HPC course coming up

[LunarOne]

As a present to myself for my 47th birthday, I've signed up to improve my driving skills on the High Performance Course. I've got the initial session next weekend and I'm really excited. I'm sure it's going to be some hard work but I love driving almost as much as I like cheese. Which is a lot. I've conversed with the course manager by email so I have some idea what to expect, but if you've done the course recently, I'd love to hear how you got on and what you thought of the whole thing. Has it resulted in lasting changes to your driving? Do you think you're a better driver now than you were before? Thanks!

[AliMc99]

No need to worry. You should find the training transformative! I’ve driven with all 3 of the current HPC trainers and they are all brilliant.

[RSTurboPaul]

Congrats!

This has been on my list for a while but there's always something else needing buying

I did do a couple of the Young Driver Days that they do, and it was very informative while also being enjoyable, so the course should be excellent!


I know it's vulgar to ask such things, but is it still about a grand or so?

[LunarOne]

Asking how much something cost isn't vulgar. The breakdown I got when I initially enquired in November last year was as follows:

"£200 for the first 1/2 day session, £225 for the off road training and the two day course will be £600."

I don't know whether the costs will have changed in the last 10 months - hopefully not by much. But if they have increased slightly it should be inconsequential. I haven't been on holiday for a couple of years now, so I think I'm overdue treating myself. And if it makes me a better driver, then that's got to be a double win in my book!

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

Congratulations- it’s a nice present to give yourself.

Have you done any other post-test training? If not, you’ll most likely need an IAM Roadsmart course or similar before taking on the two days.

You’ll certainly enjoy the half-day though, and if it doesn’t permanently change your driving I’d be very surprised.

[LunarOne]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

Have you done any other post-test training? If not, you’ll most likely need an IAM Roadsmart course or similar before taking on the two days.

About 17 years ago I took an advanced riding day with an ex-police motorcycle instructor, and she taught me a few things - I don't remember much now apart from how she taught me to position the bike on the road for maximum visibility. About 4 years ago I did a bikesafe day, and I think that was about the last time I went out on the bike! So no post-test training in the car and a couple of sporadic bike days.

[waremark]

LunarOne said:

Asking how much something cost isn't vulgar. The breakdown I got when I initially enquired in November last year was as follows:

"£200 for the first 1/2 day session, £225 for the off road training and the two day course will be £600."

I don't know whether the costs will have changed in the last 10 months - hopefully not by much. But if they have increased slightly it should be inconsequential. I haven't been on holiday for a couple of years now, so I think I'm overdue treating myself. And if it makes me a better driver, then that's got to be a double win in my book!

So for about £1,000 you improve your driving for life, and learn how to enjoy your cars and driving more. You may even discover a new hobby. Many people spend more on bigger wheels or fancier headlights on a new car! It's tremendous value.

As for this comment: 'If not, you’ll most likely need an IAM Roadsmart course or similar before taking on the two days', I wouldn't go along with 'need'. Those courses are delivered by volunteers and so are cheaper, and if you have done one you may get more out of your time with an HPC coach. I expect the coach will assess whether you are ready to benefit from the full course and will discuss the options with you during your first drive.

[LunarOne]

waremark said:

I expect the coach will assess whether you are ready to benefit from the full course and will discuss the options with you during your first drive.

When enquiring about the booking, I was told "The date will be for the initial session only. Once areas to work on have been defined there will be a period of time for you to work on these. There is the one day limit handling, at North Weald race circuit, to complete before coming back to do the two day course."

Based on that I don't expect that I will automatically need to do one of those other courses as long as I can work on those area which need improvement before coming back. I think I'm a fairly competent driver in that I think about weight transfer, tyre loadings, surface grip, weather conditions and my own driving style and try to think of how I could have done things differently when I make mistakes. I think the vast majority of drivers don't do any of that and just putter between point A and point B with the minimum of conscious thought.

I'm trying to decide which of my four cars to take along. One is off the road due to engine problems, so that leaves three. One is very easy to drive, but is a 15-year-old turbo four-pot FWD estate and quite dull. One is also very comfortable and easy to drive (being the only automatic) but is a big, heavy, 30-year-old barge with a bit of slop in the steering and it could benefit from a suspension refresh. The last one is a modern, moderately fast and agile mid-engined sports car but being a 2-seat convertible, has limited rearward visibility. I also find the clutch not entirely predictable which makes me fluff some standing starts. I suspect I'll go for this one...

[dvenman]

LunarOne said:

I suspect I'll go for this one...

Speak to the course manager you're seeing. They'll advise on that, or tell you to bring the one you're most comfortable in. Either way the skills learned in one will transfer to all the other vehicles...

[johnao]

LunarOne said:

waremark said:

I expect the coach will assess whether you are ready to benefit from the full course and will discuss the options with you during your first drive.

When enquiring about the booking, I was told "The date will be for the initial session only. Once areas to work on have been defined there will be a period of time for you to work on these. There is the one day limit handling, at North Weald race circuit, to complete before coming back to do the two day course."

Based on that I don't expect that I will automatically need to do one of those other courses as long as I can work on those area which need improvement before coming back. I think I'm a fairly competent driver in that I think about weight transfer, tyre loadings, surface grip, weather conditions and my own driving style and try to think of how I could have done things differently when I make mistakes. I think the vast majority of drivers don't do any of that and just putter between point A and point B with the minimum of conscious thought.

I'm trying to decide which of my four cars to take along. One is off the road due to engine problems, so that leaves three. One is very easy to drive, but is a 15-year-old turbo four-pot FWD estate and quite dull. One is also very comfortable and easy to drive (being the only automatic) but is a big, heavy, 30-year-old barge with a bit of slop in the steering and it could benefit from a suspension refresh. The last one is a modern, moderately fast and agile mid-engined sports car but being a 2-seat convertible, has limited rearward visibility. I also find the clutch not entirely predictable which makes me fluff some standing starts. I suspect I'll go for this one...

The course manager will advise you whether or not the areas identified to work on can be resolved by you alone in the timescale given, or whether it might be better to engage with IAMRoadsmart or RoSPA to gain the basics at minimal cost before committing to the full two-day course. Take their advice.

As to which car to take? I would take a manual car if at all possible.

[akirk]

If you are also someone who learns by reading - a couple of books which might be useful:

Roadcraft - the police drivers' handbook:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadcraft-drivers-handboo...
Don't overthink it, but reading this may at least help with understanding how to talk about it on the course and make you familiar with concepts...

Highway Code:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DVSA-Official-2015-Highwa...
(Amazing how easy it is to forget what we learned when we passed our test)

[waremark]

"I think about weight transfer, tyre loadings, surface grip, weather conditions and my own driving style and try to think of how I could have done things differently when I make mistakes. I think the vast majority of drivers don't do any of that and just putter between point A and point B with the minimum of conscious thought."

Very much yes. But interesting that you don't specifically mention interacting with the road and traffic. Obviously as a thinking driver you do also think about those aspects - a large part of what you will be encouraged to work on will be about all aspects of hazard management, focusing on Observation Anticipation and Planning.

By the way, most of us replying to you have taken the High Performance Course in the past and recommend it whole heartedly.

[LunarOne]

akirk said:

If you are also someone who learns by reading - a couple of books which might be useful:

Roadcraft - the police drivers' handbook:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadcraft-drivers-handboo...
Don't overthink it, but reading this may at least help with understanding how to talk about it on the course and make you familiar with concepts...

Highway Code:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DVSA-Official-2015-Highwa...
(Amazing how easy it is to forget what we learned when we passed our test)

Thanks for this. I have both car and motorcycle editions of roadcraft (albeit bought and read at least 8 years ago) and I was given a highway code copy when I did my Bikesafe course in 2016. I've been dipping in for the last couple of months...

[LunarOne]

waremark said:

But interesting that you don't specifically mention interacting with the road and traffic. Obviously as a thinking driver you do also think about those aspects - a large part of what you will be encouraged to work on will be about all aspects of hazard management, focusing on Observation Anticipation and Planning.

By the way, most of us replying to you have taken the High Performance Course in the past and recommend it whole heartedly.

I didn't mention it because it's intrinsic to the act of driving and I guess taken for granted, while the things I mentioned are very likely overlooked entirely by most drivers. And yes, I was hoping a few course alumni might contribute!

[Len Woodman]

Good luck LunarOne.

You probably will find HPC addictive. Luckily you are in the only country in the world that has high performance road driving driver training to that standard.

There's nothing even near to it in Australia, in fact there's nothing near to IAM here either. As soon as I am released from Penitentiary 'Straya once Covid is 'under control' I will be back for my 'fix'.

NSW police driving school had some good instructors when I worked with them many years ago - the ones that went to Hendon for training prior to the Olympics! Don't know what they are like now.

Good luck.

Edited by Len Woodman on Friday 24th September 13:43

[Nurburgsingh]

LunarOne said:

As a present to myself for my 47th birthday, I've signed up to improve my driving skills on the High Performance Course. I've got the initial session next weekend and I'm really excited. I'm sure it's going to be some hard work but I love driving almost as much as I like cheese. Which is a lot. I've conversed with the course manager by email so I have some idea what to expect, but if you've done the course recently, I'd love to hear how you got on and what you thought of the whole thing. Has it resulted in lasting changes to your driving? Do you think you're a better driver now than you were before? Thanks!

I can’t give you anything on a recent course, but it’s been nearly 20 years since I did my HPC course and yes its resulted in lasting changes to my driving.

[Salted_Peanut]

It's a fantastic course – and I highly recommend it – but don't feel pressured into driving faster than you feel comfortable.

In the John Lyon era, I felt unsafe pressure to drive more than briskly. Before taking the course, I had a trackday background yet felt John's pace was inappropriate for (non-police) road driving. He was teaching me as if I had police speed dispensation and was on emergency response. However, I know the course has different – presumably better – instructors nowadays.

[akirk]

Salted_Peanut said:

It's a fantastic course – and I highly recommend it – but don't feel pressured into driving faster than you feel comfortable.

In the John Lyon days, I felt unsafe pressure to drive more than briskly. Before taking the course, I had a trackday background yet felt John's pace was inappropriate for (non-police) road driving. He was teaching me as if I had police speed dispensation and was on emergency response. However, I know the course has different – presumably better – instructors nowadays.

It is a valid point - but I think the current course instructors would take a perspective which was much more about getting balance / flow / appropriate pace, rather than chasing speed - in fact all of those things give the infrastructure on which you can build greater speed if you wish - but that then becomes a choice... chasing speed as the goal tends to lead to unbalanced cars / messy braking / and a very uncomfortable passenger, so is definitely not the focus of the course...

having said that - the concept of speed will be one to discuss - some random thoughts:
- it is the driver's licence, their choice what speed they do, the coach will never tell them to / expect them to break the law.
- safety comes a long way ahead of pace or speed - if in doubt, back off. I was out driving with one of the coaches a couple of weeks ago, and we discussed the value of risk aversion / caution being balanced with pace - there was a definite support for a risk averse approach which is in balance - i.e. where needed...
- driving is like a piece of music with crescendos / diminuendos / times to speed up / slow down / for quick movements / slow smooth movements - and it is continually changing in one stretch of road, let alone through a journey... a big part of the course will be to understand those dynamics and to deliver them appropriately - a driver who simply puts their foot down at every de-restricted sign and drives at warp speed regardless of farm openings / bends / cyclists / etc. is a bad driver - equally, the driver who creeps along everywhere at 40 is also a bad driver - a good driver, which is where the course takes you will be using their observation to understand a much bigger picture than normal, to be ready and prepared for what comes ahead, and then to match pace / speed to the circumstances - clear road a mile ahead with no openings etc. - great, foot down and enjoy, going into dappled sunshine and trees on a series of bends - back off...

Police response is about balancing risk - with an incentive to be somewhere fast as a part of that equation - with the course and that style of non-police driving - there is never an incentive to be anywhere at any time, so the risk balance is of necessity very different - this course might be based on Roadcraft and police techniques, but that is because there is a lot to learn from them - it is not teaching civilians to drive in the same way as a police driver who has a job to deliver - in fact, it should take you down a route which could lead to better technical driving (the police have to compromise due to time / speed), it should never take you to the point of driving recklessly...

[waremark]

akirk said:

Police response is about balancing risk ...

At the risk of answering on behalf of police drivers, that could been seen to imply that a police driver's mission to arrive where he is needed justifies risk. That is contrary to a police driver's primary mission which is to arrive safely, and while driving to focus on the needs of the driving task, without regard to what is waiting for them at the end of the journey.

Of course I agree with most of what Mr Kirk says. The first time John Lyon got into the driving seat of my car to give a demonstration he was at 110 mph within one minute, that approach is now very ancient history. But I was as surprised by how slowly he drove where called for as how fast he drove where safe, and he had a regular refrain of 'matching speed to vision'. Matching speed to vision remains a vital skill.

[akirk]

waremark said:

akirk said:

Police response is about balancing risk ...

At the risk of answering on behalf of police drivers, that could been seen to imply that a police driver's mission to arrive where he is needed justifies risk. That is contrary to a police driver's primary mission which is to arrive safely, and while driving to focus on the needs of the driving task, without regard to what is waiting for them at the end of the journey.

Agreed, however there is a different balance of risk in a police driver’s journey under blue lights than we will ever choose - starting from the underlying principle that they have more options in which part of the road they use, to how they influence other road users, to the adrenalin they will experience, yes they should prioritise arriving safely, but by its nature their journey will have more risk than ours ever should…