Anything I could have done to avoid this potential accident?
Discussion
Hi All,
I've been driving for 11 years now, on a mixture of all roads (A, B, Motorway, narrow country lanes).
For the first time I can ever remember, I was genuinely bricking it as I was seconds from a significant crash. I drive an R35 GT-R (so obviously protective!).
Was on M40 and i can see cars stopping for traffic ahead, so I mentally register the need to stop. I have a healthy gap to the car in front, a few car lengths. Idiot on the left lane turns into my lane and then realises he must slow down without much gap in front of him. Cue I am hard on the brakes for what feels like an ice age to get the car down to 0, with literally a few feet between me and him.
So my question is, although I didn't make any mistake, was there anything better I could have done to handle this?
Thanks
I've been driving for 11 years now, on a mixture of all roads (A, B, Motorway, narrow country lanes).
For the first time I can ever remember, I was genuinely bricking it as I was seconds from a significant crash. I drive an R35 GT-R (so obviously protective!).
Was on M40 and i can see cars stopping for traffic ahead, so I mentally register the need to stop. I have a healthy gap to the car in front, a few car lengths. Idiot on the left lane turns into my lane and then realises he must slow down without much gap in front of him. Cue I am hard on the brakes for what feels like an ice age to get the car down to 0, with literally a few feet between me and him.
So my question is, although I didn't make any mistake, was there anything better I could have done to handle this?
Thanks
Turbotechnic said:
You avoid a potential accident and no one went into you. Job done.
This, however a few car lengths, at I presume motorway speeds is not a great deal, even with great brakes. Of course it's hard to judge without dashcam, as for all we know traffic could have bunched up to 30mph.20 years ago in traffic a car overtook me on a pelicon crossing whent into the back of the car in front leaving me around 3m of space to break. So I went into the back of him. He spoke to the driver in front and they both drove off leaving me by the side of the road.
Never heard from them. The extra driving lights on my bumper took the impact and had to be replaced but otherwise no damage. I kept his bumper for a couple of weeks then dumped it.
Never heard from them. The extra driving lights on my bumper took the impact and had to be replaced but otherwise no damage. I kept his bumper for a couple of weeks then dumped it.
Pica-Pica said:
Did the other driver see you? Where you in his blind spot? Awareness of blind spots is something you learn if you have ridden a motorcycle.
Any good driver will learn about blindspots - or crash. 
Quick question to the OP though - how much quicker than the car in L1 were you travelling? It's possible that a big speed differential might have caused them to miss you between their mirrors and blind spot checks. I've had that happen to me once which was a bit scary.
Z064life said:
Was on M40 and i can see cars stopping for traffic ahead, so I mentally register the need to stop.
And, presumably, started to slow? What speeds are we talking about?Z064life said:
I have a healthy gap to the car in front, a few car lengths.
"Only a fool breaks the two second rule", right?Z064life said:
Idiot on the left lane turns into my lane
Was his lane stopping earlier than yours?davepoth said:
Pica-Pica said:
Did the other driver see you? Where you in his blind spot? Awareness of blind spots is something you learn if you have ridden a motorcycle.
Any good driver will learn about blindspots - or crash. Quick question to the OP though - how much quicker than the car in L1 were you travelling? It's possible that a big speed differential might have caused them to miss you between their mirrors and blind spot checks. I've had that happen to me once which was a bit scary.
Yeah dive bombing is a tricky one
When I drove HGVs this caused real issues. This is presuming even with the correct gap between you and the vehicle in front.
When travelling without braking, someone dive bombing its one thing - you slow down to regain a sensible gap. But with the traffic all braking this gets a little more complex and dangerous.
The conflict is the greater the gap, the more vehicles tend to dive bomb. If you and the vehicle in front are under braking conditions and someone dives in front of you then they will reactively hit the brakes to not only lose their excess speed they’ve usually generated to nip into the gap, but then they need to be braking in concert with with vehicle in front. This manifests itself normally as a vehicle diving in front then almost panic braking closely in front of you. A bit like brake checking.
You’re behind and not only is the challenge to regain a sensible gap, but you’re faced with a vehicle that has suddenly appeared in front of you and immediately starts braking a greater rate of retardation than the vehicle you originally were following. Its a double whammy. Safe gap vanished and a sudden obstacle instantly carrying out an emergency stop.
It’s nearly impossible to regain a sensible gap under braking conditions in these circumstances and the best you can do is brake to avoid an accident and hope the vehicle behind is at a sensible distance or that history is not repeating itself behind you.
Dive bombing during vehicles slowing for ques is a major reason for pileups. You often see it when traffic is slowing down on the main carriageway and there is an entry slip adjacent. It’s one reason you often see gantry signs saying “stay in lane” during congestion.
You can try and anticipate suspect vehicles with the slight wandering willies, but ultimately the larger the gap between you and the vehicle in front, the more like bees to honey people dive in. Keeping a shorter gap isn’t a safer option either. So, best of a bad situation. Sensible gap and watch either side with suspicion..
When I drove HGVs this caused real issues. This is presuming even with the correct gap between you and the vehicle in front.
When travelling without braking, someone dive bombing its one thing - you slow down to regain a sensible gap. But with the traffic all braking this gets a little more complex and dangerous.
The conflict is the greater the gap, the more vehicles tend to dive bomb. If you and the vehicle in front are under braking conditions and someone dives in front of you then they will reactively hit the brakes to not only lose their excess speed they’ve usually generated to nip into the gap, but then they need to be braking in concert with with vehicle in front. This manifests itself normally as a vehicle diving in front then almost panic braking closely in front of you. A bit like brake checking.
You’re behind and not only is the challenge to regain a sensible gap, but you’re faced with a vehicle that has suddenly appeared in front of you and immediately starts braking a greater rate of retardation than the vehicle you originally were following. Its a double whammy. Safe gap vanished and a sudden obstacle instantly carrying out an emergency stop.
It’s nearly impossible to regain a sensible gap under braking conditions in these circumstances and the best you can do is brake to avoid an accident and hope the vehicle behind is at a sensible distance or that history is not repeating itself behind you.
Dive bombing during vehicles slowing for ques is a major reason for pileups. You often see it when traffic is slowing down on the main carriageway and there is an entry slip adjacent. It’s one reason you often see gantry signs saying “stay in lane” during congestion.
You can try and anticipate suspect vehicles with the slight wandering willies, but ultimately the larger the gap between you and the vehicle in front, the more like bees to honey people dive in. Keeping a shorter gap isn’t a safer option either. So, best of a bad situation. Sensible gap and watch either side with suspicion..
simple technique when you see cars stopping ahead...
think of three zones one after the next:
zone A - cars you have spotted ahead that are stopping
zone B - area in which the following cars are reacting to the stoppage ahead
zone C - area in which cars haven't yet started to react
back off / slow down so that you can do your stopping within zone C
2 advantages:
- you are therefore not dealing with cars reacting ( in zone B) who will often pull into another lane without looking...
- you will help slow down traffic behind you, extending zone B and giving other drivers more reaction time...
how do you do it? only by extending your vision to increase observation / spot things earlier...
to do that, lift your vision so that you are looking through the higher part of your windscreen, and then use the fishing / casting technique (cast your vision out to the horizon and then bring it back towards you, repeat - so that you cover the distant view without losing track of what is around you)
most drivers on a motorway have their vision on the vehicle in front, maybe two cars ahead, by extending your vision you can increase this hugely, I measured it on the M6 the other day, vision there can be up to 1.5 miles ahead (or about a minute in the average PH car
) - gives a huge advantage...
what you did wasn't bad driving per se, but there is an opportunity to instead do good driving, and that means preparing much further ahead...
think of three zones one after the next:
zone A - cars you have spotted ahead that are stopping
zone B - area in which the following cars are reacting to the stoppage ahead
zone C - area in which cars haven't yet started to react
back off / slow down so that you can do your stopping within zone C
2 advantages:
- you are therefore not dealing with cars reacting ( in zone B) who will often pull into another lane without looking...
- you will help slow down traffic behind you, extending zone B and giving other drivers more reaction time...
how do you do it? only by extending your vision to increase observation / spot things earlier...
to do that, lift your vision so that you are looking through the higher part of your windscreen, and then use the fishing / casting technique (cast your vision out to the horizon and then bring it back towards you, repeat - so that you cover the distant view without losing track of what is around you)
most drivers on a motorway have their vision on the vehicle in front, maybe two cars ahead, by extending your vision you can increase this hugely, I measured it on the M6 the other day, vision there can be up to 1.5 miles ahead (or about a minute in the average PH car
) - gives a huge advantage...what you did wasn't bad driving per se, but there is an opportunity to instead do good driving, and that means preparing much further ahead...
One of my many cock-ups happened in similar circumstances where we were all stopping reasonably heartily and a car pulled into the gap in front of me.
None of it my fault, but on thinking it through I realised I had actually got a bit gap-complacent. I was too close and a few more car lengths would have prevented the significant sphincter-shock.
Bert
None of it my fault, but on thinking it through I realised I had actually got a bit gap-complacent. I was too close and a few more car lengths would have prevented the significant sphincter-shock.
Bert
akirk said:
simple technique when you see cars stopping ahead...
think of three zones one after the next:
zone A - cars you have spotted ahead that are stopping
zone B - area in which the following cars are reacting to the stoppage ahead
zone C - area in which cars haven't yet started to react
back off / slow down so that you can do your stopping within zone C
2 advantages:
- you are therefore not dealing with cars reacting ( in zone B) who will often pull into another lane without looking...
- you will help slow down traffic behind you, extending zone B and giving other drivers more reaction time...
.
Agree with that. If I see things ahead slowing right down, I'll brake firmly and early, down to say 40mph. It gives me much more time to see what's going to happen, and gets the people behind me slowing down in plenty of time as well (which is often a larger worry than the stopped traffic ahead).think of three zones one after the next:
zone A - cars you have spotted ahead that are stopping
zone B - area in which the following cars are reacting to the stoppage ahead
zone C - area in which cars haven't yet started to react
back off / slow down so that you can do your stopping within zone C
2 advantages:
- you are therefore not dealing with cars reacting ( in zone B) who will often pull into another lane without looking...
- you will help slow down traffic behind you, extending zone B and giving other drivers more reaction time...
.
Of course you don't always get that luxury.
akirk said:
simple technique when you see cars stopping ahead...
think of three zones one after the next:
zone A - cars you have spotted ahead that are stopping
zone B - area in which the following cars are reacting to the stoppage ahead
zone C - area in which cars haven't yet started to react
back off / slow down so that you can do your stopping within zone C
2 advantages:
- you are therefore not dealing with cars reacting ( in zone B) who will often pull into another lane without looking...
- you will help slow down traffic behind you, extending zone B and giving other drivers more reaction time...
how do you do it? only by extending your vision to increase observation / spot things earlier...
to do that, lift your vision so that you are looking through the higher part of your windscreen, and then use the fishing / casting technique (cast your vision out to the horizon and then bring it back towards you, repeat - so that you cover the distant view without losing track of what is around you)
most drivers on a motorway have their vision on the vehicle in front, maybe two cars ahead, by extending your vision you can increase this hugely, I measured it on the M6 the other day, vision there can be up to 1.5 miles ahead (or about a minute in the average PH car) - gives a huge advantage...
what you did wasn't bad driving per se, but there is an opportunity to instead do good driving, and that means preparing much further ahead...
I remember during my artic training being taught something similar. Heavy emphasis was placed on scanning back and forth up to the vanishing points and visible horizon. Granted it’s a bit easier in a high vehicle. think of three zones one after the next:
zone A - cars you have spotted ahead that are stopping
zone B - area in which the following cars are reacting to the stoppage ahead
zone C - area in which cars haven't yet started to react
back off / slow down so that you can do your stopping within zone C
2 advantages:
- you are therefore not dealing with cars reacting ( in zone B) who will often pull into another lane without looking...
- you will help slow down traffic behind you, extending zone B and giving other drivers more reaction time...
how do you do it? only by extending your vision to increase observation / spot things earlier...
to do that, lift your vision so that you are looking through the higher part of your windscreen, and then use the fishing / casting technique (cast your vision out to the horizon and then bring it back towards you, repeat - so that you cover the distant view without losing track of what is around you)
most drivers on a motorway have their vision on the vehicle in front, maybe two cars ahead, by extending your vision you can increase this hugely, I measured it on the M6 the other day, vision there can be up to 1.5 miles ahead (or about a minute in the average PH car
) - gives a huge advantage...what you did wasn't bad driving per se, but there is an opportunity to instead do good driving, and that means preparing much further ahead...
Of similar principle - It was custom and practice on lorries to read the opposing approach roads on roundabouts as far as practicable and relevant when making your own approach. Particularly when fully freighted, in order to adjust your own speed to avoid losing momentum if possible and avoid having to go up 16 gears again (before the days of autos!). I still use this in my car. Most people seem to come screaming up to the line, look then panic stop or just pull out. Bit less of an issue in a car but still helps I find.
Increasingly difficult with the tendency for local authorities to plant miniature tropical rainforests in the middle which obscure the view. This is compounded by some rouandabouts being ovalled so cars are able to achieve large velocities round them. So much so they really could do with a localised 30 mph speed limit on the actual roundabout.
Anyway, off topic!
What type of car was it that dived into your lane?
Stereotyping may upset the millennial SJWs, but on the road stereotypes very often hold true and can be very useful for determining what another driver might do next.
Then there's "body language", the road positioning of other cars, position within the lanes is a good indicator as to what they're doing before they do it.
I've usually made a mental note of the threat level of each and every car within view distance, so if a situation comes up, I have some idea of what each of them might do.
Of course if a driver has decided to take offence to something about you or your car, then they can start behaving erratically, so when behind someone look for tell tale signs like using the rear wiper to get a clearer view of you (even when it's not raining), staring at you in their mirrors, matching your road position, etc etc.....
The clues are usually all there, it just takes time and experience to know what to look for.
Stereotyping may upset the millennial SJWs, but on the road stereotypes very often hold true and can be very useful for determining what another driver might do next.
Then there's "body language", the road positioning of other cars, position within the lanes is a good indicator as to what they're doing before they do it.
I've usually made a mental note of the threat level of each and every car within view distance, so if a situation comes up, I have some idea of what each of them might do.
Of course if a driver has decided to take offence to something about you or your car, then they can start behaving erratically, so when behind someone look for tell tale signs like using the rear wiper to get a clearer view of you (even when it's not raining), staring at you in their mirrors, matching your road position, etc etc.....
The clues are usually all there, it just takes time and experience to know what to look for.
Edited by lyonspride on Friday 22 June 11:37
jimmy156 said:
Hang on...
The OP is asking how he could have avoided an accident... that he avoided?
The way to avoid this accident is to leave a big enough gap to stop in time, which you did.
You can't avoid the need to avoid an accident caused by a third party without staying at home.
:Hehe:The OP is asking how he could have avoided an accident... that he avoided?
The way to avoid this accident is to leave a big enough gap to stop in time, which you did.
You can't avoid the need to avoid an accident caused by a third party without staying at home.
Probably felt like a big thing so wanted to retail the story!
In the end the op successfully avoided an accident. Happens many many times every day. Nothing to see here!
ETA I drive a silver golf, in case it's relevant
Edited by TheBALDpuma on Saturday 23 June 15:11
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