Am I wrong in doing this?

[vantara]

Hi all, I passed my RoSPA advanced driving last year, along with Advanced defensive and Close Protection driving.
Since then I seem to spend most of my time on 2 lane dual carriageways or motorways and often practice aspects of advanced driving whilst doing this.
This includes keeping to the left of the lane I am in whilst on a right hand bend for the first 75% (ish) of the corner before straightening up etc, the opposite applies to left hand bends of course.
Am I wrong in doing this and should I just keep to the centre of the lane I’m in? I hasten to add that I only do this when it is relatively quiet, I wouldn’t do it on the M25 at rush hour!

[johnao]

vantara said:

Hi all, I passed my RoSPA advanced driving last year, along with Advanced defensive and Close Protection driving.
Since then I seem to spend most of my time on 2 lane dual carriageways or motorways and often practice aspects of advanced driving whilst doing this.
This includes keeping to the left of the lane I am in whilst on a right hand bend for the first 75% (ish) of the corner before straightening up etc, the opposite applies to left hand bends of course.
Am I wrong in doing this and should I just keep to the centre of the lane I’m in? I hasten to add that I only do this when it is relatively quiet, I wouldn’t do it on the M25 at rush hour!

If it's safe, legal, gives you an advantage and doesn't inconvenience or confuse other road users... then just do it.

In the case in point, I would argue that positioning in the way you describe will result in extending, or maintaining, the view that you already have, which thereby gains you an advantage.

[Pica-Pica]

johnao said:

vantara said:

Hi all, I passed my RoSPA advanced driving last year, along with Advanced defensive and Close Protection driving.
Since then I seem to spend most of my time on 2 lane dual carriageways or motorways and often practice aspects of advanced driving whilst doing this.
This includes keeping to the left of the lane I am in whilst on a right hand bend for the first 75% (ish) of the corner before straightening up etc, the opposite applies to left hand bends of course.
Am I wrong in doing this and should I just keep to the centre of the lane I’m in? I hasten to add that I only do this when it is relatively quiet, I wouldn’t do it on the M25 at rush hour!

If it's safe, legal, gives you an advantage and doesn't inconvenience or confuse other road users... then just do it.

In the case in point, I would argue that positioning in the way you describe will result in extending, or maintaining, the view that you already have, which thereby gains you an advantage.

A wide track, and the risk of noise when running over cat’s eyes or white lines, or running over detritus near the gutter, keeps me more or less in the centre of each lane. Also, road surface, potholes, drain covers, etc tend to dictate positioning more!

Now on single lane, narrow, back lanes, it is a distinct advantage to get a better view of, and more importantly, to give a better view to oncoming road users (horses, cyclists, pedestrians especially)

[vantara]

Pica-Pica said:

A wide track, and the risk of noise when running over cat’s eyes or white lines, or running over detritus near the gutter, keeps me more or less in the centre of each lane. Also, road surface, potholes, drain covers, etc tend to dictate positioning more!

Now on single lane, narrow, back lanes, it is a distinct advantage to get a better view of, and more importantly, to give a better view to oncoming road users (horses, cyclists, pedestrians especially)

I’m not that far to the edge of the lane that I hit cats eyes or rumble strips, I drive 100k miles a year so know the width of my car, and have found that a large percentage of potholes and road surface degradation is actually where the majority of vehicles tyres would be (especially on the A27) so by not using the typical line I actually end up avoiding a lot of ‘obstacles’.
Sadly I also occasionally do commentary drives if on my own

[DocSteve]

Is this a question or a self congratulatory post?

I'm blunt but even if not intended by the OP it comes across like that.

Adjusting position within or across lanes is perfectly acceptable when it will optimise vision without compromising safety.

[Strudul]

I don't bother on a DC / Mway, but on other roads i often drive almost completely on the opposite side of the road to maximise visibility.

[SVS]

I too don’t bother on motorways and most dual carriageways. Very occasionally I find it’s beneficial on a dual carriageway, e.g. to maximise a view that would otherwise be limited or to position away from a vehicle at a junction/crossroads.

Positioning to avoid potholes or a degraded road surface seems like a no brainer.

[anonymous-user]

If safe and when cracking on then I also do this on most roads. I take up similar positions on slow single lane roads.

[M666 EVO]

You keep left in a right hand bend? Why? I never understood that - I did a few hours with IAM and didn't understand why you wouldn't take the racing line, as long as visibility was OK etc

Surely if you stay right in a left hand bend you run the risk of having a head on with someone slightly over there lane coming the opposite way at speed? Happy to be educated.

[wwpaddler]

How on earth do you do 100K per year? That's truck mileage - would have thought the extra height would give you all the extra visibility you need without wobbing around in your lane. Sight lines are normally so good on dual carriageways and motorways that I'm struggling to see any benefit to your tactics - completely understand them on single carriageway roads.

[Strudul]

M666 EVO said:

You keep left in a right hand bend? Why? I never understood that - I did a few hours with IAM and didn't understand why you wouldn't take the racing line, as long as visibility was OK etc

Surely if you stay right in a left hand bend you run the risk of having a head on with someone slightly over there lane coming the opposite way at speed? Happy to be educated.

If you have sufficient vis, then it doesn't matter, but 90% of non-DC / Mway corners have hedgerows or buildings etc making the corner blind.

Keeping right on a blind left hander reduces the risk of collision as you can see / be seen sooner, and if something is coming you can quickly get back into lane or brake if needs be.

[SVS]

wwpaddler said:

How on earth do you do 100K per year?

It's on his profile: he's a chauffeur.

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

M666 EVO said:

You keep left in a right hand bend? Why? I never understood that - I did a few hours with IAM and didn't understand why you wouldn't take the racing line, as long as visibility was OK etc

1: Safety - on a RH bend, a LH position puts you further away from oncoming traffic

2: Stability - a wider radius round the outside = a less sharp turn

3: View - assuming you can't see through the bend, you'll get a longer sightline from the left side of the road than if you're towards the centre

If visibility is good though the bend and beyond (and you're not going to confuse / affect any other road user) then it/s OK to take a different line.

One other caveat though - if you're using the straighter line to go faster than you otherwise could, what happens if something appears and you need to get off that line? Straightening bends on the road is usually done to increase stability and smoothness.

M666 EVO said:

Surely if you stay right in a left hand bend you run the risk of having a head on with someone slightly over there lane coming the opposite way at speed? Happy to be educated.

I'm with you on this one. The idea that if something slightly in your lane suddenly appears then it's always possible to react in time doesn't fit with my experience. Much better to be out of the way in the first place.

On a left hand bend I'll be anywhere from fully offside to fully nearside, depending entirely on how far through the bend I can see.

[vantara]

I’m definitely not self congratulating! As a relatively recently qualified advanced driver i was hoping for replies from the more experienced and was just concerned how it would be perceived by other road users if seen to be “wandering” in your lane.

And yes I am a chauffeur so do lots and lots of miles!

[Dr Jekyll]

M666 EVO said:

You keep left in a right hand bend? Why? I never understood that - I did a few hours with IAM and didn't understand why you wouldn't take the racing line, as long as visibility was OK etc

If the visibility is OK then fine, but on most SCs the lack of visibility is the hazard.

M666 EVO said:

Surely if you stay right in a left hand bend you run the risk of having a head on with someone slightly over there lane coming the opposite way at speed? Happy to be educated.

The point is not to stay over to the right. It's that when considering the optimum position you take into account that the further to the left you go the worse the view, so you don't go any further left than you need to stay out of the way of oncoming traffic. So entering a blind left hander on a narrow road in a left position may be sensible. If the road isn't too narrow and you have some visibility to start with then going right up to the centreline may be OK. If you can see well enough to be sure there is no oncoming traffic but can't see your own lane, improving the view further by using the other side of the road is OK.

A couple of caveats.
If oncoming traffic does appear when you are offsiding they might think you are in the process of crashing and go right to avoid you at the same moment you go left. Just sticking half the car over the centre line should avoid this, although it's why I rarely offside on a bike.
Also, IAM and I believe ROSPA officially don't approve of offsiding, I think because they don't want someone offsiding inappropriately then saying 'I was told to do this'. Examiners tend to be a bit more relaxed about it.

[akirk]

reasons for moving within or out of your lane are:
- to overtake
- to add to your visibility
- to protect against collision with someone not taking the bend the other way terribly well
- straight-lining, (but should only be done in a situation where visibility doesn't degrade as a result...)

overtaking is not an issue on a dual carriageway
adding to your visibility is probably not the primary reason on a dual carriageway
straight-lining is fine, but as its purpose is to maintain stability and speed, it shouldn't really be needed on a dual carriageway as the roads are generally built to allow speed around the corners (unless you are doing silly speeds)
altering within your lane again gives no strong extra visibility, and there is no need to protect against someone coming the other way...

so, I am not sure why you would wish to move within or cut across lanes on a dual carriageway...

so, fine if not affecting anyone else, and being used as practice for single carriageway (if the roads are empty a dual carriageway gives a very safe practice ground pretending that the two lanes are opposing lanes on a single carriageway), but otherwise, I see no real reason for doing it...

[johnao]

akirk said:

so, I am not sure why you would wish to move within or cut across lanes on a dual carriageway...

To extend one's vision where appropriate.

To move the car to a place of safety (lane 2) when approaching an occupied or partly concealed layby (laybys on A10 dual carriageway northbound and southbound just north of Puckeridge come to mind).

[akirk]

johnao said:

akirk said:

so, I am not sure why you would wish to move within or cut across lanes on a dual carriageway...

To extend one's vision where appropriate.

To move the car to a place of safety (lane 2) when approaching an occupied or partly concealed layby (laybys on A10 dual carriageway northbound and southbound just north of Puckeridge come to mind).

you do it on a single carriageway to extend vision onto / along the other carriageway
on a dual carriage way, the need / way you do it is different...

moving across to the other lane is absolutely fine and makes sense, but continually moving within the lane / straight-lining a dual carriageway's bends is (I would argue) slightly strange

on a single carriageway you will partially use the opposite carriageway because you are balancing:
- extending vision (you move out)
- not being too exposed on the opposite side of the road (you don't move too far)
on a dual carriageway, that specific need for caution re safety is not an issue, so if vision is needed move into lane 2 otherwise stay in lane 1

I suspect that the police seeing someone moving around in a lane / shifting partially across lanes would probably stop them and breathalyse them!

[DocSteve]

vantara said:

I’m definitely not self congratulating! As a relatively recently qualified advanced driver i was hoping for replies from the more experienced and was just concerned how it would be perceived by other road users if seen to be “wandering” in your lane.

And yes I am a chauffeur so do lots and lots of miles!

Hi, apologies if I offended you and I see you are asking a genuine question.

I understand the points made by others that within the legal speed limit on D/Cs, vision and grip level are usually sufficient such that it is not necessary. However, I do think that in some circumstances it can still be useful but in order to avoid attracting unwarranted attention from other road users (and in your case, passengers) it should be limited to those. Moving within lanes with adjacent vehicles present (if that is included in your suggestion) should definitely be avoided as third party perception could lead to pre-emptive evasive action which could cause an accident or at least road rage.

Steve

[Strudul]

akirk said:

I suspect that the police seeing someone moving around in a lane / shifting partially across lanes would probably stop them and breathalyse them!

I straight-lined every single corner of a road with a police car following right behind me out of sheer boredom and laziness.

The road in question is a 30, but is completely empty with perfect vis and everyone does at least 50 because it's completely safe and silly not to (plus there's no signs, so most people assume it's 50), but I thought doing almost double the speed limit with a cop on my arse might be taking the piss.