.
As for the chase - really? Why?

[Onehp]

Half indeed if the road is so narrow it is possible it is blocked completely by an uncoming lorry/plough

But even if one came fully to a stop in half the distance, if the oncoming one can't stop even in the whole distance, it's going to go bang. So it's just as much about minimising the consequences of a crash, rather then avoiding it completely. I have so much dashcam footage of me going coming to a stop to the side of the road, and still oncoming cars barely avoiding me, driving middle of the bend not even a chance of slowing down any significant amount.... Mostly of shear negligence / incompetence.

That is why I always slow for uncoming traffic even on straights from 60 (or more if there was visibility) down to 45 ish or even lower depending on what I'm meeting and how much room for flight there is (drive in ditch)... Not many do that...
As good as everyone take it for granted to pass one another at 120mph speed difference without much thought, but in my ~25 year driving I've had to avoid 3 oncoming cars suddenly swerving in my lane on a straight road, once there was almost no space left...

[Chamon_Lee]

You cannot cater of every eventuality.

You’ll always have a nutter on the road and personally I think what you done is more than what most do, keep the car tip top and generally be as defensive as possible without being paranoid.

You done well. You can’t have done anything much more.

[nismo48]

+1

Chamon_Lee said:

You cannot cater of every eventuality.

You’ll always have a nutter on the road and personally I think what you done is more than what most do, keep the car tip top and generally be as defensive as possible without being paranoid.

You done well. You can’t have done anything much more.

[Bweber]

I was taught that on blind corners / crests, you should aim to stop in half the distance you can see to be clear. The logic as I understand it is that you should also take the stopping distance of any approaching traffic, in case they don’t. As 50mph gave a safe, if marginal stopping distance in your example, half that distance would imply a maximum approach speed of around 40mph. In an RS6 with modded brakes, speeding up and slowing down to follow that rule should be no hardship…