Overtake - Make Own Gap
Discussion
Followed a car on a well known, winding, single lanes in both directions, A road showing NSL in dry, clear and lightish traffic.
He was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
He was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
T5R+ said:
Followed a car on a well known, winding, single lanes in both directions, A road showing NSL in dry, clear and lightish traffic.
He was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
I don't think that's natural, that's lack of awareness of the overtakee. If you're being overtaken you should expect the overtaker to need to move back in, if there isn't a gap they should make one, if there isn't a gap they're too close to the car in front anywayHe was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
keirik said:
T5R+ said:
Followed a car on a well known, winding, single lanes in both directions, A road showing NSL in dry, clear and lightish traffic.
He was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
I don't think that's natural, that's lack of awareness of the overtakee. If you're being overtaken you should expect the overtaker to need to move back in, if there isn't a gap they should make one, if there isn't a gap they're too close to the car in front anywayHe was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
I'm happy to be corrected though.
When overtaking you should put your foot down and do it cleanly without having to rely on the overtaken cars having to alter their pace, if your car isn't upto it then you should just follow until there's a larger gap.
One of the things that annoys me about my weekend car is that it doesn't have that much power (just over 200) which makes overtaking frustrating especially when the car you're overtaking suddenly realises and accelerates, far less stressful in my daily which has over double the power.
One of the things that annoys me about my weekend car is that it doesn't have that much power (just over 200) which makes overtaking frustrating especially when the car you're overtaking suddenly realises and accelerates, far less stressful in my daily which has over double the power.
Tycho said:
keirik said:
T5R+ said:
Followed a car on a well known, winding, single lanes in both directions, A road showing NSL in dry, clear and lightish traffic.
He was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
I don't think that's natural, that's lack of awareness of the overtakee. If you're being overtaken you should expect the overtaker to need to move back in, if there isn't a gap they should make one, if there isn't a gap they're too close to the car in front anywayHe was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
I'm happy to be corrected though.
I'd never do anything unsafe but sometimes the overtaken car needs a little incentive to make the space they should have left in the first place, and that might be moving into a slightly smaller than optimal gap.
Opinions may vary though
keirik said:
I understand what you're saying but that's how we end up with 40 cars behind one knob.
I'd never do anything unsafe but sometimes the overtaken car needs a little incentive to make the space they should have left in the first place, and that might be moving into a slightly smaller than optimal gap.
Opinions may vary though
Then you run the risk of trying to get into a gap that isn't there and the person being overtaken closing it even more on you because they take offense in being overtaken. I've seen this often on the motorway. I'd just hang back as one of the 40 cars and get home in one piece.I'd never do anything unsafe but sometimes the overtaken car needs a little incentive to make the space they should have left in the first place, and that might be moving into a slightly smaller than optimal gap.
Opinions may vary though
Ardennes92 said:
Personally I think if you can’t or don’t want to pass you should not be so selfish and leave room to allow others to make progress
I agree but there are a lot of oblivious people, people who don't think you should overtake and a
holes on the roads who think they should police the roads and will block you off.keirik said:
T5R+ said:
Followed a car on a well known, winding, single lanes in both directions, A road showing NSL in dry, clear and lightish traffic.
He was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
I don't think that's natural, that's lack of awareness of the overtakee. If you're being overtaken you should expect the overtaker to need to move back in, if there isn't a gap they should make one, if there isn't a gap they're too close to the car in front anywayHe was pretty smooth through the bends/twists with virtually no use of brakes and making progress.
We caught up with 3 cars doing 50ish and fairly close to each other who slowed and braked at virtually every bend.
Vehicle in front of me left sufficient room for a period of time and a few miles. Then he proceeded to indicate and pass the vehicle in front of him BUT had to brake and slot in - it was pretty clear that he could not pass all three in one move. He then proceeded to "pick off" the 2nd and subsequently the 3rd car ie pass, brake, slot in. Naturally, this caused the overtakee to "panic" brake.
I am torn as to who is "wrong". The guy who was ovetaking and "forcing" others to make room for him to slot in or the 3 who left virtually no room for others to pass yet would not themselves overtake.
(Chap did not seem like a hooligan, was in a run of the mill 4 door saloon, abiding by speed limits, using indicators, etc)
I agree that the other driver shouldn't follow too closely but that doesn't excuse the former.
Wrong & wrong doesn't make a right.
Ardennes92 said:
Personally I think if you can’t or don’t want to pass you should not be so selfish and leave room to allow others to make progress
You're assuming those drivers are thinking but they are not. Unaware of the situation around them or problems they are causing, they just sit too close to the slow vehicle in front. Naturally we are pedestrians and most can't break that habit.The answer is: the overtaker has kept the power on too long. It’s a natural tendency that needs training to overcome. Once the overtaker has drawn level with the car being overtaken they should lift off because by then they are going fast enough to complete the overtake but not so fast that they can’t slot in without having to slam on to avoid running up the back of the next car in the line.
66mpg said:
The answer is: the overtaker has kept the power on too long. It’s a natural tendency that needs training to overcome. Once the overtaker has drawn level with the car being overtaken they should lift off because by then they are going fast enough to complete the overtake but not so fast that they can’t slot in without having to slam on to avoid running up the back of the next car in the line.
I have occasionally done this and it is most satisfying 
The bonus is not having glaring brakelights in the face of the overtakee!
I think it would leave you more stranded than the 'Powwwaaaaa, Braaaaaake!!' method if the overtakee decides to boot it to stop you, though
I don’t need anyone to leave me a gap, I can slot my car into any gap that is only a little longer than the length of my car. All I’m doing is robbing their space, they can drop back. The truth is that I’m only overtaking them if i’m Overtaking all of them so as far as they’re concerned I’ll be gone in a few seconds anyway.
I was quite surprised that our defensive driving instructors (ex-plod) at work encouraged this - just overtake a line of cars and indicate and cut in if something appears coming towards you.
I’m sure it works fine in a marked police car but it’s a different kettle of fish in the real world for the reasons others have pointed out.
I’m sure it works fine in a marked police car but it’s a different kettle of fish in the real world for the reasons others have pointed out.
Usually when I overtake I make sure there is plenty of room in front of the car ahead of me (2 car lengths). that way they don't panic and harsh brake and this way I have enough time to react should anything happen before I slot in. I don't expect people to make way for me as its not their obligation.
However, if someone is overtaking me, I would drop back to give them more room than they need.
I hate it the most when you try overtake someone but they speed up causing you to drop back behind them, only for them to go slow again
Respect that people want go faster than you. Don't police the roads, unless you're a copper
However, if someone is overtaking me, I would drop back to give them more room than they need.
I hate it the most when you try overtake someone but they speed up causing you to drop back behind them, only for them to go slow again
Respect that people want go faster than you. Don't police the roads, unless you're a copper
Edited by y.k on Sunday 4th August 04:34
Crippo said:
I don’t need anyone to leave me a gap, I can slot my car into any gap that is only a little longer than the length of my car. All I’m doing is robbing their space, they can drop back. The truth is that I’m only overtaking them if i’m Overtaking all of them so as far as they’re concerned I’ll be gone in a few seconds anyway.
Nah, I'm with von here... the crowbar overtake might have been acceptable practice 15-20 years ago but times change. I'm not sure quite how prevalent it is in current Police training circles, but I'd imagine it's not something done with gay abandon on Standard Car courses when there is a distinct absence of blue lights to ease the passage. Not to mention the lack of poke in the cars selected for training in. On the civilian side of driving, it's just not worth the aggravation should you get stuck in front of the overtakee because road layout or traffic conditions change. It's purely an overtake for ego's sake as all you've done is swap the running order and potentially annoyed the Red Bull-drinking, goatee-sporting, powerfully built Company Director to the level that he's prepared to follow you back to your house to remonstrate with you as to your lack of driving prowess.
Slotting your way into a gap robbing someone of their thinking distance is pretty f
k-witted. Causing another road user to either brake or change their direction of motion is s3 RTA and, depending on outcome a smaller number. And where do you set the limit on the number of cars in front before you stop and say, you know what, it's not worth it? Unless you're on a very long journey, the difference in travel time is going to be marginal.Top trolling BTW...
Overtaking in this manner isn't very advanced driving, and put the overtaking car and overtaken vehicle at risk if something unexpected happens, as suddenly everyone is far too close to each other for the speed they are going.
In theory the overtaken vehicle should leave space for a vehicle to slot in however just because he hasn't doesn't mean the overtaking vehicle should perform an overtake in these circumstances.
Its not something that would be taught on any IAM/ROSPA advvance driving and would be frowned upon on a police driving course (when making progress without blue lights, blue lights and sirens would tend to open up the gap as people would be more aware of you coming)
In theory the overtaken vehicle should leave space for a vehicle to slot in however just because he hasn't doesn't mean the overtaking vehicle should perform an overtake in these circumstances.
Its not something that would be taught on any IAM/ROSPA advvance driving and would be frowned upon on a police driving course (when making progress without blue lights, blue lights and sirens would tend to open up the gap as people would be more aware of you coming)
Crippo said:
I don’t need anyone to leave me a gap, I can slot my car into any gap that is only a little longer than the length of my car. All I’m doing is robbing their space, they can drop back. The truth is that I’m only overtaking them if i’m Overtaking all of them so as far as they’re concerned I’ll be gone in a few seconds anyway.
One day you'e going to meet someone who closes the gap & leaves you nowhere to go. Mr Pointy said:
Crippo said:
I don’t need anyone to leave me a gap, I can slot my car into any gap that is only a little longer than the length of my car. All I’m doing is robbing their space, they can drop back. The truth is that I’m only overtaking them if i’m Overtaking all of them so as far as they’re concerned I’ll be gone in a few seconds anyway.
One day you'e going to meet someone who closes the gap & leaves you nowhere to go. 
Hogstar said:
Overtaking in this manner isn't very advanced driving, and put the overtaking car and overtaken vehicle at risk if something unexpected happens, as suddenly everyone is far too close to each other for the speed they are going.
In theory the overtaken vehicle should leave space for a vehicle to slot in however just because he hasn't doesn't mean the overtaking vehicle should perform an overtake in these circumstances.
Its not something that would be taught on any IAM/ROSPA advvance driving and would be frowned upon on a police driving course (when making progress without blue lights, blue lights and sirens would tend to open up the gap as people would be more aware of you coming)
I’m somewhat confused by this, just how big is this ‘space’ that you should leave to allow someone to overtake you?In theory the overtaken vehicle should leave space for a vehicle to slot in however just because he hasn't doesn't mean the overtaking vehicle should perform an overtake in these circumstances.
Its not something that would be taught on any IAM/ROSPA advvance driving and would be frowned upon on a police driving course (when making progress without blue lights, blue lights and sirens would tend to open up the gap as people would be more aware of you coming)
In reality if cars are just following each other without showing overtaking inclination then they might be following each other with a 2 second gap (assuming reasonably competent drivers). So are we saying we cannot overtake anyone here? By definition overtaking in this (pretty typical) scenario is going to create a 1 second gap in front and behind you so inevitably causing the overtaken car to slow slightly (hopefully without brake use). Most drivers will see the overtaking driver and ease off accordingly, you can’t just assume you aren’t going to change speed if someone overtakes you.
Of course you may encounter those idiots that actually close the gap to prevent you cutting back in and thus create a dangerous situation, here a faster car does help as you can be back in before thay have chance to increase speed.
Clearly in the OP scenario the driver is tootling along on autopilot without and clue what’s happening behind him.
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