Would you treat this junction as one or two lanes?

[slipknotted]

Hi all, another road layout that seems a tad ambiguous that I'd like some opinions on:

Highfield Lane going onto The Avenue in Southampton, one or two lane junction? Two sets of arrows showing separate directions but no lane markings. The straight ahead road this junction leads onto is also two lanes. Is it the same case as a rural road with no centre lines? i.e. it's not written on the road but we (should) all know the deal.

I ask this as I use this junction a lot when working and I personally use it as two lanes due to the fact it halves the queue, the road is wide enough and I'm turning right at the next set of lights so I don't want to wait behind people who aren't going the same way as me. Most people sensibly form two queues with no whinging but occasionally you'll get some busy body sit directly in the middle of the road in protest - I normally nonchalantly drive around them if safe to do so.

A similar question could be asked about The Avenue as well, it's single lane road that is wide enough for two cars and I'm pretty sure it used to be two lanes, but I'm not city planner.

[donkmeister]

I think I would treat that very carefully! Looks like the sort of place that has a lot of near misses and shouting.

I'd treat it as two lanes, and give the other lane a wide berth. Could probably do with some road markings though, all it takes is the person in the left lane to take a sloppy approach and that's going to encroach on the right lane's road space.

[Countdown]

slipknotted said:

I normally nonchalantly drive around them if safe to do so.

Therein lies the problem - it's very hard to convey nonchalance when you're in a car. "They" won't see that you're being nonchalant and will probably see it as an aggressive move.

Based on what you've said (and the two arrows painted on the road) they're completely in the wrong. However, when meeting a dhead on the road provoking them rarely creates any benefit. Personally I'd stay well away.

[M.F.D]

I would also treat this carefully, because the vast majority of drivers are idiots.

[Pica-Pica]

If you are turning right later, then maybe it depends on the state of the lights and what size of vehicles are around you. If green, and you can get through on green, then I would move to the right as I neared the lights. In fact, in the absence of any other conditions that limit it, I would be on the right.

On the thread question. I would be aware that cars and two-wheelers may treat it as two lanes, some bigger vehicles may treat is as just one.

[MutiMuti]

donkmeister said:

I think I would treat that very carefully! Looks like the sort of place that has a lot of near misses and shouting.

I'd treat it as two lanes, and give the other lane a wide berth.

I would argue that the reason lanes are not marked is because the space available for two cars is tight and therefore it's not possible in either lane to give the other a wide berth. However, not having negotiated this particular junction I can't comment on how I might treat it.

[slipknotted]

Consensus seems to be two lanes if possible but very carefully, which to my delight is pretty much how I handle it currently

Countdown mentioned that nonchalance could be interpreted as aggression which is fair enough, some people are bound to be the next Kenneth Noye, but most people won't react or if they do my lack of retaliation or a polite smile defuses any aggression. If anybody were to road-rage after that I feel as if I'd taken reasonable precautions, let them have their moment and leave at the earliest convenience.

Pica-Pica mentioned large vehicles taking both 'lanes' which is a given at any junction but I appreciate the reminder

MutiMuti (welcome back btw ) mentioned their may not be lane markings for a reason and he could be correct in that assumption but that brings me back to the two sets of arrows with different directions on them, which heavily implies two lanes. Just bad road design or incorrect markings? I think if you look on google maps from a different angle you can see two queues at this junction so feel free to judge for yourself if the road is too tight and how you'd treat this road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9344418,-1.4062479...

[col711]

The northwest bound lane is about 4.7 m wide according to Google Maps. This is very narrow for two lanes. The normal minimum width for a lane is 2.5 m on the approach to traffic signals. However, in exceptional circumstances 2.25 m can be used but not where there are many HGVs. I would treat this as one lane irrespective of the markings. The authority must be aware that the width is too narrow for two lanes otherwise the road would have been marked as such. As it been marked this way for long? Maybe a cycle lane will be added on the nearside?

[whimsical ninja]

Any vehicle turning left who was tucked in by the kerb would have a very tight steer. If I was in pole position I would personally make this one lane regardless of direction of travel, but I wouldn't get worked up about it either way

[MakaveliX]

Yeah two lanes on the left.
No idea what the "lane" furthest right is though, i'd assume it's no longer in use

[Dave Hedgehog]

160 care R3-4