Advanced psychology

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SVS

Original Poster:

3,824 posts

278 months

Monday 22nd April 2019
quotequote all
I’m interested know what inspires extreme and irrational reactions from drivers against people on two wheels. Could there be some weird psychology at work?

Is there something about being on two wheels that, unconsciously, causes odd behaviour by car drivers? Not for the first time, RoadCC reported on a car driver attacking a cyclist. Any of us who’s cycled has encountered drivers who hurl abuse or worse.

On my motorbike, I’ve also experienced weird and deliberately dangerous behaviour from car drivers. (Despite riding systematically with appropriate roadcraft.) E.g. someone trying to sideswipe me deliberately.

I wonder if there’s some strange, unconscious reaction to people on two wheels. On two wheels, are we dehumanised?

Edited by SVS on Monday 22 April 16:08

9xxNick

1,013 posts

221 months

Monday 22nd April 2019
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In a word, yes. The separation from the other person by your steel and glass bubble distances you pschologically too.

Walt Disney had it well observed in the 1950s - Goofy Motor Mania

The other impact of driving is that it allows you the control of a powerful object, which magnifies drivers' sense of their own power and, by extension, influence. Combine this with people who perhaps have little power and influence in other aspects of their lives and you've got a toxic blend of perceived power and third parties who want to interact with you in an apparently abusive manner. The inner chimp then takes over.

Edited by 9xxNick on Monday 22 April 16:26

brisel

884 posts

215 months

Monday 22nd April 2019
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Drivers vs cyclists? Yes. A bigger chasm between them in every way. Speed differential, a sense of entitlement to space by both. Less so for motorbikes - I think the gap is less. Maybe it's just me - bikers are welcome to the roads. Most love it as much as I do.

BOR

4,840 posts

262 months

Wednesday 24th April 2019
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My favourite subject.

My theory involves two elements, and where they overlap, is when the friction occurs.

Element 1: The Hierarchy of the Food Chain

This doesn't just apply to cars vs cyclists, it affects all the road using groups:

Truck>Van>SUV>Car>Motorcycle>Bicycle>Pedestrian

An SUV is higher in the hierarchy than a car, so expects the car to defer to the larger, more expensive SUV. You have experienced that, right ?

There are also plenty of anecdotes on PH, about a guy borrowing a Fiat 500, instead of his 5-Series, and complaining about being harassed by other cars – A Fiat 500 perceived to be lower in the hierarchy than most other cars, so gets bullied.

That damn cyclist on his cheap bike deliberately slowing you from overtaking in your expensive 320d. He probably doesn’t even have a job etc.

All examples where the hierarchy is not being obeyed, where it’s not adhering to the natural order.

But why is it so important to people ?

Element 2: The Hierarchy of the Wolf-Pack

No, we aren’t wolves, but we are to a greater or lesser extent aware of our position in the pack hierarchy. When some upstart on a cheap bike filters in front of us at a traffic light, then that is a direct challenge to our status in the pack. That bike has to be overtaken at all costs, before that next set of lights 200m further on, even if it is dangerous for the cyclist. After all, they started it…

My theory is, that the more insecure you are about your life, the success of your career etc. the more likely you are to react against something trivial like the car>bike hierarchy not being obeyed. It is the only way you have to maintain/reinforce your status in the pack.

Cyclists are not even in our tribe, they are an outlier group, so it is even more important that we re-inforce our superiority over them.

So what’s the solution ?

There isn’t one. Sorry.

Rich Boy Spanner

1,510 posts

137 months

Wednesday 24th April 2019
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I see this far, far more in the UK than any other country in Europe or even the US. For some reason the British are aggressive drivers, very territorial and fight over pissy little scraps of space.

SVS

Original Poster:

3,824 posts

278 months

Wednesday 24th April 2019
quotequote all
brisel said:
Drivers vs cyclists ... a sense of entitlement to space by both.
Cycle training teaches cyclists to use more space than you’d expect. Cycling near the curb is considered unsafe. I wonder if car drivers expect cyclists to be nearer the curb.


Len Woodman

168 posts

120 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
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BOR said:
My favourite subject.

My theory involves two elements, and where they overlap, is when the friction occurs.

Element 1: The Hierarchy of the Food Chain

This doesn't just apply to cars vs cyclists, it affects all the road using groups:

Truck>Van>SUV>Car>Motorcycle>Bicycle>Pedestrian

An SUV is higher in the hierarchy than a car, so expects the car to defer to the larger, more expensive SUV. You have experienced that, right ?

There are also plenty of anecdotes on PH, about a guy borrowing a Fiat 500, instead of his 5-Series, and complaining about being harassed by other cars – A Fiat 500 perceived to be lower in the hierarchy than most other cars, so gets bullied.

That damn cyclist on his cheap bike deliberately slowing you from overtaking in your expensive 320d. He probably doesn’t even have a job etc.

All examples where the hierarchy is not being obeyed, where it’s not adhering to the natural order.

But why is it so important to people ?

Element 2: The Hierarchy of the Wolf-Pack

No, we aren’t wolves, but we are to a greater or lesser extent aware of our position in the pack hierarchy. When some upstart on a cheap bike filters in front of us at a traffic light, then that is a direct challenge to our status in the pack. That bike has to be overtaken at all costs, before that next set of lights 200m further on, even if it is dangerous for the cyclist. After all, they started it…

My theory is, that the more insecure you are about your life, the success of your career etc. the more likely you are to react against something trivial like the car>bike hierarchy not being obeyed. It is the only way you have to maintain/reinforce your status in the pack.

Cyclists are not even in our tribe, they are an outlier group, so it is even more important that we re-inforce our superiority over them.

So what’s the solution ?

There isn’t one. Sorry.
The hierarchy is also broken down in each group. As a regular cyclist across the Sydney Harbour Bridge (narrow Cycleway on the side!) some years ago I was constantly abused by the "heads down arse in the air training to be racers" often in groups because I rode slowly. I rode because I just liked the open air and riding across the harbour rather than taking a bus. I used the bike as transport just like in the Netherlands. Over a period of several years I did not once have any problems with drivers. But I was rear-ended by a rider who told me to "'effin go through" a red light, plus a few other examples.

I don't ride much now but when I do I respect other road users and don't over-react when someone else makes a mistake.

The same with pedestrians - joggers expecting other walkers to get out of their way...………...



Len Woodman

168 posts

120 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
Rich Boy Spanner said:
I see this far, far more in the UK than any other country in Europe or even the US. For some reason the British are aggressive drivers, very territorial and fight over pissy little scraps of space.
No - I disagree! Even a former French President once said, "If only the French would drive like the English!" when talking about the bad road safety record of France.