Past and Present Driving Test
Discussion
I prety sure that when I passed my test in the 80s you were only allowed three minor mistakes, or have I got this wrong annd my memory is going in my old age?
Niece just passed her test on Monday, was surprised she had made four minor mistakes and still passed, even more surprised to be told your allowed 13!
Have I got my facts wrong?
Niece just passed her test on Monday, was surprised she had made four minor mistakes and still passed, even more surprised to be told your allowed 13!
Have I got my facts wrong?
Is actually 15 now, 16 is automatically a fail even without an outright serious.
I have in front of me a DL24 from a failed test in 1988 (not mine) which doesn't mark in terms of serious and dangerous faults (although internally it may have been marked that way). It simply marks the areas that need particular attention for next time.
When I failed my first test in 1991, I received no paperwork and the explanation wasn't in terms of minors and serious, just this is the problem that caused you to fail.
I have in front of me a DL24 from a failed test in 1988 (not mine) which doesn't mark in terms of serious and dangerous faults (although internally it may have been marked that way). It simply marks the areas that need particular attention for next time.
When I failed my first test in 1991, I received no paperwork and the explanation wasn't in terms of minors and serious, just this is the problem that caused you to fail.
finishing touch said:
A lot has changed since my test.
Probably not... At least in the way that you are suggesting,finishing touch said:
We always felt that if you drove with confidence you stood a better chance of a pass that a nervous unsure person.
Still the case. Lots of potentially borderline issues come up in driving tests. If you look and feel like you are right to be on the road, its far more likely that a DE will err towards giving you the benefit of doubt. If you feel pretty ropey and you get into a borderline area, far more likely a serious will be put down.finishing touch said:
It was OK then to cross your hands, as long as you didn't let go of the reins.
Still is - certainly has been since c. 1970, and I have a suspicion it pretty much always has been. What you hear today about driving tests are far more myth than actuality, and that has pretty much always been the case.Just about every student I teach 'knows' that touching the kerb in a manoeuvre is a fail, except that it isn't 90% of the time... Just one of many examples.
Op's Niece had a decent drive to pass with only 4 minor errors...in my view any less is good, 4 or less very good, 3 or less very very good, 2 or less...and I am smiling.
In 15 years of teaching I have had dozens pass with 2 minors, only 5 with 1 minor and 4 with no faults.
Someone told me once that the average instructor gets 1 no fault pass about every 8 years, as they are hard to get.
The modern driving test is far harder than tests taken even 5-10 years ago.
For me the main reasons is that the roads are so much more congested, and general public in such a rush, and very intolerant of others.
If Op's niece is old enough to drink...buy her one she did well
as an ADI I wish I had a tenner every time I hear from a parent "I passed my test first time, and only had 10 lessons"....yeah right...they wouldn't pass a modern test, in fact very few of us would......to make roads safer the government could make every one who tots up to 12 points retake a test after ban...Any drink driver banned the same, same for "no insurance"
Would be great seeing old folk in the test centre sat next to 17 year olds awaiting their names to be called out
In 15 years of teaching I have had dozens pass with 2 minors, only 5 with 1 minor and 4 with no faults.
Someone told me once that the average instructor gets 1 no fault pass about every 8 years, as they are hard to get.
The modern driving test is far harder than tests taken even 5-10 years ago.
For me the main reasons is that the roads are so much more congested, and general public in such a rush, and very intolerant of others.
If Op's niece is old enough to drink...buy her one she did well
as an ADI I wish I had a tenner every time I hear from a parent "I passed my test first time, and only had 10 lessons"....yeah right...they wouldn't pass a modern test, in fact very few of us would......to make roads safer the government could make every one who tots up to 12 points retake a test after ban...Any drink driver banned the same, same for "no insurance"
Would be great seeing old folk in the test centre sat next to 17 year olds awaiting their names to be called out
watchnut said:
Op's Niece had a decent drive to pass with only 4 minor errors...in my view any less is good, 4 or less very good, 3 or less very very good, 2 or less...and I am smiling.
In 15 years of teaching I have had dozens pass with 2 minors, only 5 with 1 minor and 4 with no faults.
Someone told me once that the average instructor gets 1 no fault pass about every 8 years, as they are hard to get.
The modern driving test is far harder than tests taken even 5-10 years ago.
For me the main reasons is that the roads are so much more congested, and general public in such a rush, and very intolerant of others.
If Op's niece is old enough to drink...buy her one she did well
as an ADI I wish I had a tenner every time I hear from a parent "I passed my test first time, and only had 10 lessons"....yeah right...they wouldn't pass a modern test, in fact very few of us would......to make roads safer the government could make every one who tots up to 12 points retake a test after ban...Any drink driver banned the same, same for "no insurance"
Would be great seeing old folk in the test centre sat next to 17 year olds awaiting their names to be called out
In 95 I passed my car test first time with 3 lessons, I may have been breaking the law by driving you known beforehand! A week later I took my class one or as it is called now the C+E but failed the first one but passed on the second go. failed on taking 3 shunts in the reversing part.In 15 years of teaching I have had dozens pass with 2 minors, only 5 with 1 minor and 4 with no faults.
Someone told me once that the average instructor gets 1 no fault pass about every 8 years, as they are hard to get.
The modern driving test is far harder than tests taken even 5-10 years ago.
For me the main reasons is that the roads are so much more congested, and general public in such a rush, and very intolerant of others.
If Op's niece is old enough to drink...buy her one she did well
as an ADI I wish I had a tenner every time I hear from a parent "I passed my test first time, and only had 10 lessons"....yeah right...they wouldn't pass a modern test, in fact very few of us would......to make roads safer the government could make every one who tots up to 12 points retake a test after ban...Any drink driver banned the same, same for "no insurance"
Would be great seeing old folk in the test centre sat next to 17 year olds awaiting their names to be called out
3 weeks from passing car to HGV / C+E. I do agree the congestion has a lot to play now and fook me even in Bristol I do try to not drive a car as nobody seems to indicate or look / plan forward and I gave up trucks in 97.
I passed my car test in 1977, no lessons, just borrowed a mate's car & had someone with a full licence accompany me to the test centre. I had been driving off road for several years though & had also passed my motorbike test a week after my 17th birthday, also no lessons.
Fast forward 43 years & I've done my HGV, 2 days of tuition & passed on day 3 with only 1 minor fault. At least the examiners actually talk to you nowadays!
Fast forward 43 years & I've done my HGV, 2 days of tuition & passed on day 3 with only 1 minor fault. At least the examiners actually talk to you nowadays!
The “minors” are handed out like confetti though. Things like “your observation could have been better” is a minor fault.
I did very little wrong and managed to pickup about 4 of them.
I think they’ve done it so they can point out how and where one can improve. Rather than it being a “fault” consider it more like a “less than absolutely perfect”.
I did very little wrong and managed to pickup about 4 of them.
I think they’ve done it so they can point out how and where one can improve. Rather than it being a “fault” consider it more like a “less than absolutely perfect”.
markyb_lcy said:
The “minors” are handed out like confetti though. Things like “your observation could have been better” is a minor fault.
I did very little wrong and managed to pickup about 4 of them.
I think they’ve done it so they can point out how and where one can improve. Rather than it being a “fault” consider it more like a “less than absolutely perfect”.
No recorded faults doesn't mean it was perfect. There is a level of fault below 'driving fault' (minor doesn't actually exist as a term in the test). You can commit a fault that the examiner doesn't consider worthy of recording even though it was below the standard they were expecting from you in that situation.I did very little wrong and managed to pickup about 4 of them.
I think they’ve done it so they can point out how and where one can improve. Rather than it being a “fault” consider it more like a “less than absolutely perfect”.
Faults are recorded in line with the tools of assessment, not handed around like confetti for the sake of it.
Passed my bike test in 87 and then my car test in 88.
The bike test comprised the 2 part test with half a days tuition and a basic off road low speed test. The second part of the test was a joke as the examiner was on foot!
When I took my car test I had been out with my father a few times which generally resulted in us arguing😀. My examiner was the same chap I had for my bike test so we spent most of the time talking about bikes!
The bike test comprised the 2 part test with half a days tuition and a basic off road low speed test. The second part of the test was a joke as the examiner was on foot!
When I took my car test I had been out with my father a few times which generally resulted in us arguing😀. My examiner was the same chap I had for my bike test so we spent most of the time talking about bikes!
Took my bike test in 1972.
The examiner to declined to ride on the back saying he'd rather walk. That didn't stop him sneeking around and jumping out in front of me once.
In 1973 my car tests required to do funny waves out of the window...having had to hand crank the thing down. And after all that all he said was 'I am sorry but you have failed to reach the standard required'. After hearing these disappointing words twice I decided 'I must do better'.
The examiner to declined to ride on the back saying he'd rather walk. That didn't stop him sneeking around and jumping out in front of me once.
In 1973 my car tests required to do funny waves out of the window...having had to hand crank the thing down. And after all that all he said was 'I am sorry but you have failed to reach the standard required'. After hearing these disappointing words twice I decided 'I must do better'.
I took my car test in 1991 and passed on the first occasion. The only thing about it I can remember about it was that a cat ran out from between parked cars and my having to make an emergency stop. The examiner told me that because of that, he wouldn't need to do his own emergency stop check. I took my motorcycle test after a direct access course in 2001 and also passed first time. That time I had to do a separate theory test which I hadn't had to do for my 1991 test. I have no idea how anyone can remember how many faults were recorded on their tests after a few years!
Lunerone......if i had been out with you when the cat had ran across the road, I would have challenged afterwards and asked
"Was the emergency stop worth the risk of carrying it out?"
Implying that if a human had been hurt by you carrying out the harsh braking would it have been worth saving the cat?
An emergency stop should only take place if HUMAN life is endangered, you should never risk losing control of the vehicle over an animal.....Maybe your "controlled" stop on your driving test was not quite a full on emergency stop? What if a vehicle behind you had run into the back of you? Would you have passed then? Could one of the persons in either car been injured?....would that be worth it for a cat?.....or any other animal?
It is instinctive for us to brake suddenly if "something" appears in front of us, for me I have to discipline myself to try to react that human life is more important than any animal, after all I will not go to prison, and be able to sleep the following night over an animal....but not killing a human because of an action I panicked for
I like many other drivers have killed animals on the roads, it is not nice, but it happens
A question for you all...."Do you have to report to Police if you kill a cat?" well a second..."What animals do you have to report killing to Police with a vehicle?"
"Was the emergency stop worth the risk of carrying it out?"
Implying that if a human had been hurt by you carrying out the harsh braking would it have been worth saving the cat?
An emergency stop should only take place if HUMAN life is endangered, you should never risk losing control of the vehicle over an animal.....Maybe your "controlled" stop on your driving test was not quite a full on emergency stop? What if a vehicle behind you had run into the back of you? Would you have passed then? Could one of the persons in either car been injured?....would that be worth it for a cat?.....or any other animal?
It is instinctive for us to brake suddenly if "something" appears in front of us, for me I have to discipline myself to try to react that human life is more important than any animal, after all I will not go to prison, and be able to sleep the following night over an animal....but not killing a human because of an action I panicked for
I like many other drivers have killed animals on the roads, it is not nice, but it happens
A question for you all...."Do you have to report to Police if you kill a cat?" well a second..."What animals do you have to report killing to Police with a vehicle?"
watchnut said:
Lunerone......if i had been out with you when the cat had ran across the road, I would have challenged afterwards and asked
"Was the emergency stop worth the risk of carrying it out?"
Implying that if a human had been hurt by you carrying out the harsh braking would it have been worth saving the cat?
An emergency stop should only take place if HUMAN life is endangered, you should never risk losing control of the vehicle over an animal.....
Source please?"Was the emergency stop worth the risk of carrying it out?"
Implying that if a human had been hurt by you carrying out the harsh braking would it have been worth saving the cat?
An emergency stop should only take place if HUMAN life is endangered, you should never risk losing control of the vehicle over an animal.....
watchnut said:
Maybe your "controlled" stop on your driving test was not quite a full on emergency stop? What if a vehicle behind you had run into the back of you? Would you have passed then?
That's what mirrors are for. The examiner who is trained in such matters decided it was the correct course of action in that situation.watchnut said:
Could one of the persons in either car been injured?....would that be worth it for a cat?.....or any other animal?
You're not really saying that you wouldn't brake for any animal in the road are you?watchnut said:
It is instinctive for us to brake suddenly if "something" appears in front of us, for me I have to discipline myself to try to react that human life is more important than any animal, after all I will not go to prison, and be able to sleep the following night over an animal....but not killing a human because of an action I panicked for
I like many other drivers have killed animals on the roads, it is not nice, but it happens
See, it really does sound like you're saying one should never take emergency action for any animal. I like many other drivers have killed animals on the roads, it is not nice, but it happens
watchnut said:
A question for you all...."Do you have to report to Police if you kill a cat?" well a second..."What animals do you have to report killing to Police with a vehicle?"
https://www.gov.uk/report-dead-animalwatchnut said:
Lunerone......if i had been out with you when the cat had ran across the road, I would have challenged afterwards and asked
"Was the emergency stop worth the risk of carrying it out?"
Implying that if a human had been hurt by you carrying out the harsh braking would it have been worth saving the cat?
An emergency stop should only take place if HUMAN life is endangered, you should never risk losing control of the vehicle over an animal.....Maybe your "controlled" stop on your driving test was not quite a full on emergency stop? What if a vehicle behind you had run into the back of you? Would you have passed then? Could one of the persons in either car been injured?....would that be worth it for a cat?.....or any other animal?
At the time, there was no such thing as a 20mph limit, but I was proceeding carefully down a residential road with cars parked on both sides of the road and room only for one car to pass. I would have been doing no more than 20mph, and surely would have been aware whether there was a vehicle following me in the hyper-alert situation of a driving test. My decision to perform an emergency stop in that situation was made very quickly, and I don't know whether I would have made a different decision had there been a vehicle behind me. I was clearly a very inexperienced driver, as I was on my driving test! But the fact remains that any traffic behind me should have maintained a large enough gap that they can cope with the vehicle in front performing an emergency stop. Isn't that a basic tenet of driving? Being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear?"Was the emergency stop worth the risk of carrying it out?"
Implying that if a human had been hurt by you carrying out the harsh braking would it have been worth saving the cat?
An emergency stop should only take place if HUMAN life is endangered, you should never risk losing control of the vehicle over an animal.....Maybe your "controlled" stop on your driving test was not quite a full on emergency stop? What if a vehicle behind you had run into the back of you? Would you have passed then? Could one of the persons in either car been injured?....would that be worth it for a cat?.....or any other animal?
Are you suggesting that drivers should take into account how close a following vehicle is in the heat of the moment of an emergency stop? In this sort of situation where both sides of the road are lined with parked vehicles, it's not always easy to see what has emerged into the road - it could be a cat or a dog or a toddler and there may not be time to make that determination before deciding what action to take.
Morning William....
in response to your questions....
Emergencies can happen- for instance when a child runs into the road in front of you (Note a HUMAN has run out in front of you) you must know how to stop the vehicle quickly under control....so swerving or skidding into the path of an oncoming vehicle, or onto a pavement for an animal ? source is "driving the essential skills " a DSA official publication...my copy page 73
In the same copy, on the same page it also states "Don't make a special point of looking in the mirror-you should know what's behind anyway" Did Lunarone check his mirrors before braking? I bet he can't remember, but, if the D/E had, and seen he nearly caused a crash because of his actions for the cat, then his result may well have been different
You challenged if I wouldn't brake for an animal....well it depends
Once on a 50MPG road a white dove decided to land in front of my car, I already knew a car was behind me too close, so I continued my current speed, went over the dove, felt the "Bump" under my car looked in the rear view mirror, and saw a wall of white feathers behind me....then a car came through them braking very hard...strangely enough he kept his distance after that
Another time in the dark, I was being tail gated again by a young girl in a Ford KA, all of a sudden a Deer ran out in front of me...(they are quick and hard to see) I checked my mirror as I braked, I didn't full on emergency stop...just as well I didn't...the girl behind me panicked, and braked hard, I released the brake, hit the Deer, it was thrown down onto the road, and I braked again, it got up and ran off through a gap in the hedge, I pulled over, but it was gone, the girl behind me just drove off, lucky for her I didn't full on brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in she would have been hurt, me and my wife less so sat in the front of a V70
Another time driving down the A34 very late at night with a temp speed limit of 50 MPG, the central reservation had a solid temp barrier along the length of it. I was doing 50 MPG, as we drove along an HGV came up behind me, and was very very close to rear of my car, I suspect he was trying to "push" me along.....there was no oncoming traffic, so I had my main beam on, I picked up an object in lane 2 by the barrier, both me and my wife said "It's a Hare!" it was looking at the barrier, sat on it's hornishes, I dared not lift off because of the lorry, thought that as I was in lane 1 and Hare in lane 2 by barrier , best bet to carry on.....well it decided to run back to near side....straight under my car, I felt a big double bang as it first hit the front of my MX5, and another under my seat, I looked behind me as bits of Hare flew into the front of the HGV....now would it have been a good idea to brake hard then? or lift off? with 32-40 tonnes of lorry behind me?
and well done you looked up "reportable" animals
A good friend of mine is a Vet, she hates it when members of the public bring in animals that have been hit by vehicles, they are unwilling to pay for the treatment of said animal, and has had people then had to have hospital treatment because the animal in it's pain bitten them/kicked them when trying to "comfort" them..
I live in the New Forest, we have many animals hit, injured and killed every year by people driving past them too fast too close. So I do care for them respecting that wild animals are not "road trained" anymore than a two year child is, only my respect for human life is more important than that of an animal, so I would try never to hurt a human if "avoiding" action meant an animal is hurt/killed, and go further to say if you believe the animal should be saved rather than the protect human life you shouldn't be in charge of a motor vehicle
in response to your questions....
Emergencies can happen- for instance when a child runs into the road in front of you (Note a HUMAN has run out in front of you) you must know how to stop the vehicle quickly under control....so swerving or skidding into the path of an oncoming vehicle, or onto a pavement for an animal ? source is "driving the essential skills " a DSA official publication...my copy page 73
In the same copy, on the same page it also states "Don't make a special point of looking in the mirror-you should know what's behind anyway" Did Lunarone check his mirrors before braking? I bet he can't remember, but, if the D/E had, and seen he nearly caused a crash because of his actions for the cat, then his result may well have been different
You challenged if I wouldn't brake for an animal....well it depends
Once on a 50MPG road a white dove decided to land in front of my car, I already knew a car was behind me too close, so I continued my current speed, went over the dove, felt the "Bump" under my car looked in the rear view mirror, and saw a wall of white feathers behind me....then a car came through them braking very hard...strangely enough he kept his distance after that
Another time in the dark, I was being tail gated again by a young girl in a Ford KA, all of a sudden a Deer ran out in front of me...(they are quick and hard to see) I checked my mirror as I braked, I didn't full on emergency stop...just as well I didn't...the girl behind me panicked, and braked hard, I released the brake, hit the Deer, it was thrown down onto the road, and I braked again, it got up and ran off through a gap in the hedge, I pulled over, but it was gone, the girl behind me just drove off, lucky for her I didn't full on brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in she would have been hurt, me and my wife less so sat in the front of a V70
Another time driving down the A34 very late at night with a temp speed limit of 50 MPG, the central reservation had a solid temp barrier along the length of it. I was doing 50 MPG, as we drove along an HGV came up behind me, and was very very close to rear of my car, I suspect he was trying to "push" me along.....there was no oncoming traffic, so I had my main beam on, I picked up an object in lane 2 by the barrier, both me and my wife said "It's a Hare!" it was looking at the barrier, sat on it's hornishes, I dared not lift off because of the lorry, thought that as I was in lane 1 and Hare in lane 2 by barrier , best bet to carry on.....well it decided to run back to near side....straight under my car, I felt a big double bang as it first hit the front of my MX5, and another under my seat, I looked behind me as bits of Hare flew into the front of the HGV....now would it have been a good idea to brake hard then? or lift off? with 32-40 tonnes of lorry behind me?
and well done you looked up "reportable" animals
A good friend of mine is a Vet, she hates it when members of the public bring in animals that have been hit by vehicles, they are unwilling to pay for the treatment of said animal, and has had people then had to have hospital treatment because the animal in it's pain bitten them/kicked them when trying to "comfort" them..
I live in the New Forest, we have many animals hit, injured and killed every year by people driving past them too fast too close. So I do care for them respecting that wild animals are not "road trained" anymore than a two year child is, only my respect for human life is more important than that of an animal, so I would try never to hurt a human if "avoiding" action meant an animal is hurt/killed, and go further to say if you believe the animal should be saved rather than the protect human life you shouldn't be in charge of a motor vehicle
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