Priority on roundabouts

[brrapp]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 26 April 2018 at 09:04

[gothatway]

Not sure why you expect that you're going to cross paths (unless you're turning right or he's indicating right), but even so surely a vehicle doesn't have right of way over other traffic joining the roundabout until he is actually on the roundabout.
Nevertheless, when I'm in my tractor (with a load or not), I always assume that every other road user is an absolute idiot whose worst nightmare is being behind a tractor for five seconds. In your case, if I'm not holding up traffic behind me, and I'm sure that giving way won't result in me being stuck for ages while other traffic crosses in front of me, I'd probably sit and wait for the other guy to get out of the way.

[akirk]

lots of drivers assume that they have right of way - generally in the UK you have priority and that means that first person on a bit of road gets dibs over it - with caveats etc.

so in your scenario - car's job to slow down a bit and if necessary pause...

[Pica-Pica]

This is the bit where legality, rights, and Highway Code, give way to consideration, courtesy and a bit of tolerance. There have been many times I have been on a roundabout and a truck or bus pulls on to it. There are degrees of their intrusion and degrees of irritation, from anger down to just acceptance. Similarly, I have been on a bus, which has entered a roundabout, and a car has flown round, and the driver has got hot and bothered and you think, WTF. I have often wondered what would happen if a driver got out and had a go at a bus driver, only for a bus-load of burly chaps to get off and confront the car driver. It is all about give and take.

[Pica-Pica]

brrapp said:

Pica-Pica said:

This is the bit where legality, rights, and Highway Code, give way to consideration, courtesy and a bit of tolerance. It is all about give and take.

Forgive me for cropping your post but this is exactly what I was hoping to hear/see when I asked the question on the Advanced Driving sub-forum. Too many posts these days quote the law or the Highway Code forgetting that we should all be striving to be 'better' drivers whenever we can.

Indeed. People quote the Highway Code details, but forget the introduction “It is important that all road users are aware of The Highway Code and are considerate towards each other.“

[cmaguire]

Faster road users should expect to accommodate slower road users.
However, considerate behaviour works both ways.

[cmaguire]

brrapp said:

Pretty sure I know the answer to this as I'm often looking at this from both sides, driving big slow vehicles some times and 'making progress' on a bike or fast car at others, but just thought I'd ask for others' opinions.
You arrive at a roundabout in a tractor and trailer, you can see there is nothing on the roundabout yet but there is a car approaching the opposite side of the roundabout from you fairly quickly. If you carry on and he carries on at the same speed, you'll both enter the roundabout at the same time, but he'll have to slow considerably or stop on the roundabout to avoid hitting you before you get very far round in your trundling leviathan.
Who should do what?

You are not responsible for how fast they are going.
I am happy to cut trucks, tractors etc a lot of slack, I appreciate how slow they get up to speed and how slow they lose speed, and therefore how important it is for them to maintain speed.
It's the cars that piss me off.

[R0G]

OP - if you can see that entering the roundabout will cause another to change speed or direction then do not enter it

If you did that on a DVSA test you would fail

[cmaguire]

R0G said:

OP - if you can see that entering the roundabout will cause another to change speed or direction then do not enter it

If you did that on a DVSA test you would fail

Good in theory, rubbish in practice if you drive a truck, tractor, bus or anything else slow off the mark.
I'm not suggesting just pulling out on other vehicles as a matter of routine, but the speed some cars or bikes travel around roundabouts is such that a slow moving vehicle may be waiting to enter a roundabout for ages.
I've got zero interest in being stuck in a prolonged queue behind that hesitant truck because he is concerned about causing cars on the roundabout that are travelling faster than expected to brake slightly. I sling it around roundabouts myself, and I expect to have to brake to accommodate those entering on occasion because it isn't reasonable to expect them to expect me.

Just don't do it on your DVSA test then.

[simoid]

gothatway said:

Not sure why you expect that you're going to cross paths (unless you're turning right or he's indicating right), but even so surely a vehicle doesn't have right of way over other traffic joining the roundabout until he is actually on the roundabout.
Nevertheless, when I'm in my tractor (with a load or not), I always assume that every other road user is an absolute idiot whose worst nightmare is being behind a tractor for five seconds. In your case, if I'm not holding up traffic behind me, and I'm sure that giving way won't result in me being stuck for ages while other traffic crosses in front of me, I'd probably sit and wait for the other guy to get out of the way.

Not how I read the advice. If I’m waiting at a give way line, and someone is approaching my 3 o’clock entrance, I shouldn’t be pulling out as they have priority/“right of way”.

185
When reaching the roundabout you should

give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights

[coffeebreath]

The person approaching the roundabout has to slow down, prepare to give away, anticipate others slowing down, therefore adjust their speed to the situation. Anything other than this is anti-social and a breach of highway code at best. I do it all the time, and routinely have to brake for someone who is pulling off into the roundabout at 5mph while I am bombing through at 30. I consider myself in the wrong before them. There is obviously a line here that becomes blurred given each cars trajectory in each instance.

[henrycrun]

It's the aggressive motorists who approach an empty roundabout at speed and expect priority, that are the problem.
A roundabout is a hazard, expect the unexpected.

Time for a rewrite of the HC.?

[R0G]

cmaguire said:

R0G said:

OP - if you can see that entering the roundabout will cause another to change speed or direction then do not enter it

If you did that on a DVSA test you would fail

Good in theory, rubbish in practice if you drive a truck, tractor, bus or anything else slow off the mark.
I'm not suggesting just pulling out on other vehicles as a matter of routine, but the speed some cars or bikes travel around roundabouts is such that a slow moving vehicle may be waiting to enter a roundabout for ages.
I've got zero interest in being stuck in a prolonged queue behind that hesitant truck because he is concerned about causing cars on the roundabout that are travelling faster than expected to brake slightly. I sling it around roundabouts myself, and I expect to have to brake to accommodate those entering on occasion because it isn't reasonable to expect them to expect me.

Just don't do it on your DVSA test then.

There does come a point on a DVSA test where the examiner might say - pull out when you will only cause another to ease off

[simoid]

henrycrun said:

It's the aggressive motorists who approach an empty roundabout at speed and expect priority, that are the problem.
A roundabout is a hazard, expect the unexpected.

Time for a rewrite of the HC.?

Does “be able to stop in the distance you can reasonably expect to be clear” count? If you can see it’s a clear roundabout it’s ok. But if you’re barrelling up to a RAB with partially sighted entrances it’s a different story.

[lyonspride]

cmaguire said:

Faster road users should expect to accommodate slower road users.
However, considerate behaviour works both ways.

Yeah, but unfortunately in most situations these days, drivers try to create a problem where there wasn't one.

You pull out half mile in front, they speed up and glue themselves to your rear bumper.

Your coming around a roundabout (not unlike the scenario described in OP) at a speed they don't like or in a car they don't like or making more noise than they like, they pull out and slow down to hold you up.

In short, most "non-car people" are c**ts.......

[cylinderfin]

Surely you only give way to him if he is already to your right?
If he has only just entered the roundabout directly opposite your direction there is now reason to give way., and besides you're in a tractor so he can't argue!

[HarryW]

The only problem I've encountered is on mini roundabouts. Specifically where what was a main road with a tee junction becoming a mini roundabout. Those on the old main road think they have right of way from 50 yards back from the give way lines from those emerging from the old minor road and speed across tooting their horn at anyone who dares enter the roundabout and impedes their 40mph across it as if it wasn't there...

[FiF]

All the above criticisms relating to folks approaching mini roundabouts at speed, especially those involving poorly sighted entrances, are absolutely on the money. I am more concerned about making safe and unobtrusive progress than getting irritated by them though.

Anyway one bit where I sometimes feel a bit guilty, don't know why, is when established on one island and approaching from my left is a heavy where the driver is having to make a fairly sharp stop to give way. Clearly he would have good sight lines on approach, see nothing on the island, and is probably planning to go, not that well prepared to stop, when I come out of his 3 o clock entrance and now he has to anchor up sharply. I can't find a solution to this so having ensured he is stopping carry on.

One thing that does grate with me on this island, I'm taking the third exit, going from 6 to 3, so positioned next to the island. It's when vehicles enter the island from the 9 o clock entrance and sit alongside or on your rear quarter preventing you moving over into lane 1 on exit. Most times a significant positive speed increase gets clear ahead seeing as many drivers don't know that the gas pedal has more than a millimetre of movement. Occasionally you get some arse who guns it up the inside and undertakes, I just let them go, but quietly hope they are over the limit and into the clutches of the camera van just over the brow.