disappointing first session of IAM training
Discussion
What I was hoping for:
- how to safely make progress (using the full width of the road when safe, safe overtaking etc)
- how to improve observation skills and assess the situation
- defensive driving techniques
What I got:
- that infuriatingly retarded 'push pull' steering method, even while maneuvering in a car park.
- a long talk on the 2 second rule
- NEVER exceed the posted speed limit, under any circumstances
- check your mirrors at least 3 times before you do anything. ANYTHING.
Before today I was under the impression that the above mentioned 'correct' and inflexible way of driving is necessary while learning, but that once a certain level of competency and experience is achieved that rigidity can be relaxed somewhat and further training can then focus on situational awareness.
I am absolutely convinced that trying to remember to steer hand to hand and do the correct number of mirror checks in the correct sequence before making a simple left turn on a quiet road made me a worse driver today; making the exaggerated head tilt so that the instructor could register my mirror check made me less aware of what was going on ahead of me; my steering inputs were jerky and inaccurate because I was forcing myself to operate the vehicle in an counter intuitive way; approaching junctions I was caught up in thinking what my next prescribed action has to be to properly asses the situation I was approaching.
I am not a perfect driver but I really do strive to be alert, aware and attentive, I actually do drive with two hands on the wheel 99% of the time, and I'm forever checking my mirrors and blind spot. I've been driving 14 years and never been involved in an accident. I spend most of my life driving tiny <1000 kg hatchbacks but have also spent a lot of time driving large and heavily laden 4x4 and trailer combinations in ice, snow and foul weather. I've also done a bit of advanced driver training at Millbrook for stuff like threshold breaking, brake and steer, handling at the limit of grip etc.
I was hoping IAM would develop my skills from there, not to go back to feeling like I was on my first driving lesson.
I have one more session then the test. The instructor reckons I'll pass the test without much difficulty, but at this point I remain entirely unconvinced of the value of it.
Was I expecting too much?
- how to safely make progress (using the full width of the road when safe, safe overtaking etc)
- how to improve observation skills and assess the situation
- defensive driving techniques
What I got:
- that infuriatingly retarded 'push pull' steering method, even while maneuvering in a car park.
- a long talk on the 2 second rule
- NEVER exceed the posted speed limit, under any circumstances
- check your mirrors at least 3 times before you do anything. ANYTHING.
Before today I was under the impression that the above mentioned 'correct' and inflexible way of driving is necessary while learning, but that once a certain level of competency and experience is achieved that rigidity can be relaxed somewhat and further training can then focus on situational awareness.
I am absolutely convinced that trying to remember to steer hand to hand and do the correct number of mirror checks in the correct sequence before making a simple left turn on a quiet road made me a worse driver today; making the exaggerated head tilt so that the instructor could register my mirror check made me less aware of what was going on ahead of me; my steering inputs were jerky and inaccurate because I was forcing myself to operate the vehicle in an counter intuitive way; approaching junctions I was caught up in thinking what my next prescribed action has to be to properly asses the situation I was approaching.
I am not a perfect driver but I really do strive to be alert, aware and attentive, I actually do drive with two hands on the wheel 99% of the time, and I'm forever checking my mirrors and blind spot. I've been driving 14 years and never been involved in an accident. I spend most of my life driving tiny <1000 kg hatchbacks but have also spent a lot of time driving large and heavily laden 4x4 and trailer combinations in ice, snow and foul weather. I've also done a bit of advanced driver training at Millbrook for stuff like threshold breaking, brake and steer, handling at the limit of grip etc.
I was hoping IAM would develop my skills from there, not to go back to feeling like I was on my first driving lesson.
I have one more session then the test. The instructor reckons I'll pass the test without much difficulty, but at this point I remain entirely unconvinced of the value of it.
Was I expecting too much?
From what I've heard the IAM can vary hugely depending on what assessor you get and what group you join.
There are other advanced driving organisations that are materially more progressive and seem far better aligned to your aims, one of which I am a member of and which has a number of current and former IAM members also so it may not be fault of the organisation persay.
How old are you? - if <30ish there is an even on this weekend which may give a good introduction....
There are other advanced driving organisations that are materially more progressive and seem far better aligned to your aims, one of which I am a member of and which has a number of current and former IAM members also so it may not be fault of the organisation persay.
How old are you? - if <30ish there is an even on this weekend which may give a good introduction....
I don't know if they're fundamentally different but we did RoSPA defensive driving at work (or at least the RoSPA test) with ex-(and some serving, but moonlighting) Police advanced drivers and I thought it was all a bit bleedin' obvious.
"Defensive" is some way off though - most of them were pretty forceful, which suited me but some of our guys didn't like that way of driving at all.
"Defensive" is some way off though - most of them were pretty forceful, which suited me but some of our guys didn't like that way of driving at all.
kiethton said:
From what I've heard the IAM can vary hugely depending on what assessor you get and what group you join.
There are other advanced driving organisations that are materially more progressive and seem far better aligned to your aims, one of which I am a member of and which has a number of current and former IAM members also so it may not be fault of the organisation persay.
How old are you? - if <30ish there is an even on this weekend which may give a good introduction....
I'm 31, is this a club 18 - 30 type organisation? There are other advanced driving organisations that are materially more progressive and seem far better aligned to your aims, one of which I am a member of and which has a number of current and former IAM members also so it may not be fault of the organisation persay.
How old are you? - if <30ish there is an even on this weekend which may give a good introduction....
Chris32345 said:
Why would you think they would allow you to exceed to speed limit on the road?
They would leave there self's open to claims if the had you speeding on the course
I see where they are coming from, but during my driving lessons I was taught that it is acceptable to slightly exceed the speed limit if necessary to safely complete an overtake, say 75 mph while overtaking on a DC or motorway.They would leave there self's open to claims if the had you speeding on the course
Has the attitude changed that much since 2005?
angoooose said:
Do I understand correctly? You've had one session, then you have one more then your test?
When I observed, I always warned new associates that their driving would often get worse before it got better.
31's a little old - see the HPC young driver's day post - you can but ask
correct, 2 sessions (half day each) then the test.When I observed, I always warned new associates that their driving would often get worse before it got better.
31's a little old - see the HPC young driver's day post - you can but ask
thanks, I'll go have a look at the HPC thread.
edit: just popped my head 'round the door in the HPC thread, looks like I'm 5 years too late for that course
also busy this weekend, so a no-go sadly
Edited by deadtom on Tuesday 23 July 14:59
kiethton said:
From what I've heard the IAM can vary hugely depending on what assessor you get and what group you join.
Yep, each person has their own interpretation of Roadcraft etc, in my experience the same goes for RoSPA too. Breaking the speed limit is an absolute offence and as civilians we cannot exceed it. However, and from my experience with the IAM and RoSPA, it was generally accepted by the examiners if you briefly exceeded the limit (within reason) to make a swift overtake, that was OK. The examiner preferred you to do that rather than drive/ride behind someone at 50mph for 45mins! You'd never get them to put that in writing though!With regard 'push/pull', I used that technique when I did my RoSPA test and I carry on doing it to this day. I dont see a problem with it and with a little practice it can be done as smoothly and quickly as hand over hand.
Both RoSPA and the IAM didn't allow crossing the centre line and for good reason, they are both road safety organisations and this is a potentially dangerous technique to allow people to practice.
I'd stick with it, maybe see if you can go out with different tutors, listen to what they have to say and form you own understanding of the system. I learnt a great deal with my time with IAM/RoSPA, remember, what they teach is the system the police use. Some of what they teach may seem anal but once you have mastered all the techniques they will help when you want to 'push on a bit' in your own time.
Edited by _Hoppers on Tuesday 23 July 15:18
IIRC the position is that an 'instructor' in the IAM or RoSPA would not be liable if you were caught speeding because they are not specifically instructing you to drive in a certain manner - they are observing your driving and offering feedback, hence being called 'observers'.
I may be wrong, though, lol.
I imagine that the IAM person was trying to get some core aspects behind the IAM system embedded into your driving from the off, rather than having to try to add them in when you are doing other stuff later on, so I'm not massively surprised you didn't cover a whole host of things on Session 1.
I am surprised that you only have two sessions booked, though - that seems really very few to grasp and master core driving principles within any given system that you are being graded on following.
Unless you are already Class 1 level and were just looking for a session to confirm what an examiner will be looking for?
FWIW my understanding was that the IAM were getting less flexible in their training and assessment, what with recent changes to set out a core 'syllabus' that observers must follow, whereas before everything was a lot more open to interpretation and flexible application, I believe.
My personal opinion is that IAM are eroding their position of being a respected driver training organisation and kowtowing to vehemently anti-car and anti-mobility organisations with statements such as the following, so they won't be getting any more of my money:
https://www.transportxtra.com/publications/local-t...
I may be wrong, though, lol.
I imagine that the IAM person was trying to get some core aspects behind the IAM system embedded into your driving from the off, rather than having to try to add them in when you are doing other stuff later on, so I'm not massively surprised you didn't cover a whole host of things on Session 1.
I am surprised that you only have two sessions booked, though - that seems really very few to grasp and master core driving principles within any given system that you are being graded on following.
Unless you are already Class 1 level and were just looking for a session to confirm what an examiner will be looking for?
FWIW my understanding was that the IAM were getting less flexible in their training and assessment, what with recent changes to set out a core 'syllabus' that observers must follow, whereas before everything was a lot more open to interpretation and flexible application, I believe.
My personal opinion is that IAM are eroding their position of being a respected driver training organisation and kowtowing to vehemently anti-car and anti-mobility organisations with statements such as the following, so they won't be getting any more of my money:
https://www.transportxtra.com/publications/local-t...
Tim Shallcross - head of technical policy for IAM Roadsmart said:
Tim Shallcross, head of technical policy for IAM Roadsmart, welcomed the reductions in speed limits for air quality purposes but said they needed enforcement, because many drivers were unaware of the consequences of air pollution or chose to ignore it.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Tuesday 23 July 15:37
_Hoppers said:
Yep, each person has their own interpretation of Roadcraft etc, in my experience the same goes for RoSPA too. Breaking the speed limit is an absolute offence and as civilians we cannot exceed it. However, and from my experience with the IAM and RoSPA, it was generally accepted by the examiners if you briefly exceeded the limit (within reason) to make a swift overtake, that was OK. The examiner preferred you to do that rather than drive/ride behind someone at 50mph for 45mins! You'd never get them to put that in writing though!
With regard 'push/pull', I used that technique when I did my RoSPA test and I carry on doing it to this day. I dont see a problem with it and with a little practice it can be done as smoothly and quickly as hand over hand.
Both RoSPA and the IAM didn't allow crossing the centre line and for good reason, they are both road safety organisations and this is a potentially dangerous technique to allow people to practice.
I'd stick with it, maybe see if you can go out with different tutors, listen to what they have to say and form you own understanding of the system. I learnt a great deal with my time with IAM/RoSPA, remember, what they teach is the system the police use. Some of what they teach may seem anal but once you have mastered all the techniques they will help when you want to 'push on a bit' in your own time.
Yes I suppose in this increasingly litigious age any organisation would be loath to be seen to allow any deviation from the rules, even if that does run counter to the aims they are trying to achieve in the first place. Your 50 mph example is fairly apt; the instructor suggested I pass an HGV doing ~45 in lane one, however by the time we were half way along the length of the HGV, it was now also doing 50 so I had to drop back in behind rather than press on a little more to get past and complete the maneuver. With regard 'push/pull', I used that technique when I did my RoSPA test and I carry on doing it to this day. I dont see a problem with it and with a little practice it can be done as smoothly and quickly as hand over hand.
Both RoSPA and the IAM didn't allow crossing the centre line and for good reason, they are both road safety organisations and this is a potentially dangerous technique to allow people to practice.
I'd stick with it, maybe see if you can go out with different tutors, listen to what they have to say and form you own understanding of the system. I learnt a great deal with my time with IAM/RoSPA, remember, what they teach is the system the police use. Some of what they teach may seem anal but once you have mastered all the techniques they will help when you want to 'push on a bit' in your own time.
Edited by _Hoppers on Tuesday 23 July 15:18
I concur that hand to hand is the right way to drive for low magnitude but safety critical driving, i.e. on a motorway its imperative to be in full control, but unless it's gone very wrong you will not need more than around a quarter turn of handwheel input. The thing that grates me is the insistence that during low speed maneuvers that require full lock, reverse bay park for example, you must also pass the wheel hand to hand, because it's the rules.
I will stick with it because the company is paying for it, and I am hoping it will get better with the next session, but I'd be extremely miffed if it were my money as I don't suppose the training is particularly cheap.
I had a very unenjoyable time with my IAM group as did Miss Bert, we tried it at the same time. She learned to drive in the U17 car club so was very familiar with the 'rules of the system' and was a very capable track driver in my Caterham. She just got terminally patronised. I too was very familiar with Roadcraft from my time at U17CC, but the IAM sessions were ghastly. My first observer was fixated with the skid risks of accelerating out of roundabouts before the wheel was straight. He just kept on and on about it. Then I went out with the chief whatsit and she was really painful. Patronising, trite and ineffective. Hey ho, I know they are all volunteers and amateurs, so the experience will be very different in other groups.
Bert
Bert
deadtom said:
What I was hoping for:
- how to safely make progress (using the full width of the road when safe, safe overtaking etc)
- how to improve observation skills and assess the situation
- defensive driving techniques
I dont think the IAM is for you.- how to safely make progress (using the full width of the road when safe, safe overtaking etc)
- how to improve observation skills and assess the situation
- defensive driving techniques
1. You wont be taught how to use the full width of the road in the first lesson, these techniques are reserved for the Master Sessions. You have to read the road and stay within the confines of your side. As for safe overtaking, it will come...but not on the first lesson.
2. You should learn some observation skills, they are hot on looking as far ahead as possible so if you are approaching a bend you look, where possible, over the hedge...up the hill...etc to spot other vehicles, bikes etc. Also they will give you the theory of short, middle and long distances to look at.
3. Defensive driving techniques I dont think are covered in the lessons...when doing the blue light training there is a big emphasis on it.
deadtom said:
What I was hoping for:
What I got:
- that infuriatingly retarded 'push pull' steering method, even while maneuvering in a car park.
- a long talk on the 2 second rule
- NEVER exceed the posted speed limit, under any circumstances
- check your mirrors at least 3 times before you do anything. ANYTHING.
Dont rule out the push pull....I used to laugh at it and think it was just daft, but it has its place and I actually do it more and more...just on quick slow moving turns tend to cross in the name of speed! Went on an off-road course recently and it still had its place on there too.What I got:
- that infuriatingly retarded 'push pull' steering method, even while maneuvering in a car park.
- a long talk on the 2 second rule
- NEVER exceed the posted speed limit, under any circumstances
- check your mirrors at least 3 times before you do anything. ANYTHING.
Dont believe the bulls
t about thumbs and airbags as to why you dont stick your thumbs into the inside of the wheel...they will say it will snap your thumbs off in the event the airbag goes off...absolute rubbish! Been to enough RTCs now to know that doesnt happen! It does however stop your thumbs being broken in the event of hitting a curb similar to the theory behind off-roading and the wheel snatching.They are all about promoting safety...so the 2 second rule is quite relevant and should really be adhered to. Likewise the speed limits are there for a reason so they cant really tell you it is safe to exceed them.
Checking mirrors is probably a habit I am glad I have started doing again. You take what you want from these lessons and apply them for your test. What you believe works for you keep and adopt for your everyday driving. However some of the stupid ideas, like the 201 point check list for turning off the bloody engine you might want to cut down to 1...turn off the engine! But like everything use the system and then make it your own.
Maybe you should consider talking to RegLocal as he is close to you. It wont be free, but you will get something that is far more tailored to your driving style and he will show you more about the 3 key areas you wanted to learn
Bike rather than car, but my one and only IAM experience was an introductory talk where I was lectured for turning up in jeans and hiking boots instead of "proper clothing".
The fact I was in kevlar lined jeans and the boots were actually altberg all weather hogs was apparently irrelevant.
I didn't go back
ETA.
I did actually have another IAM experience, when I recounted this tale on an FB page, and got a tirade of abuse from IAM members for daring to criticise
The fact I was in kevlar lined jeans and the boots were actually altberg all weather hogs was apparently irrelevant.
I didn't go back
ETA.
I did actually have another IAM experience, when I recounted this tale on an FB page, and got a tirade of abuse from IAM members for daring to criticise
angoooose said:
Do I understand correctly? You've had one session, then you have one more then your test?
When I observed, I always warned new associates that their driving would often get worse before it got better.
31's a little old - see the HPC young driver's day post - you can but ask
I’d ask, know of a few approved that were slightly older.When I observed, I always warned new associates that their driving would often get worse before it got better.
31's a little old - see the HPC young driver's day post - you can but ask
Observers must all be different. I was told I could do what I liked in a car park but pull/push everywhere else. Personally I like pull/push and thumbs out as it's comfortable and more efficient for me, unless I'm on a track.
I'm also surprised you've only been allocated two sessions. Typical it's six according to my local as there's a fair amount to cover within the logbook.
Imo it does sound like you're expecting too much. I can't think of any course (driving or otherwise) where I wouldn't stick it out but we're all different. IME opinions cloud and form a barrier to learning so tend to just do as I'm told and form opinions afterwards.
Personally I found parts of it a bit stuffy but ultimately I just sucked it up for the learning experience. It's not like you're forced to apply it all once you've passed but I found a lot of it that's still really relevant to me.
I'm also surprised you've only been allocated two sessions. Typical it's six according to my local as there's a fair amount to cover within the logbook.
Imo it does sound like you're expecting too much. I can't think of any course (driving or otherwise) where I wouldn't stick it out but we're all different. IME opinions cloud and form a barrier to learning so tend to just do as I'm told and form opinions afterwards.
Personally I found parts of it a bit stuffy but ultimately I just sucked it up for the learning experience. It's not like you're forced to apply it all once you've passed but I found a lot of it that's still really relevant to me.
Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm glad I am not the only one who is a little bit disillusioned with IAM, but also it does sound like I came into it with slightly the wrong idea of what it would be about.
I am being put through the course for work, so I have done very little reading about what the course is as I would have done were it my money being invested.
The instructor is very good, and is very up front about some of the more archaic aspects being just that, and I just need to suck it up for the test and, like others have said, I can take what works for me and discard what doesn't.
I am wary of coming across as holding the opinion that I am already a great driver and IAM can't teach me anything new, as this is absolutely not my feelings on the matter. I wan't to learn and become a better driver, but hopefully these things will come in time and the next session will be better.
I am being put through the course for work, so I have done very little reading about what the course is as I would have done were it my money being invested.
The instructor is very good, and is very up front about some of the more archaic aspects being just that, and I just need to suck it up for the test and, like others have said, I can take what works for me and discard what doesn't.
I am wary of coming across as holding the opinion that I am already a great driver and IAM can't teach me anything new, as this is absolutely not my feelings on the matter. I wan't to learn and become a better driver, but hopefully these things will come in time and the next session will be better.
I did IAM 20+ years ago, and felt similarly to you...
the biggest thing it did though was instil some basic rigour / method into some elements of my driving...
the HPC young driver's day - shame you can't make it (there can be flexibility on age) would have I think opened your eyes to what advanced driving is about and shown you a lot of what you seek - observation being a big part of it - and then driving to the road / conditions / etc. - using ritual and methods as tools, but not being beholden to them...
if you have a general interest, then it is worth looking at the full course:
http://www.high-performance-course.com/
the young drivers' day is run by those who have been through that course as a taster to encourage others to do the course - I would say that the course was transformational in how I drive, and has opened up a fascination / love of driving beyond what I had previously... the course managers are fantastic - good sense of humour and phenomenal drivers who have been there and done it...
The course is not cheap - but very worthwhile - and you could contact the nearest course manager to do the 1/2 day assessment and then see where that takes you...
you can also pop over to AD Hub - www.advanceddrivinghub.com - the AD forum (NB I run it, so...
) and members on there are from all backgrounds and ages and run days when they get together... it is definitely not all pull-push and string-backed driving gloves, despite some sarcastic remarks you might see on here 
but don't give up on the idea because one organisation has one approach to how it does it...
the biggest thing it did though was instil some basic rigour / method into some elements of my driving...
the HPC young driver's day - shame you can't make it (there can be flexibility on age) would have I think opened your eyes to what advanced driving is about and shown you a lot of what you seek - observation being a big part of it - and then driving to the road / conditions / etc. - using ritual and methods as tools, but not being beholden to them...
if you have a general interest, then it is worth looking at the full course:
http://www.high-performance-course.com/
the young drivers' day is run by those who have been through that course as a taster to encourage others to do the course - I would say that the course was transformational in how I drive, and has opened up a fascination / love of driving beyond what I had previously... the course managers are fantastic - good sense of humour and phenomenal drivers who have been there and done it...
The course is not cheap - but very worthwhile - and you could contact the nearest course manager to do the 1/2 day assessment and then see where that takes you...
you can also pop over to AD Hub - www.advanceddrivinghub.com - the AD forum (NB I run it, so...
) and members on there are from all backgrounds and ages and run days when they get together... it is definitely not all pull-push and string-backed driving gloves, despite some sarcastic remarks you might see on here but don't give up on the idea because one organisation has one approach to how it does it...
deadtom said:
Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm glad I am not the only one who is a little bit disillusioned with IAM, but also it does sound like I came into it with slightly the wrong idea of what it would be about.
I am being put through the course for work, so I have done very little reading about what the course is as I would have done were it my money being invested.
The instructor is very good, and is very up front about some of the more archaic aspects being just that, and I just need to suck it up for the test and, like others have said, I can take what works for me and discard what doesn't.
I am wary of coming across as holding the opinion that I am already a great driver and IAM can't teach me anything new, as this is absolutely not my feelings on the matter. I wan't to learn and become a better driver, but hopefully these things will come in time and the next session will be better.
It sounds like you are taking the fast track membership option, which is two sessions with an ADI delivering the syllabus? I am being put through the course for work, so I have done very little reading about what the course is as I would have done were it my money being invested.
The instructor is very good, and is very up front about some of the more archaic aspects being just that, and I just need to suck it up for the test and, like others have said, I can take what works for me and discard what doesn't.
I am wary of coming across as holding the opinion that I am already a great driver and IAM can't teach me anything new, as this is absolutely not my feelings on the matter. I wan't to learn and become a better driver, but hopefully these things will come in time and the next session will be better.
Did you get a handbook explaining the syllabus? There's a section on positioning which describes steering methods (page 23?). The days of "pull push everywhere" are supposed to be long gone. Maybe you could discuss this with your observer/instructor.
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