Priory at crossroads

[mawallace]

What the rules re crossroads and priority? I know that if I am at the junction / give way signs I am supposed to give way to traffic on the main road, but what about where one vehicle is looking to turn right out of the minor road while the person the other side is looking to go straight over. Do you wait for the car that's tuning right before you go, or do you go first. what if you are both coming from the 'minor roads' and looking to turn right - who has the property then.

[Vipers]

Common sense and curtesy always work, I usually give the other driver a hand gesture to let them know I am letting them go first.

Sorted.

[Green1man]

On unmarked crossroads no one has priority, so assume idiots in other cars and proceed accordingly.

In general though if you are turning accross a cars path (car opposite coming straight accross and you turning right) you should give way to that car. If both turning right then you could both go and go around each other or (ideally) go in front of each other

[brrapp]

The one going straight on (or turning left) has priority over the one turning right. If both are turning right, I was taught (38years ago) that they should pass each other and turn after passing the other car. Not sure if that's still the case as I've not seen anyone do that for a while.

[Green1man]

brrapp said:

I was taught (38years ago) that they should pass each other and turn after passing the other car. Not sure if that's still the case as I've not seen anyone do that for a while.

Well 35 years ago I was taught to turn in front of each other if possible, this way if there is a queue of traffic in both directions you can both just go rather than end up both blocking each other.

[akirk]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using...

Highway Code 181
allows for both, turning in front, or behind...
but considers behind better for observation of other oncoming traffic (consider a motor bike coming up behind the opposite car and turning to its left)

more of an issue if you are both on the major road, but applies to side roads as well...

[Vipers]

akirk said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using...

Highway Code 181
allows for both, turning in front, or behind...
but considers behind better for observation of other oncoming traffic (consider a motor bike coming up behind the opposite car and turning to its left)

more of an issue if you are both on the major road, but applies to side roads as well...

Answers one of the questions, doesn't address where one car is turning and one is going over, but as I said earlier, common sense and curtesy should prevail.

Similiar situation at work, our exit is opposite to an exit from a hospital car park, (maybe offset by two metres), , I am turning left, and they are turning right, I always give them a hand signal to let them go first, easy.

Not the same as crossing the junction I know but a situation where common sense should precaile.

Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 17th April 10:26

[akirk]

Vipers said:

akirk said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using...

Highway Code 181
allows for both, turning in front, or behind...
but considers behind better for observation of other oncoming traffic (consider a motor bike coming up behind the opposite car and turning to its left)

more of an issue if you are both on the major road, but applies to side roads as well...

Answers one of the questions, doesn't address where one car is turning and one is going over, but as I said earlier, common sense and curtesy should prevail.

Similiar situation at work, our exit is opposite to an exit from a hospital car park, (maybe offset by two metres), , I am turning left, and they are turning right, I always give them a hand signal to let them go first, easy.

Not the same as crossing the junction I know but a situation where common sense should precaile.

Doesn't need to - that is easy - the person going straight over has priority if close enough - the other is crossing their space...

Highway Code 180 said:

Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle.

[Vipers]

akirk said:

Vipers said:

akirk said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using...

Highway Code 181
allows for both, turning in front, or behind...
but considers behind better for observation of other oncoming traffic (consider a motor bike coming up behind the opposite car and turning to its left)

more of an issue if you are both on the major road, but applies to side roads as well...

Answers one of the questions, doesn't address where one car is turning and one is going over, but as I said earlier, common sense and curtesy should prevail.

Similiar situation at work, our exit is opposite to an exit from a hospital car park, (maybe offset by two metres), , I am turning left, and they are turning right, I always give them a hand signal to let them go first, easy.

Not the same as crossing the junction I know but a situation where common sense should precaile.

Doesn't need to - that is easy - the person going straight over has priority if close enough - the other is crossing their space...

Highway Code 180 said:

Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle.

I have read iit again, and have no idea where you are coming from, apart from showing how two cars are both turning, doesnt mention if one is going straight over. I think the question asked is what if you both arrive at the junction at the same time, who has the right of way, that's how I read the question, rule 181 doesn't address that situation.

That's why I said common sense.

[akirk]

Vipers said:

akirk said:

Vipers said:

akirk said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using...

Highway Code 181
allows for both, turning in front, or behind...
but considers behind better for observation of other oncoming traffic (consider a motor bike coming up behind the opposite car and turning to its left)

more of an issue if you are both on the major road, but applies to side roads as well...

Answers one of the questions, doesn't address where one car is turning and one is going over, but as I said earlier, common sense and curtesy should prevail.

Similiar situation at work, our exit is opposite to an exit from a hospital car park, (maybe offset by two metres), , I am turning left, and they are turning right, I always give them a hand signal to let them go first, easy.

Not the same as crossing the junction I know but a situation where common sense should precaile.

Doesn't need to - that is easy - the person going straight over has priority if close enough - the other is crossing their space...

Highway Code 180 said:

Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle.

I have read iit again, and have no idea where you are coming from, apart from showing how two cars are both turning, doesnt mention if one is going straight over. I think the question asked is what if you both arrive at the junction at the same time, who has the right of way, that's how I read the question, rule 181 doesn't address that situation.

That's why I said common sense.

read the bit I quoted above from Rule 180 (under the turning right section)
if you are turning right, you must wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming traffic
that includes a situation where you and the oncoming traffic both approach a cross-roads
- if you see a car approaching, but there is a safe gap, then go
- if they pause to let you through, then that is a safe gap, go
- if you are both stationary and decide to go - then that is not a safe gap (you would hit them), so wait

you are right, it is common sense and also about civility - but it is also very clearly laid out in the Highway Code:
Rule 180 if one is turning, and one going straight on
Rule 181 if both are turning across each other
other Rules may apply for other scenarios

[Vipers]

akirk said:

you are right, it is common sense and also about civility - but it is also very clearly laid out in the Highway Code

Rule 180 if one is turning, and one going straight on

Rule 181 if both are turning across each other
other Rules may apply for other scenarios

I have read rule 180 but its based on a T junction, the original question asked was -

one vehicle is looking to turn right out of the minor road while the person the other side is looking to go straight over. Do you wait for the car that's tuning right before you go, or do you go first. what if you are both coming from the 'minor roads'

I would just gesture the guy turning right to go before me, any way no worries. Rules can't cover every aspect can they, mind you they can be interpreted differently.

[akirk]

Vipers said:

I have read rule 180 but its based on a T junction, the original question asked was -

one vehicle is looking to turn right out of the minor road while the person the other side is looking to go straight over. Do you wait for the car that's tuning right before you go, or do you go first. what if you are both coming from the 'minor roads'

I would just gesture the guy turning right to go before me, any way no worries. Rules can't cover every aspect can they, mind you they can be interpreted differently.

no - the example in the illustration is a t-junction, but rule 180 comes under simply the heading of 'Turning Right'
the Highway Code doesn't give every example - you are expected to take the generic concepts / rules and use them...

the rules really are very very simple - the person turning, gives way to the one not turning a fact that I think that most drivers would instinctively understand... note - these sections of the Highway Code are not based on traffic laws (if they are then they are quoted and the word Must will appear) - so they are not mandatory to the extent that if the opposite happened you would not be prosecuted for the turning car having gone first, however were there to be a crash, then it would be very clear that the turning car had not allowed a safe gap to oncoming traffic, so could be held liable...

courtesy is not an issue - however, I think you are over-complicating things, and in AD you need to also consider whether your courtesy to someone else is not understood by another road user / pedestrian etc. who might be expecting the Highway Code to be followed... so, if a pedestrian is crossing based on the assumption that you will continue straight over and block the turning car - and then you wave the turning car across who is focused on you and hits the pedestrian... who holds liability - pedestrian for the assumption / not looking - the driver, for hitting the pedestrian - you for enabling it all... possibly all three...

it is best and simplest to stick to the Highway Code...

[Vipers]

akirk said:

courtesy is not an issue - however, I think you are over-complicating things, and in AD you need to also consider whether your courtesy to someone else is not understood by another road user / pedestrian etc. who might be expecting the Highway Code to be followed... so, if a pedestrian is crossing based on the assumption that you will continue straight over and block the turning car - and then you wave the turning car across who is focused on you and hits the pedestrian... who holds liability - pedestrian for the assumption / not looking - the driver, for hitting the pedestrian - you for enabling it all... possibly all three...

it is best and simplest to stick to the Highway Code...

Bit in bold, can't be simpler, it's just letting a driver know he can make his manouevour first. It's not complicated. Bearing in mind an awful lot of drivers on our roads have little knowledge of the HC, I like to play safe and make it simple for them, and safe for me.

I understand what else you are saying about peds etc, but I am only referring to the question raised.

Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 17th April 14:00

Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 17th April 14:01

[akirk]

Vipers said:

I understand what else you are saying about peds etc, but I am only referring to the question raised.

Fair point...
in answer to the OP's question - the Highway Code says you give way to the car going straight across unless you have a clear gap...
beyond that - drive well, drive courteously and do as you wish - it is not mandatory in the HC - but the HC can and will be used against drivers who do something different in the event of a crash...

[Vipers]

akirk said:

Vipers said:

I understand what else you are saying about peds etc, but I am only referring to the question raised.

Fair point...
in answer to the OP's question - the Highway Code says you give way to the car going straight across unless you have a clear gap...
beyond that - drive well, drive courteously and do as you wish - it is not mandatory in the HC - but the HC can and will be used against drivers who do something different in the event of a crash...

Agree.

[akirk]

Vipers said:

Agree.

you can't - this is PH

[Vipers]

akirk said:

Vipers said:

Agree.

you can't - this is PH

As my mate said to our boss in the navy, a commander, "If I called you a would you put me on a charge"

He said "Yes"

My mate said "But I can think it". (Only joking in reference to your comments of course, but it reminded me of the conversation.

So yes, "Agree".

Let me get back to the HC. .

Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 17th April 19:18