Roundabouts,,,,settle an argument?
Discussion
My daughter’s recently passed her driving test and whilst she acknowledges my god-liked driving skillz there is one area where she refuses to accept that I’m in the right.
Approaching a roundabout with 4 entrances / exits. It’s a 2 lane roundabout (although not all entrances or exits are two lanes). I join the roundabout, stay in L1 until I get to my exit, and then take L2 on the exit. I effectively drive straight into L2 (because in 30 yards further ahead I’m turning right).
Her driving instructor says she should exit the roundabout in L1, signal right, and then move across into L2. That just seems inefficient to me. Btw it would not be possible for anybody else to be overtaking me or to also be taking L2 at the same time due to the tightness of the roundabout.
So who is right?
Approaching a roundabout with 4 entrances / exits. It’s a 2 lane roundabout (although not all entrances or exits are two lanes). I join the roundabout, stay in L1 until I get to my exit, and then take L2 on the exit. I effectively drive straight into L2 (because in 30 yards further ahead I’m turning right).
Her driving instructor says she should exit the roundabout in L1, signal right, and then move across into L2. That just seems inefficient to me. Btw it would not be possible for anybody else to be overtaking me or to also be taking L2 at the same time due to the tightness of the roundabout.
So who is right?
Really need to see a picture of the RAB in question.
For me though, I'd plan to hold a L2 position on the RAB and exit maintaining that position. Several reasons:
1. Working backwards from the junction, 30 yards really isn't much space, I want to be in prime position for this junction upon leaving the RAB, not trying to execute a lane change while leaving a RAB, plus immediately slowing down on the exit of a RAB with traffic approaching from behind.
2. If you leave the RAB in L1, other traffic may make it difficult to change into L2 in time for the junction 30 yards later.
3. Signals. By leaving in L1, a RH indicator will suggest a lane change, but may mask the intention to take the upcoming junction as well. By leaving in L2, a RH indication after leaving the RAB will likely cause less confusion as it won't be confused for a lane change indication.
For me though, I'd plan to hold a L2 position on the RAB and exit maintaining that position. Several reasons:
1. Working backwards from the junction, 30 yards really isn't much space, I want to be in prime position for this junction upon leaving the RAB, not trying to execute a lane change while leaving a RAB, plus immediately slowing down on the exit of a RAB with traffic approaching from behind.
2. If you leave the RAB in L1, other traffic may make it difficult to change into L2 in time for the junction 30 yards later.
3. Signals. By leaving in L1, a RH indicator will suggest a lane change, but may mask the intention to take the upcoming junction as well. By leaving in L2, a RH indication after leaving the RAB will likely cause less confusion as it won't be confused for a lane change indication.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6603786,-1.17192...
This should demonstrate the same thing
Approach from Glenfrith way and head for Bennion road
Turn left from Glenfrith way directly into lane 2 on Anstey lane as that is the lane to turn right onto Bennion Road
Turning into lane 1 on Anstey lane means doing an extra lane change in a short space which is not recommended
This should demonstrate the same thing
Approach from Glenfrith way and head for Bennion road
Turn left from Glenfrith way directly into lane 2 on Anstey lane as that is the lane to turn right onto Bennion Road
Turning into lane 1 on Anstey lane means doing an extra lane change in a short space which is not recommended
I suppose I could have made the question simpler; If I'm going round a roundabout in L1 can I take L2 on the exit?
(ie L1 clearly goes into L1 on the exit, the centre lane on the RAB goes into L2 on the exit, or becomes L1 if you carry on around the roundabout). So in that situation I'd probably think my daughter was right and that a move from L1 to L2 would require an indicator - sorry
Thanks for all the replies. I think my daughter's DI is perhaps teaching her students to be very methodical and not advising that there might be times when you dont have to go "A"- mirror/signal/manoeuvre - "B"- mirror/signal/manoeuvre - "C" and it's possible to go direct fro A to C.
R0G said:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6603786,-1.17192...
This should demonstrate the same thing
Approach from Glenfrith way and head for Bennion road
Turn left from Glenfrith way directly into lane 2 on Anstey lane as that is the lane to turn right onto Bennion Road
Turning into lane 1 on Anstey lane means doing an extra lane change in a short space which is not recommended
Broadly similar. However your example seems to have two lanes exiting the RAB, both of which are delineated;This should demonstrate the same thing
Approach from Glenfrith way and head for Bennion road
Turn left from Glenfrith way directly into lane 2 on Anstey lane as that is the lane to turn right onto Bennion Road
Turning into lane 1 on Anstey lane means doing an extra lane change in a short space which is not recommended
(ie L1 clearly goes into L1 on the exit, the centre lane on the RAB goes into L2 on the exit, or becomes L1 if you carry on around the roundabout). So in that situation I'd probably think my daughter was right and that a move from L1 to L2 would require an indicator - sorry
Thanks for all the replies. I think my daughter's DI is perhaps teaching her students to be very methodical and not advising that there might be times when you dont have to go "A"- mirror/signal/manoeuvre - "B"- mirror/signal/manoeuvre - "C" and it's possible to go direct fro A to C.
Muddle238 said:
Really need to see a picture of the RAB in question.
For me though, I'd plan to hold a L2 position on the RAB and exit maintaining that position. Several reasons:
1. Working backwards from the junction, 30 yards really isn't much space, I want to be in prime position for this junction upon leaving the RAB, not trying to execute a lane change while leaving a RAB, plus immediately slowing down on the exit of a RAB with traffic approaching from behind.
2. If you leave the RAB in L1, other traffic may make it difficult to change into L2 in time for the junction 30 yards later.
3. Signals. By leaving in L1, a RH indicator will suggest a lane change, but may mask the intention to take the upcoming junction as well. By leaving in L2, a RH indication after leaving the RAB will likely cause less confusion as it won't be confused for a lane change indication.
My thinking exactly on all 3 points For me though, I'd plan to hold a L2 position on the RAB and exit maintaining that position. Several reasons:
1. Working backwards from the junction, 30 yards really isn't much space, I want to be in prime position for this junction upon leaving the RAB, not trying to execute a lane change while leaving a RAB, plus immediately slowing down on the exit of a RAB with traffic approaching from behind.
2. If you leave the RAB in L1, other traffic may make it difficult to change into L2 in time for the junction 30 yards later.
3. Signals. By leaving in L1, a RH indicator will suggest a lane change, but may mask the intention to take the upcoming junction as well. By leaving in L2, a RH indication after leaving the RAB will likely cause less confusion as it won't be confused for a lane change indication.
ETA I couldn't hold an L2 position on the RAB as I'm joining and then immediately leaving.
Edited by Countdown on Sunday 19th April 10:12
R0G said:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6603786,-1.17192...
This should demonstrate the same thing
These kinds of roundabouts are stupid.This should demonstrate the same thing
The problem is that the lanes peel off by themselves. So you don't need to indicate to say you are turning off the roundabout because you are not changing lane, you are just following the lane. But a lot of people do indicate because that's what they were taught to do before these types existed.
So say you have someone in L2. They indicate. Are they planning to enter L1 or just follow L2 off the roundabout?
Anyway, as for you, if you change lanes you need to indicate and you obviously need to make sure you check that the lane you are entering is clear. It's risky because your view of the other lane is slightly obscured by the curvature of the roundabout. It's a risky thing to do and if there was an accident you would probably be liable. So the teacher is right, best to stay in lane and then indicate and change later.
aestetix1 said:
These kinds of roundabouts are stupid.
The problem is that the lanes peel off by themselves. So you don't need to indicate to say you are turning off the roundabout because you are not changing lane, you are just following the lane. But a lot of people do indicate because that's what they were taught to do before these types existed.
So say you have someone in L2. They indicate. Are they planning to enter L1 or just follow L2 off the roundabout?
Anyway, as for you, if you change lanes you need to indicate and you obviously need to make sure you check that the lane you are entering is clear. It's risky because your view of the other lane is slightly obscured by the curvature of the roundabout. It's a risky thing to do and if there was an accident you would probably be liable. So the teacher is right, best to stay in lane and then indicate and change later.
Or be in L2 before you get to the RB The problem is that the lanes peel off by themselves. So you don't need to indicate to say you are turning off the roundabout because you are not changing lane, you are just following the lane. But a lot of people do indicate because that's what they were taught to do before these types existed.
So say you have someone in L2. They indicate. Are they planning to enter L1 or just follow L2 off the roundabout?
Anyway, as for you, if you change lanes you need to indicate and you obviously need to make sure you check that the lane you are entering is clear. It's risky because your view of the other lane is slightly obscured by the curvature of the roundabout. It's a risky thing to do and if there was an accident you would probably be liable. So the teacher is right, best to stay in lane and then indicate and change later.
TheInternet said:
HC rule 185:
You could look at this another way where the green car in lane 2 approaching the roundabout could go straight on second exit and exit into lane 2 especially if it was going to turn right AFTER the roundaboutLikewise if the blue car was "not making progress" i would do the same to get past it
When I teach roundabouts I say "ideally" if turning left or going straight on, keep to the nearside lane.....unless the lane markings/road signs tell you differently. For the driving test the driving examiner is looking to see if you are keeping effective observations of road signs/markings/other traffic and keeping your lane discipline on the approach/on/and exiting the roundabouts
So if OP went onto roundabout in lane 1 (blue car) and came off into lane 2....i suspect the driving examiners head would be frantically looking around to see if you were cutting someone up, and if like in the diagram the green car was along side on approach, and alongside as you entered the roundabout, I suspect he would be grabbing the wheel/ or thinking of doing so to keep you to nearside lane in case the green car did not turn right.
Just because a car has a signal on....does not mean it is going that way...it just means his indicators work...like wise if a car is not signalling (like the silver car) then you have no idea where it is going.....and looking at the picture, it suggests it is approaching at speed.....that green car could have a new passenger!!!
just my two pennies worth
Muddle238 said:
Really need to see a picture of the RAB in question.
For me though, I'd plan to hold a L2 position on the RAB and exit maintaining that position. Several reasons:
1. Working backwards from the junction, 30 yards really isn't much space, I want to be in prime position for this junction upon leaving the RAB, not trying to execute a lane change while leaving a RAB, plus immediately slowing down on the exit of a RAB with traffic approaching from behind.
2. If you leave the RAB in L1, other traffic may make it difficult to change into L2 in time for the junction 30 yards later.
3. Signals. By leaving in L1, a RH indicator will suggest a lane change, but may mask the intention to take the upcoming junction as well. By leaving in L2, a RH indication after leaving the RAB will likely cause less confusion as it won't be confused for a lane change indication.
This is what I would do. The point here is that the two lane exit maintains two lanes and there is a right turn 30 yards from the exit that the driver wishes to take. The point 3 above about causing confusion with the signal is very relevant here (observation and keeping space beside and between vehicles is the overriding issue of course).For me though, I'd plan to hold a L2 position on the RAB and exit maintaining that position. Several reasons:
1. Working backwards from the junction, 30 yards really isn't much space, I want to be in prime position for this junction upon leaving the RAB, not trying to execute a lane change while leaving a RAB, plus immediately slowing down on the exit of a RAB with traffic approaching from behind.
2. If you leave the RAB in L1, other traffic may make it difficult to change into L2 in time for the junction 30 yards later.
3. Signals. By leaving in L1, a RH indicator will suggest a lane change, but may mask the intention to take the upcoming junction as well. By leaving in L2, a RH indication after leaving the RAB will likely cause less confusion as it won't be confused for a lane change indication.
nonsequitur said:
But as he is in lane one on approach and on the RAB, a lane one exit would make sense and be safer. Not all RAB are as deserted as the one in the illustration. My nearest one is always much busier.
Blue car would not enter roundabout if another was coming from rightgoing directly into lane 2 makes sense and is safer than making a second unnecessary lane change
R0G said:
nonsequitur said:
But as he is in lane one on approach and on the RAB, a lane one exit would make sense and be safer. Not all RAB are as deserted as the one in the illustration. My nearest one is always much busier.
Blue car would not enter roundabout if another was coming from rightgoing directly into lane 2 makes sense and is safer than making a second unnecessary lane change
The blue car is taking the second exit. He is perfectly positioned for that manoevrve. I can see no advantage of switching to lane two. We must also factor in the ' lane one all the way round ' types.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff