Turning right at box junction.
Discussion
Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
That is the rule however the phrase "or by other vehicles waiting to turn right" - are these "other vehicles" travelling in the same direction as you OR are they travelling towards you Or possibly both?
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
That is the rule however the phrase "or by other vehicles waiting to turn right" - are these "other vehicles" travelling in the same direction as you OR are they travelling towards you Or possibly both?
Chapter 5 of the traffic signs manual states:
12.2 Drivers entering the box when their exit is obstructed by stationary vehicles, whether in the road ahead or to either side, commit an offence. It is permissible, however, to enter and become stationary if turning right and prevented from leaving the junction only by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to complete the right turn.
The highlighted "the" suggests that the reference to right turning vehicles relates to those vehicles travelling in the same direction, rather than opposing right-turning vehicles.
12.2 Drivers entering the box when their exit is obstructed by stationary vehicles, whether in the road ahead or to either side, commit an offence. It is permissible, however, to enter and become stationary if turning right and prevented from leaving the junction only by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to complete the right turn.
The highlighted "the" suggests that the reference to right turning vehicles relates to those vehicles travelling in the same direction, rather than opposing right-turning vehicles.
whether you turn in front of each other, or behind - in theory (though undoubtedly not in practice), a vehicle turning across you / doing the opposing right-turn should not be holding you up...
if they are they come under 'oncoming traffic' anyway, so are still a valid reason for you to be in the box junction
but that part of the statement is referring to the car in front of you (assuming a big enough box junction)
basically - as long as your exit is clear so that once all other traffic moves on and the lights change you have somewhere to go and don't block the junction then you are okay...
if they are they come under 'oncoming traffic' anyway, so are still a valid reason for you to be in the box junction
but that part of the statement is referring to the car in front of you (assuming a big enough box junction)
basically - as long as your exit is clear so that once all other traffic moves on and the lights change you have somewhere to go and don't block the junction then you are okay...
Resurrection...
What if one or more of the oncoming cars turn to their left (ie into the road you are waiting to turn right into).
When you entered the box, there was space on the road to your right for you to turn into and clear the box. The one or more oncoming cars which have decided to turn left have, however, now occupied this space.
What now? And how do the rules apply in this scenario?
What if one or more of the oncoming cars turn to their left (ie into the road you are waiting to turn right into).
When you entered the box, there was space on the road to your right for you to turn into and clear the box. The one or more oncoming cars which have decided to turn left have, however, now occupied this space.
What now? And how do the rules apply in this scenario?
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