Dipping the clutch during tight turns and pulling up
Discussion
Hi,
First time post here. Not an advanced driving question as such, more something I'd like to get the opinions of advanced drivers on.
I'm learning to drive and am approaching test standard. My driving instructor sometimes tells me to fully depress the clutch briefly when entering side roads that require a tight turn (e.g. 90 degrees!) as it stops us from being dragged around and makes things easier. I'm in second gear (never first) whilst doing this and typically doing about 15mph or less, but not slow enough for first gear. I do indeed find that it makes the turn easier, but I'm wondering if this is bad practice?
He also says to do the same thing when pulling up on the side of the road. Obviously you need to press the clutch before coming to a stop to avoid stalling, but he’s telling me to do it whilst I’m still in second gear and slowing down whilst gradually moving over to the side of the road. I change down to first whilst pulling in, but never actually engage it because the clutch is still down.
I don't want to get any faults on my test for coasting. Advice and thoughts appreciated!
First time post here. Not an advanced driving question as such, more something I'd like to get the opinions of advanced drivers on.
I'm learning to drive and am approaching test standard. My driving instructor sometimes tells me to fully depress the clutch briefly when entering side roads that require a tight turn (e.g. 90 degrees!) as it stops us from being dragged around and makes things easier. I'm in second gear (never first) whilst doing this and typically doing about 15mph or less, but not slow enough for first gear. I do indeed find that it makes the turn easier, but I'm wondering if this is bad practice?
He also says to do the same thing when pulling up on the side of the road. Obviously you need to press the clutch before coming to a stop to avoid stalling, but he’s telling me to do it whilst I’m still in second gear and slowing down whilst gradually moving over to the side of the road. I change down to first whilst pulling in, but never actually engage it because the clutch is still down.
I don't want to get any faults on my test for coasting. Advice and thoughts appreciated!
I would not disengage the clutch on a left hand side road as you describe. I would argue you have less control over the car, any car should pull round and then drive away at 10mph in 2nd Without the clutch being disengaged.
Coming to a stop? Yes come to a stop in second, as you brake, declutch (press the pedal down) just before you come to a halt. If you are stopping, then handbrake on and into neutral after you have stopped. Practice coming to a stop in second with the clutch pedal up, and find the point and which you start to stall(car begins to judder); that will give you an idea of when to press the clutch pedal down to avoid juddering and stalling.
Good luck.
Coming to a stop? Yes come to a stop in second, as you brake, declutch (press the pedal down) just before you come to a halt. If you are stopping, then handbrake on and into neutral after you have stopped. Practice coming to a stop in second with the clutch pedal up, and find the point and which you start to stall(car begins to judder); that will give you an idea of when to press the clutch pedal down to avoid juddering and stalling.
Good luck.
If the car is struggling in the gear that you’re in, change down. Most cars will need 1st gear if going slower than 10MPH. Dipping the clutch instead of changing down as you described will result in clutch faults on your test.
Your procedure for pulling up sounds fine. To take it to expert level don’t touch the gears at all whilst braking. You'll need to put the clutch down when (ideally just before) it starts to struggle. Then apply the handbrake and select neutral (and cancel your signal where necessary) after you’ve stopped.
Your procedure for pulling up sounds fine. To take it to expert level don’t touch the gears at all whilst braking. You'll need to put the clutch down when (ideally just before) it starts to struggle. Then apply the handbrake and select neutral (and cancel your signal where necessary) after you’ve stopped.
I'm going to agree with waremark, with the caveat that driving instructors sometimes advocate things to make the test easier for a novice.
When you have more skills and can manage a bit more complexity, these things may not be the best practice. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard something along the lines of 'I do it because thirty years ago my driving instructor told me to".
When you have more skills and can manage a bit more complexity, these things may not be the best practice. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard something along the lines of 'I do it because thirty years ago my driving instructor told me to".
I do take the advice of my driving instructor.
I was just curious as to whether this putting-the-clutch-down-if-turning-into-a-side-road-maybe-slightly-too-fast technique was something that other drivers ever did. Obviously the ideal is to approach the turn at the correct speed and in the correct gear and usually I do, but not always because I’m inexperienced.
It’s not that I doubt my instructor, because it does make the turn more manageable. I’ve just never seen it mentioned on any of the numerous websites or YouTube videos about learning to drive. I have no of way of knowing other than to ask.
I was just curious as to whether this putting-the-clutch-down-if-turning-into-a-side-road-maybe-slightly-too-fast technique was something that other drivers ever did. Obviously the ideal is to approach the turn at the correct speed and in the correct gear and usually I do, but not always because I’m inexperienced.
It’s not that I doubt my instructor, because it does make the turn more manageable. I’ve just never seen it mentioned on any of the numerous websites or YouTube videos about learning to drive. I have no of way of knowing other than to ask.
joelpython said:
I do take the advice of my driving instructor.
I was just curious as to whether this putting-the-clutch-down-if-turning-into-a-side-road-maybe-slightly-too-fast technique was something that other drivers ever did. Obviously the ideal is to approach the turn at the correct speed and in the correct gear and usually I do, but not always because I’m inexperienced.
It’s not that I doubt my instructor, because it does make the turn more manageable. I’ve just never seen it mentioned on any of the numerous websites or YouTube videos about learning to drive. I have no of way of knowing other than to ask.
This approach seems fine to me, it allows for the scenarios where you might meet some oncoming car and have to tighten your line or come to a stop, and it means you are less likely to be suddenly multitasking at the apex of the turn. I’d follow you instructors advice and as you get more experience it’s something that you may phase out (but still may be appropriate on some turns)I was just curious as to whether this putting-the-clutch-down-if-turning-into-a-side-road-maybe-slightly-too-fast technique was something that other drivers ever did. Obviously the ideal is to approach the turn at the correct speed and in the correct gear and usually I do, but not always because I’m inexperienced.
It’s not that I doubt my instructor, because it does make the turn more manageable. I’ve just never seen it mentioned on any of the numerous websites or YouTube videos about learning to drive. I have no of way of knowing other than to ask.
I'd hazard a guess that it's because you are going slow enough that you should really be in first, but changing down to first smoothly is usually quite hard in most cars. So he's telling you to dip the clutch as a half way house, as you get smoother and a bit quicker, it'll just stop being a problem.
I am also an ADI, and I am with William !
If you "coast" around corners your examiner will/may notice, he will not say anything....until you have switched off your engine at the end of the test and may mention it in your debrief.
Do it more than 3 times, it becomes a persistent "minor fault" and the 4th time you get a sweet little mark in the "S" box. and fail.
It is poor driving practice, and potentially dangerous as you would not be able to use "engine braking to help slow you down as the gear box is disconnected from the engine, you are therefore "coasting" not "driving" around the bend. In some situations it may even be a "serious" fault in it's own right and be a serious fault straight off.
I would suggest it is poor teaching technique to allow a student/novice driver to do this, and then coach him/her out of it later.....they often will struggle to do so.
Give yourself plenty of time and space to check your mirrors, signal, position the car, then slow down to the desired speed for the bend/corner, then select gear for the speed/bend, then get OFF the clutch before you start turning, and "drive" around it. In many cases a tiny bit of gas as your turning helps with the balance and stability of the car. It will feel "right" when you do it properly.
If you can't see around the corner that well owing to parked cars etc.... then slow down until you can....you should always be able to stop on your side of the road in the distance that is clear in front of you.....so that might be going around in 1st gear......creeping and peeping! This also helps in some bends/corners that are about 90 degrees
When a pupil of mine "coasts" around a corner they hear me growling, I then ask them why I was, and they nearly always answer "I coasted around the corner." Then when asked why they did they nearly always reply "Because I was going to fast."
On faster corners/bends try to remember
"Slow in....fast out....fast in....s
t out!"
On pulling over like already suggested stay in the gear you are in, brake then dip clutch in to prevent the stall, keep both hands on the wheel until stationary, then "secure" the car.
What is the point in "going down through the gears?....answer no point, it causes extra work, serves no useful purpose, you are taking longer to stop, and extra wear and tear on the vehicle......it is something us old timers were taught to do in the olden days when brakes were crap, and we used engine braking to help slow us down......it's not wrong, just not the modern way.....Modern day cars have great brakes...use them
"Use your gears to GO, and your brakes to SLOW"
I would only suggest going into 1st gear on pulling over if you had to manoeuvre into a tight space, but loose the speed first....you will not be asked to do that on a test on a road, maybe only to go into a bay nose in
Just a thought.....has your driving instructor got a pink badge on display or a light green one in his windscreen?
Ask your instructor questions, get him to answer them, you pay a shed load of money for his services, make him earn it!
good luck
If you "coast" around corners your examiner will/may notice, he will not say anything....until you have switched off your engine at the end of the test and may mention it in your debrief.
Do it more than 3 times, it becomes a persistent "minor fault" and the 4th time you get a sweet little mark in the "S" box. and fail.
It is poor driving practice, and potentially dangerous as you would not be able to use "engine braking to help slow you down as the gear box is disconnected from the engine, you are therefore "coasting" not "driving" around the bend. In some situations it may even be a "serious" fault in it's own right and be a serious fault straight off.
I would suggest it is poor teaching technique to allow a student/novice driver to do this, and then coach him/her out of it later.....they often will struggle to do so.
Give yourself plenty of time and space to check your mirrors, signal, position the car, then slow down to the desired speed for the bend/corner, then select gear for the speed/bend, then get OFF the clutch before you start turning, and "drive" around it. In many cases a tiny bit of gas as your turning helps with the balance and stability of the car. It will feel "right" when you do it properly.
If you can't see around the corner that well owing to parked cars etc.... then slow down until you can....you should always be able to stop on your side of the road in the distance that is clear in front of you.....so that might be going around in 1st gear......creeping and peeping! This also helps in some bends/corners that are about 90 degrees
When a pupil of mine "coasts" around a corner they hear me growling, I then ask them why I was, and they nearly always answer "I coasted around the corner." Then when asked why they did they nearly always reply "Because I was going to fast."
On faster corners/bends try to remember
"Slow in....fast out....fast in....s
t out!"On pulling over like already suggested stay in the gear you are in, brake then dip clutch in to prevent the stall, keep both hands on the wheel until stationary, then "secure" the car.
What is the point in "going down through the gears?....answer no point, it causes extra work, serves no useful purpose, you are taking longer to stop, and extra wear and tear on the vehicle......it is something us old timers were taught to do in the olden days when brakes were crap, and we used engine braking to help slow us down......it's not wrong, just not the modern way.....Modern day cars have great brakes...use them
"Use your gears to GO, and your brakes to SLOW"
I would only suggest going into 1st gear on pulling over if you had to manoeuvre into a tight space, but loose the speed first....you will not be asked to do that on a test on a road, maybe only to go into a bay nose in
Just a thought.....has your driving instructor got a pink badge on display or a light green one in his windscreen?
Ask your instructor questions, get him to answer them, you pay a shed load of money for his services, make him earn it!
good luck
Edited by watchnut on Tuesday 15th May 17:45
A car has gears, an accelerator and brakes. There is no need to dip the clutch if you can use the other three. Obviously the clutch should be used for it's purpose, which is to assist changing gear.
I've seen numerous driving instructors of late doing it wrong imo. I think standards have dropped but then, they're a younger breed then my instructor.
I've seen numerous driving instructors of late doing it wrong imo. I think standards have dropped but then, they're a younger breed then my instructor.
watchnut said:
What is the point in "going down through the gears?....answer no point, it causes extra work, serves no useful purpose, you are taking longer to stop, and extra wear and tear on the vehicle......it is something us old timers were taught to do in the olden days when brakes were crap, and we used engine braking to help slow us down......it's not wrong, just not the modern way.....Modern day cars have great brakes...use them
Fuel economy, modern fuel injected engines burn virtually ZERO fuel under engine braking conditions, the injectors literally stop. It might not be very much, but over the course of a few hundred miles you'd see a small saving. On the other hand it may increase stresses on the gearbox and these days a gearbox is rather expensive to replace.Personally though, I just do whatever seems right at the time.
I still think you should go with your own instructor who is in the car with you and sees the exact circumstances. However, I will give the advanced view. Is it safe, is the car under control, is it smooth? If so, it's ok. All those can be satisfied doing it the way your instructor recommends.
I wonder why you are arriving at the junction in 2nd. Most often you would arrive at the junction in a higher gear, put the clutch down before the engine begins to struggle, change into the gear you will want to use for pulling away from the junction, and let the clutch out when you are at your slowest speed and want to pick up the drive. I would not expect to use first if you don't want to slow below 10 mph.
I wonder why you are arriving at the junction in 2nd. Most often you would arrive at the junction in a higher gear, put the clutch down before the engine begins to struggle, change into the gear you will want to use for pulling away from the junction, and let the clutch out when you are at your slowest speed and want to pick up the drive. I would not expect to use first if you don't want to slow below 10 mph.
Unless you have other reasons to doubt your instructor's competence, go with their advice for now, and make your mind up later. There are some grey areas in driving and this is one. Some here have put forward a rather puristic view, as they are entitled to. But driving tests tend increasingly to be assessed in a more broad minded way. It's unlikely you will fail a test for doing what you describe provided the speed and direction of the car is appropriate and you appear in control. We are talking about low speeds here, probably 10mph or less - at higher speeds coasting is less acceptable.
OP, if you have a doubt use it as a trigger to self learn.
If you can gain access to a similar car, a suitably experienced/licenced passenger and a car park, challenge what you have been told.
Pull away normally and change up to 2nd and accelerate up to 15 mph. take your foot off the accelerator and let the car coast down so the engine is idling. At this speed, try manoeuvring around the car park, Try applying more accelerator to see how the car picks up and learn how the car responds whilst being driven at low speed in 2nd gear.
I fear, like many instructors, you are being told how to pass a test, not being taught how to drive.
If you can gain access to a similar car, a suitably experienced/licenced passenger and a car park, challenge what you have been told.
Pull away normally and change up to 2nd and accelerate up to 15 mph. take your foot off the accelerator and let the car coast down so the engine is idling. At this speed, try manoeuvring around the car park, Try applying more accelerator to see how the car picks up and learn how the car responds whilst being driven at low speed in 2nd gear.
I fear, like many instructors, you are being told how to pass a test, not being taught how to drive.
I passed my test just over 3 years ago.
Your instructor sounds similar to mine, she taught me things what I definitely wouldn't do now such as dipping the clutch as you've mentioned and holding the car on the biting point at traffic lights.
Have you done your theory test yet? There's a common question that comes up that asks in which situation you have most control of the vehicle slowing down. You're given 3 options, in neutral, coasting in gear using the clutch, and in gear. The correct answer for the test is in gear.
If I was you I'd go with what your instructor tells you for now. Mine explained to me that she has students going for tests on a weekly basis, so she knows what they're looking for. The real learning starts once you pass.
Your instructor sounds similar to mine, she taught me things what I definitely wouldn't do now such as dipping the clutch as you've mentioned and holding the car on the biting point at traffic lights.
Have you done your theory test yet? There's a common question that comes up that asks in which situation you have most control of the vehicle slowing down. You're given 3 options, in neutral, coasting in gear using the clutch, and in gear. The correct answer for the test is in gear.
If I was you I'd go with what your instructor tells you for now. Mine explained to me that she has students going for tests on a weekly basis, so she knows what they're looking for. The real learning starts once you pass.
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