Speed limit with no terminal signs
Discussion
Hi again 
Hopefully Advanced Driving is the correct sub-forum for this question.
There is a country road I drive on from time-to-time which has a crossroads on it leading to two smaller roads. All of these roads have, as long as I've known them, been NSL.
But t'other day when driving in that area I saw that the two smaller roads (the 'minor' ones from the crossroads) now have 40mph repeaters on them (this confused me when I saw them because I wondered where the start of the 40mph was, thinking I'd missed it!) But, it appears that these roads begin with repeaters (small roundels) rather than terminal signs (i.e. the bigger roundels, if my terminology is correct)
Here is a diagram which I have painstakingly reproduced in MS Paint with which to illustrate:
So when driving back from either of the minor roads onto the major road, there is no NSL sign at the crossroads. But, neither are there any 40mph repeaters anywhere on the major road so is it correct to treat the major road as NSL? (There are no streetlights).
Is there a danger that a policeman could say a driver should still be doing 40mph because they haven't passed an NSL sign when driving from the minor road onto the major road in this situation?
Hopefully Advanced Driving is the correct sub-forum for this question.
There is a country road I drive on from time-to-time which has a crossroads on it leading to two smaller roads. All of these roads have, as long as I've known them, been NSL.
But t'other day when driving in that area I saw that the two smaller roads (the 'minor' ones from the crossroads) now have 40mph repeaters on them (this confused me when I saw them because I wondered where the start of the 40mph was, thinking I'd missed it!) But, it appears that these roads begin with repeaters (small roundels) rather than terminal signs (i.e. the bigger roundels, if my terminology is correct)
Here is a diagram which I have painstakingly reproduced in MS Paint with which to illustrate:
So when driving back from either of the minor roads onto the major road, there is no NSL sign at the crossroads. But, neither are there any 40mph repeaters anywhere on the major road so is it correct to treat the major road as NSL? (There are no streetlights).
Is there a danger that a policeman could say a driver should still be doing 40mph because they haven't passed an NSL sign when driving from the minor road onto the major road in this situation?
To answer the OP's question, if there are no proper signs at the start of a speed limited section the limit is not enforceable. If the OP is correct that no such signs exist (maybe hidden behind foliage) the most likely explanations would be that the signs have fallen down or been removed, or that a new limit is being introduced (more likely) and the reminders have been put up before the start of limit signs.
I recently encountered a similar situation, reminders where I had not seen a start of a limit (or in the other direction a start of the NSL section). When I went back to check, I saw that there was a post on either side of the road without a sign on - what had become of the signs I have no idea. The situation has remained unchanged for at least a couple of months.
I recently encountered a similar situation, reminders where I had not seen a start of a limit (or in the other direction a start of the NSL section). When I went back to check, I saw that there was a post on either side of the road without a sign on - what had become of the signs I have no idea. The situation has remained unchanged for at least a couple of months.
waremark said:
To answer the OP's question, if there are no proper signs at the start of a speed limited section the limit is not enforceable. If the OP is correct that no such signs exist (maybe hidden behind foliage) the most likely explanations would be that the signs have fallen down or been removed, or that a new limit is being introduced (more likely) and the reminders have been put up before the start of limit signs.
Depending on the scale of the diagram, surely it would be much too early for a repeater after the intial limit sign? Though I imagine that TSRDG would make allowances for more frequent repeaters where appropriate.Edited by Haltamer on Wednesday 18th November 15:21
Thanks all
There are no 40mph terminal signs at the start of this new limit when approaching from the major road (it is definitely a new limit, twasn't there before).
The NSL road going towards the bottom of my diagram is a country road for many miles, no speed limit signs at all on there anywhere, it has always (as long as I've known it) been NSL.
Going towards the top of my diagram it eventually arrives at a 30mph village (or at least did the last time I went there!)
One thing I forgot mention is that, the minor road to the right on my diagram ends up in a town and there are 30mph terminal signs there as you'd expect. On the way back I did see that the 'reverse' of these terminal signs are now 40mph whereas they used to be NSL signs.
So coming from the town into the minor road on the right of my diagram, you get:
- 40mph terminal signs
- some 40mph repeaters along the minor road
nothing after the crossroads unless you go straight on (i.e. onto the leftmost minor road in my diagram, upon which there is at least one 40mph repeater (it is visible from the crossroads hence why I know it is there, I assume there are others along there but I'd need to drive along it to see what there is exactly).
Confusing!
There are no 40mph terminal signs at the start of this new limit when approaching from the major road (it is definitely a new limit, twasn't there before).
The NSL road going towards the bottom of my diagram is a country road for many miles, no speed limit signs at all on there anywhere, it has always (as long as I've known it) been NSL.
Going towards the top of my diagram it eventually arrives at a 30mph village (or at least did the last time I went there!)
One thing I forgot mention is that, the minor road to the right on my diagram ends up in a town and there are 30mph terminal signs there as you'd expect. On the way back I did see that the 'reverse' of these terminal signs are now 40mph whereas they used to be NSL signs.
So coming from the town into the minor road on the right of my diagram, you get:
- 40mph terminal signs
- some 40mph repeaters along the minor road
nothing after the crossroads unless you go straight on (i.e. onto the leftmost minor road in my diagram, upon which there is at least one 40mph repeater (it is visible from the crossroads hence why I know it is there, I assume there are others along there but I'd need to drive along it to see what there is exactly).
Confusing!
Edited by SpeedyTheTortoise on Wednesday 18th November 20:00
So it is now clear that there has been a recent introduction of a 40 mph limit on what the OP calls the minor road - and that it has been improperly signed, in that there needed to be signage on the major road before and after the cross roads to switch between 40 and national. Hopefully the Highways Dept are about to put up the necessary signs but I would suggest pointing this out to them just in case a mistake has been made - which with luck they may rectify when the county council next has some available budget!
Now that I've had more time, here is the google maps link - but the new 40mph signs are not shown of course as the street view is too old.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/55°50'45.0&...
This should take you directly to the crossroads. The major road in my initial diagram is the B7008.
The minor road I took was the one going NE from the crossroads, and I think the first repeater was approx. where I've drawn in red on this view:
And coming back the other way, I could see a repeater on the opposite minor road approx. here where I've drawn in red:
If I'm ever back up in that area I'll take more of a look at exactly where the repeaters are, but from memory they were mostly just stuck onto existing traffic sign poles along the minor road, so they were a bit haphazard in terms of distances between them.
I would have expected the terminal signs to be somewhere at the stop sign, because there was absolutely no 40mph repeaters or terminals along the B7008 (travelling South to North, as I was, at any rate - I couldn't say if there are any North of the crossroads).
When travelling back from the town and down the minor road back toward the crossroads, the NSL signs shown on this view are now 40 terminals:
It felt rather strange coming out of the 40mph on the minor road, back onto the major road at the crossroads without any more repeaters or terminals after that, as to whether I should stick at 40 or not!
https://www.google.com/maps/place/55°50'45.0&...
This should take you directly to the crossroads. The major road in my initial diagram is the B7008.
The minor road I took was the one going NE from the crossroads, and I think the first repeater was approx. where I've drawn in red on this view:
And coming back the other way, I could see a repeater on the opposite minor road approx. here where I've drawn in red:
If I'm ever back up in that area I'll take more of a look at exactly where the repeaters are, but from memory they were mostly just stuck onto existing traffic sign poles along the minor road, so they were a bit haphazard in terms of distances between them.
I would have expected the terminal signs to be somewhere at the stop sign, because there was absolutely no 40mph repeaters or terminals along the B7008 (travelling South to North, as I was, at any rate - I couldn't say if there are any North of the crossroads).
When travelling back from the town and down the minor road back toward the crossroads, the NSL signs shown on this view are now 40 terminals:
It felt rather strange coming out of the 40mph on the minor road, back onto the major road at the crossroads without any more repeaters or terminals after that, as to whether I should stick at 40 or not!
Edited by SpeedyTheTortoise on Saturday 21st November 14:58
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff