How would you deal with this short slip road
Discussion
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.8015859,-1.6740573...
Pudsey, Leeds from the Owlcotes shopping centre onto the ring road A6120 if anyone knows it. It's a slight uphill slip from with no visibility until you reach the level then you have a couple of seconds to decide whether to go or slam on the anchors onto a 70mph road.
The issue for those already on the carriageway is there a joining slip just a bit further back from the carriageway so many have just built their speed up and entered lane one and then you've got this joining slip immediately after it.
I was using the slip in question yesterday and I put my foot down on the approach to about 50pmh and as I reached the level I saw a vehicle in lane 1 closing in my wing mirror and due to having such little time to decide if it was safe I pressed the brake quickly and firmly but he flashed me out. In hindsight I could have probably gone in front of him without this exchange and me braking/impeding him but I'm wondering if there is a better technique with these split second decisions short slip roads?
Pudsey, Leeds from the Owlcotes shopping centre onto the ring road A6120 if anyone knows it. It's a slight uphill slip from with no visibility until you reach the level then you have a couple of seconds to decide whether to go or slam on the anchors onto a 70mph road.
The issue for those already on the carriageway is there a joining slip just a bit further back from the carriageway so many have just built their speed up and entered lane one and then you've got this joining slip immediately after it.
I was using the slip in question yesterday and I put my foot down on the approach to about 50pmh and as I reached the level I saw a vehicle in lane 1 closing in my wing mirror and due to having such little time to decide if it was safe I pressed the brake quickly and firmly but he flashed me out. In hindsight I could have probably gone in front of him without this exchange and me braking/impeding him but I'm wondering if there is a better technique with these split second decisions short slip roads?
In many areas, the main road would have been limited down to 40 or 50 mph.
I don’t know the road, but I would probably be aiming for 50mph in an appropriately low enough gear up to the point at which my view of the main road would be adequate to emerge, and then accelerate into a suitable gap. I find there is nearly always a suitable gap, and I have never known anyone not adjust their speed to let you in. If you think about it, the most sensible, controllable, and predictable situation is to let someone in by lifting off - having someone brake to a stop on that entry slip is a recipe for disaster for all.
Until you actually see the volume and speed of traffic on the main road you cannot assess what is the best merging speed. In terms of kinetic energy 50mph gives about half that of 70mph, so seems a suitable approach speed until vision allows a better assessment.
I don’t know the road, but I would probably be aiming for 50mph in an appropriately low enough gear up to the point at which my view of the main road would be adequate to emerge, and then accelerate into a suitable gap. I find there is nearly always a suitable gap, and I have never known anyone not adjust their speed to let you in. If you think about it, the most sensible, controllable, and predictable situation is to let someone in by lifting off - having someone brake to a stop on that entry slip is a recipe for disaster for all.
Until you actually see the volume and speed of traffic on the main road you cannot assess what is the best merging speed. In terms of kinetic energy 50mph gives about half that of 70mph, so seems a suitable approach speed until vision allows a better assessment.
Edited by Pica-Pica on Wednesday 6th November 10:40
Thank you for the comments. I knew there would be comments about it not being ‘short’ in the eyes of many advanced drivers.
However, locally it is noted as a short slip road and avoided by quite a few people.
You can’t see a thing to your right as you drive up the incline, it’s only when the road levels you can see traffic. I took a driving lesson on this road a couple of years ago and the instructor commented it was much shorter than he realised.
Thing is, there are comments here (appreciated) ranging from advising to be at 30mph, 50mph and 70mph. So it’s hard to know unless the road is very quiet or very congested. It’s that middle , free flowing situation I suppose I’m referring to.
However, locally it is noted as a short slip road and avoided by quite a few people.
You can’t see a thing to your right as you drive up the incline, it’s only when the road levels you can see traffic. I took a driving lesson on this road a couple of years ago and the instructor commented it was much shorter than he realised.
Thing is, there are comments here (appreciated) ranging from advising to be at 30mph, 50mph and 70mph. So it’s hard to know unless the road is very quiet or very congested. It’s that middle , free flowing situation I suppose I’m referring to.
Edited by cat__ on Wednesday 6th November 11:36
Doesn't seem that short in reality but may seem worse on it. I'd be aiming at about 50 at a guess - it's easier to lift off/brake into a gap.
Here's one of my favourites:
A34 S to A303 East:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/?link=https://www.google.c...
Here's one of my favourites:
A34 S to A303 East:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/?link=https://www.google.c...
Edited by meatballs on Wednesday 6th November 14:53
lyonspride said:
I'm not seeing this "short slip road"........
All you have to do there is look through the armco on the uphill and adjust your speed to match traffic. If your driving up to the merge and then looking for traffic then a) your doing it wrong, and b) it's too late.
I agree, you may be able to get some indication of traffic volume and speed by looking through the shrubbery before the Armco.All you have to do there is look through the armco on the uphill and adjust your speed to match traffic. If your driving up to the merge and then looking for traffic then a) your doing it wrong, and b) it's too late.
The thing that disturbs me is that, if you trace the slip road right back it is a 30 limit up the slip road until the NSL sign at the merge (I may be wrong and it also may have changed, but that is what google view shows). That seems a recipe for an accident if you keep to the 30 limit. That should be NSL somewhere up the slip road climb, or the main traffic should be reduced to 40 or 50 at the merge point.
Edited to add. There is a ‘pedestrians crossing’ sign just at the merge, and you can see the footpath going to the road edge and the track over the central reservation! A totally f
ked up road layout, if you ask me.Edited by Pica-Pica on Wednesday 6th November 15:21
There are several similar slip roads on the A34 dual carriageway around Oxford. There are enclaves of houses where the only way out for a car is onto the A34. Some in the nominally 50 mph areas don't even have a slip road. Hardly any have an adequate view of approachng traffic. It's poor design and lack of investment.
Peter3442 said:
There are several similar slip roads on the A34 dual carriageway around Oxford. There are enclaves of houses where the only way out for a car is onto the A34. Some in the nominally 50 mph areas don't even have a slip road. Hardly any have an adequate view of approachng traffic. It's poor design and lack of investment.
At least where there is no slip road there is no immediate pressure to merge in for fear of the person behind you slamming into the back of you because they are also looking in their mirrors rather than you infront, nor drivers on the main carriageway slamming on anchors because they are unsure if someone is going to join.They are probably not safer overall at a guess - I've seen some shocking joins of people pulling Infront of people doing 70 from side junctions and maybe only getting up to 20 or so before near collision.
fesuvious said:
You know the speed of the road you're joining.
You know the capabilities of your car.
You can see how much space you have.
Next, you should position your car for maximum visability. In this instance yes, use all visual clues you can find, look through to the right where possible. However, also consider the position your car needs to be in as you crest and need that rearward view from your wing mirror. So, stay to the right as you crest so you can see more.
The road looks like traffic would likely flow past @45-60mph. So, you know you need to be at a speed that will enable you to accelerate to merge. You do not though want to be going too fast to not have time to readjust downwards in the event you need to.
So, we know that as you crest you would probably want to be somewhere @10-15mph off the speed you might expect to merge at.
This is all rough and approximate. It has to be.
So, gear. If you are cresting in 5th or 6th you do not have the acceleration nor the available engine braking to be able to cope with any outcome. So, likely 3rd or 4th is where its at, circa 3500rpm as your visibility opens and you have options becoming available.
n.b Visibility means looking ahead as far as you can see (google for limit point analysis). Many many people think they do this. Only a handful actually do. If your vision sits 20ft in front of bonnet then the info you need has been available for yonks by the time your brain receives it. It also means turning your bloody head when needed! Many drivers barely move their head, just straining for the mirror view. If the mirror view does not give you all you need turn your darn head!
Once you have the vision from the mirror, and you have assessed the flow etc you need to re-position. Bring the car left to open up your own space and buy more time. Note the word 'bring' as opposed to 'dart', 'yank' 'dive'.
Get the information, by positioning to do so.
Keep the car equipped to deal with whatever that info is
Position correctly for your next move (merging)
Merge at the correct speed and hopefully into the very gap you identified shortly after you looked at the flow.
You ignore the fact that the slip road is a 30 limit until the NSL signYou know the capabilities of your car.
You can see how much space you have.
Next, you should position your car for maximum visability. In this instance yes, use all visual clues you can find, look through to the right where possible. However, also consider the position your car needs to be in as you crest and need that rearward view from your wing mirror. So, stay to the right as you crest so you can see more.
The road looks like traffic would likely flow past @45-60mph. So, you know you need to be at a speed that will enable you to accelerate to merge. You do not though want to be going too fast to not have time to readjust downwards in the event you need to.
So, we know that as you crest you would probably want to be somewhere @10-15mph off the speed you might expect to merge at.
This is all rough and approximate. It has to be.
So, gear. If you are cresting in 5th or 6th you do not have the acceleration nor the available engine braking to be able to cope with any outcome. So, likely 3rd or 4th is where its at, circa 3500rpm as your visibility opens and you have options becoming available.
n.b Visibility means looking ahead as far as you can see (google for limit point analysis). Many many people think they do this. Only a handful actually do. If your vision sits 20ft in front of bonnet then the info you need has been available for yonks by the time your brain receives it. It also means turning your bloody head when needed! Many drivers barely move their head, just straining for the mirror view. If the mirror view does not give you all you need turn your darn head!
Once you have the vision from the mirror, and you have assessed the flow etc you need to re-position. Bring the car left to open up your own space and buy more time. Note the word 'bring' as opposed to 'dart', 'yank' 'dive'.
Get the information, by positioning to do so.
Keep the car equipped to deal with whatever that info is
Position correctly for your next move (merging)
Merge at the correct speed and hopefully into the very gap you identified shortly after you looked at the flow.
Also 5th or 6 th is fine in an 8 speed box!
Mammasaid said:
That is short but a bit more straightfoward- you would expect to be moving very slowly as you pass the give way sign, looking for a gap to accelerate into. I would stop at that point if there was no gap. No question of charging up it counting on a gap appearing!I take a similarly short slip road every morning; a blind 90 degree bend leads onto a 50 metre sliproad onto a 70mph dual carriageway. I posted about it on here a few years ago, although in 5 years of taking it the only problems it's given me have been from other drivers, who insist on joining the dual carriageway at 30mph and some even stop at the giveway 
This sliproad from the OP is similar, although instead of the blind bend there's a 30mph limit that goes NSL when my sliproad bend ends - so very similar in speed profile, and due to the elevation, vision too.
Taking it solo is easy, you just join at a middling speed where you can stop if necessary, or accelerate if all is ok - that decision is made when you first have vision of what's on the DC.
Other cars are harder to cope with - I normally back off to get a decent gap and let them do their thing. It can be hard though when they actually stop, which is incredibly dangerous.
This sliproad from the OP is similar, although instead of the blind bend there's a 30mph limit that goes NSL when my sliproad bend ends - so very similar in speed profile, and due to the elevation, vision too.Taking it solo is easy, you just join at a middling speed where you can stop if necessary, or accelerate if all is ok - that decision is made when you first have vision of what's on the DC.
Other cars are harder to cope with - I normally back off to get a decent gap and let them do their thing. It can be hard though when they actually stop, which is incredibly dangerous.
I appreciate all the replies and the in-depth replies are very interesting. I have an auto so the low gear for flexibility doesn't really apply sadly. I deliberately 'looked up to my right' as I was driving up the incline to see if I could see/sense the traffic but that was useless.
I admit I did not cranked my head around when I was on the level to look at the carriageway which I normally do on slip roads. A decision needed to be made very quickly at 50mph (I think I had maybe 2 seconds) and as I had visibility in my wing mirror I was about to abort the merge due to the car in lane 1 until he flashed me out.
Maybe I should have wound my driver door window down to get a better feel for the situation?
At 5.20 on this video the instructor avoids using the slip road I'm referring to, calling it 'extremely tricky'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRi9wiGkU9Y
Maybe it's a sign to not bother in future!
I admit I did not cranked my head around when I was on the level to look at the carriageway which I normally do on slip roads. A decision needed to be made very quickly at 50mph (I think I had maybe 2 seconds) and as I had visibility in my wing mirror I was about to abort the merge due to the car in lane 1 until he flashed me out.
Maybe I should have wound my driver door window down to get a better feel for the situation?
At 5.20 on this video the instructor avoids using the slip road I'm referring to, calling it 'extremely tricky'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRi9wiGkU9Y
Maybe it's a sign to not bother in future!
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