How not to crash my new Tuscan

[PrinceRupert]

I will soon be taking ownership of a 4.0 TVR Tuscan. I don't have any real high performance driving experience - a couple of mildly quick fwd cars (Honda Civic Type R, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 v6) and one mildly quick modern rwd car (Fiat 124 Spider), plus a number of not even mildly quick cars. I know the general advice is "don't drive like a dick, you'll be fine", but obviously a Tuscan is a very light car with a lot of power, no driving aids and a bit of a reputation for being a bit of a handful, so I am a little apprehensive. In an ideal world, I'd do a day or two with an instructor, but not possible in the current lockdown (will likely look to do one after lockdown ends - presume a day with an advanced road instructor is better than a day with an instructor on a track/airfield/skidpan?).

In the meantime, any tips? I know the basic concepts of understeer v oversteer, rev matching to avoid locking up back wheels on downshift, brake / shift / turn / accelerate only when wheels are straight, be super careful in the cold / damp, but knowing the concepts is a little different to putting them into practice.

[Strudul]

I'd say advanced road instructor would not align with you goals. You seem to be seeking improved car control not road craft, so although better awareness / perception etc may reduce chance of getting into "scary" situations, it won't teach you how to react to them.

Probs best off on a airfield day to learn limits and develop instincts, or just learn through experience on the road and don't be a complete knob.

[PrinceRupert]

Yes, the desire is to learn to drive it quickly (and safely) on the road.

[akirk]

PrinceRupert said:

I will soon be taking ownership of a 4.0 TVR Tuscan. I don't have any real high performance driving experience - a couple of mildly quick fwd cars (Honda Civic Type R, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 v6) and one mildly quick modern rwd car (Fiat 124 Spider), plus a number of not even mildly quick cars. I know the general advice is "don't drive like a dick, you'll be fine", but obviously a Tuscan is a very light car with a lot of power, no driving aids and a bit of a reputation for being a bit of a handful, so I am a little apprehensive. In an ideal world, I'd do a day or two with an instructor, but not possible in the current lockdown (will likely look to do one after lockdown ends - presume a day with an advanced road instructor is better than a day with an instructor on a track/airfield/skidpan?).

In the meantime, any tips? I know the basic concepts of understeer v oversteer, rev matching to avoid locking up back wheels on downshift, brake / shift / turn / accelerate only when wheels are straight, be super careful in the cold / damp, but knowing the concepts is a little different to putting them into practice.

Perfect scenario for an advanced road instructor - Reg Local is often recommended on here - or there are a few others around the country...
generally speaking the issues with a high powered / not very tame car come either from:
- the driver is just stupid in how they drive / too much power and inappropriate conditions
- a driver who finds they need to react faster than expected / is caught unawares / who doesn't predict a tricky situation

those in the first category are not even likely to consider training - they probably assume that they are good drivers already
those in the second category will benefit hugely - advanced driving training is partially about technique, but a lot about observation / thinking ahead / predicting / planning - all of which will minimise situations which end up causing issues...

so, absolutely - do a day when you can but for now - maybe buy a copy of Roadcraft (the police manual) - or visit their online website (https://www.roadcraft.co.uk/) - the teaching in there will go a long way towards making sure you don't have any issues - handling skills teach you what you can do once an incident happens, but far better to be ahead of the game and prevent it...

[MorganP104]

I think the thing you need to find out is where the limits are with the TVR, and crucially, how the car reacts both on the limit, and just before the limit.

Being able to spot when a car is going to bite is probably one of the most useful things you can learn.

Of course, every car is different, so unless you are some sort of PH driving god, you'll need to learn this on a per-car basis.

Have yourself a day on a skidpan (with the TVR), being instructed by someone who knows what they're talking about, then go for some kind of advanced road driving course.

[Yazza54]

A skid pan maybe of some use, or some on track tuition. You have described some very basic states of handling and that you understand them, that's great and all, but what you need to develop is "feel".

[PrinceRupert]

akirk said:

Perfect scenario for an advanced road instructor - Reg Local is often recommended on here - or there are a few others around the country...
generally speaking the issues with a high powered / not very tame car come either from:
- the driver is just stupid in how they drive / too much power and inappropriate conditions
- a driver who finds they need to react faster than expected / is caught unawares / who doesn't predict a tricky situation

those in the first category are not even likely to consider training - they probably assume that they are good drivers already
those in the second category will benefit hugely - advanced driving training is partially about technique, but a lot about observation / thinking ahead / predicting / planning - all of which will minimise situations which end up causing issues...

so, absolutely - do a day when you can but for now - maybe buy a copy of Roadcraft (the police manual) - or visit their online website (https://www.roadcraft.co.uk/) - the teaching in there will go a long way towards making sure you don't have any issues - handling skills teach you what you can do once an incident happens, but far better to be ahead of the game and prevent it...

Thanks! RegLocal looks like the sort of chap I need to speak to. Any idea where he is based, it is not apparent from his website ...

[dvenman]

MorganP104 said:

I think the thing you need to find out is where the limits are with the TVR, and crucially, how the car reacts both on the limit, and just before the limit.

If you get *anywhere* near the handling limits of any car on a public road, then the speeds involved are probably out of all proportion to the view, in which of course you should be able to stop safely on your own side of the road.

[akirk]

PrinceRupert said:

akirk said:

Perfect scenario for an advanced road instructor - Reg Local is often recommended on here - or there are a few others around the country...
generally speaking the issues with a high powered / not very tame car come either from:
- the driver is just stupid in how they drive / too much power and inappropriate conditions
- a driver who finds they need to react faster than expected / is caught unawares / who doesn't predict a tricky situation

those in the first category are not even likely to consider training - they probably assume that they are good drivers already
those in the second category will benefit hugely - advanced driving training is partially about technique, but a lot about observation / thinking ahead / predicting / planning - all of which will minimise situations which end up causing issues...

so, absolutely - do a day when you can but for now - maybe buy a copy of Roadcraft (the police manual) - or visit their online website (https://www.roadcraft.co.uk/) - the teaching in there will go a long way towards making sure you don't have any issues - handling skills teach you what you can do once an incident happens, but far better to be ahead of the game and prevent it...

Thanks! RegLocal looks like the sort of chap I need to speak to. Any idea where he is based, it is not apparent from his website ...

I have a feeling that he is somewhere NorthWest, but not certain...
another option is: http://www.high-performance-course.com/ but that may be more structured than you want... but perhaps if a better location you could always talk to the course managers about options...

[Reg Local]

PrinceRupert said:

Thanks! RegLocal looks like the sort of chap I need to speak to. Any idea where he is based, it is not apparent from his website ...

I’m in Bolton - training is carried out generally in the Yorkshire Dales & North Pennines, starting and finishing in Bolton.

Drop me an email to [e-mail] or pm me through this site & I’ll get back to you with full details.

[Brian_996TT]

i had an idea for all rwd cars with a row of red l.e.d that show the steering angle so if the car oversteered you would know what way the wheels were pointing and either do a massive drift instead of going off the road

[popegregory]

dvenman said:

MorganP104 said:

I think the thing you need to find out is where the limits are with the TVR, and crucially, how the car reacts both on the limit, and just before the limit.

If you get *anywhere* near the handling limits of any car on a public road, then the speeds involved are probably out of all proportion to the view, in which of course you should be able to stop safely on your own side of the road.

This in spades. What on earth are you hoping to do on a public road that a Tuscan (ETA in fact any car with an MOT) couldn’t handle?!

[2gins]

I would suggest Car Limits as a good experience if you're London based.

Also, very much slow in, fast out. Not the other way around.

And get the geometry set up properly by someone who knows what they're doing. Lots of help in the TVR club pages. Welcome aboard

[popegregory]

2gins said:

Also, very much slow in, fast out. Not the other way around.

Did PW say that in your manual as well?

[PrinceRupert]

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not trying to learn to drift around roundabouts. The Tuscan has a bit of a reputation for being a bit unpredictable, so want to make sure I can drive it confidently, safely and quickly (within the speed limits, of course) on the public roads. Perhaps it doesn't deserve its reputation and I won't have any problems, but a little bit of extra training can never be a bad thing.

@Reg - I'll drop you an e-mail, though I'm London based so you might be a bit far away.

[PrinceRupert]

2gins said:

I would suggest Car Limits as a good experience if you're London based.

Also, very much slow in, fast out. Not the other way around.

And get the geometry set up properly by someone who knows what they're doing. Lots of help in the TVR club pages. Welcome aboard

Thanks. It looks like Car Limits might be about to go bust ...

https://www.carlimits.com/

"Unfortunately due to the tough trading times, CarLimits Ltd's future is uncertain. We are looking at all options including the sale of all or parts of the company."

[CABC]

i don't think skid pans are a panacea, sure they're relevant but the limit feel in the dry is quite different. i'd consider an airfield session like Car Limits, though the surface is a bit brutal and you'll probably burn a set of tyres.
I thought the Tuscan was a pussycat in comparison to earlier TVRs in that it would be you losing it rather than it biting you 'unexpectedly'.
sweet car. maybe check the release mechanism for boot and petrol cap is properly maintained!

[Mezzanine]

These guys are good. They are based at Millbrook Proving Ground so plenty of space to learn and they then take you out on roads if you desire. Colin has a good reputation.

CAT Driver Training

Junction 13 of the M1 so not too far out of London.

[PrinceRupert]

CABC said:

i don't think skid pans are a panacea, sure they're relevant but the limit feel in the dry is quite different. i'd consider an airfield session like Car Limits, though the surface is a bit brutal and you'll probably burn a set of tyres.
I thought the Tuscan was a pussycat in comparison to earlier TVRs in that it would be you losing it rather than it biting you 'unexpectedly'.
sweet car. maybe check the release mechanism for boot and petrol cap is properly maintained!

Thanks. At 700+ quid for a set of tyres, I'd rather avoid burning through them in a day I don't really want a day spend drifting round corners.

[Rick101]

PrinceRupert said:

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not trying to learn to drift around roundabouts. The Tuscan has a bit of a reputation for being a bit unpredictable, so want to make sure I can drive it confidently, safely and quickly (within the speed limits, of course) on the public roads. Perhaps it doesn't deserve its reputation and I won't have any problems, but a little bit of extra training can never be a bad thing.

@Reg - I'll drop you an e-mail, though I'm London based so you might be a bit far away.

Honestly. Worth it. I go almost every year for a refresher.
Reg Local offers such good value it easily leaves spare for overnight digs. You will want to be well rested!