Queueing for motorway exit on hard shoulder
Discussion
I drove a new route at rush hour this morning and encountered something I've not really come across before.
I was driving on the M11 northbound to take the exit at J13 (A1303/A428). As I approached the junction (probably about 1 mile - 0.5 mile before) there was a queue of traffic on the hard shoulder. I continued in the left hand lane, gradually reducing my speed as I approached the slip road. At the dashed markings for the slip road drivers seemed reluctant to let me in and the driver behind in L1 used their horn.
From my understanding of the highway code you must not drive on the hard shoulder unless in an emergency (or directed by Police, signs etc.). At the junction in question there is no signage so it seems that the many drivers using the hard shoulder are all in breach of the highway code.
It seems to me like there's a sheep mentality; drivers almost blindly following other drivers' actions even if they may not be right.
Although using the LH lane up to the slip road seems to be technically/legally correct it puts you at risk of being rear ended. Queuing with everyone else on the hard shoulder may be morally correct but is contrary to the Highway Code.
Aside from finding a different route, travelling at a different time or junction improvements - what's the advanced driving viewpoint on this?
I was driving on the M11 northbound to take the exit at J13 (A1303/A428). As I approached the junction (probably about 1 mile - 0.5 mile before) there was a queue of traffic on the hard shoulder. I continued in the left hand lane, gradually reducing my speed as I approached the slip road. At the dashed markings for the slip road drivers seemed reluctant to let me in and the driver behind in L1 used their horn.
From my understanding of the highway code you must not drive on the hard shoulder unless in an emergency (or directed by Police, signs etc.). At the junction in question there is no signage so it seems that the many drivers using the hard shoulder are all in breach of the highway code.
It seems to me like there's a sheep mentality; drivers almost blindly following other drivers' actions even if they may not be right.
Although using the LH lane up to the slip road seems to be technically/legally correct it puts you at risk of being rear ended. Queuing with everyone else on the hard shoulder may be morally correct but is contrary to the Highway Code.
Aside from finding a different route, travelling at a different time or junction improvements - what's the advanced driving viewpoint on this?
Sometimes it's safer to break the rules and do what's safest. If it was me I'd join the queue on the hard shoulder and hate every second of it. Rather that than be rear ended in a live lane whilst trying to merge at the slip road.
If ever you're the last car in the queue on a fast road stop a long way back from the car in front and keep a good look out for those approaching from behind unable to stop. Leaving space in front gives you an escape route if needed.
If ever you're the last car in the queue on a fast road stop a long way back from the car in front and keep a good look out for those approaching from behind unable to stop. Leaving space in front gives you an escape route if needed.
This is a common occurrence around that section of the M11, and no, it's not a smart motorway (to the poster above). When I read the thread title, I guessed it would be M11 related.
I've encountered the same numerous times southbound at the Addenbrooke's Hospital junction (12, I think). It's something I hadn't come across before but having done this route since 2016, it is very common there at peak times. I've been through the same thought process as you, OP.
Heading left into Cambridge was always busiest. Even though that's the way I go, I have tended to stay on the motorway until the junction and then got in the right hand lane of the slip road. I then either move over if a gap appears and sometimes hear the annoyance of others, or, if there is no gap, I circuit the roundabout, which doesn't really queue jump as that is often queuing too! But these two options seem preferable to sitting quite far down the hard shoulder.
Doesn't work at the junction you refer to, as there's no roundabout heading that way. It's frustrating and dangerous for those caught unawares who are then sometimes deliberately blocked out by the queuing traffic.
I've encountered the same numerous times southbound at the Addenbrooke's Hospital junction (12, I think). It's something I hadn't come across before but having done this route since 2016, it is very common there at peak times. I've been through the same thought process as you, OP.
Heading left into Cambridge was always busiest. Even though that's the way I go, I have tended to stay on the motorway until the junction and then got in the right hand lane of the slip road. I then either move over if a gap appears and sometimes hear the annoyance of others, or, if there is no gap, I circuit the roundabout, which doesn't really queue jump as that is often queuing too! But these two options seem preferable to sitting quite far down the hard shoulder.
Doesn't work at the junction you refer to, as there's no roundabout heading that way. It's frustrating and dangerous for those caught unawares who are then sometimes deliberately blocked out by the queuing traffic.
I think you're taking the optimal course of action. I'd be cautious with my speed: indicating and showing brake lights as early as feasible, but not slowing down to the speed of the hard shoulder traffic. Perhaps midway between queue speed and the traffic continuing on the motorway so that speed differentials are minimised.
Make it as clear as possible that you wish to take the exit, but do not wish to partake in any illegal nonsense queuing system.
Make it as clear as possible that you wish to take the exit, but do not wish to partake in any illegal nonsense queuing system.
thought i'd reopen this, as it happened to me this morning... M40 southbound, J11 at banbury. turns out J12 was closed, so all the usual JLR traffic was going down to 11, and turning round.
what are you supposed to do, exactly? i thought as i approached the hill, that traffic was bad, and then, 2 miles before the junction, theres a queue on the hard shoulder, which i've now missed the start of. so my options now are cut into the queue midway down (and risk being rear ended by a lorry in L1 if i cant merge successfully) or drive down to the actual slip road and try and exit there (again, risking being rear ended by a lorry if i can't merge successfully)
really not sure what you're supposed to do here, just seems an incredibly dangerous situation.
in the end i opted for cutting into the queue midway down, since a gap appeared.
the only thing i could think to do to help was leave a big gap in front of me while i'm queuing, so other people who missed the start of the queue and were now praying for a gap could slot in relatively safely.
I know people say 'people are idiots for queuing on the hard shoulder' but when it happens to you, and your alternative is stopping dead in lane 1, i'm not sure what alternative there is?
what are you supposed to do, exactly? i thought as i approached the hill, that traffic was bad, and then, 2 miles before the junction, theres a queue on the hard shoulder, which i've now missed the start of. so my options now are cut into the queue midway down (and risk being rear ended by a lorry in L1 if i cant merge successfully) or drive down to the actual slip road and try and exit there (again, risking being rear ended by a lorry if i can't merge successfully)
really not sure what you're supposed to do here, just seems an incredibly dangerous situation.
in the end i opted for cutting into the queue midway down, since a gap appeared.
the only thing i could think to do to help was leave a big gap in front of me while i'm queuing, so other people who missed the start of the queue and were now praying for a gap could slot in relatively safely.
I know people say 'people are idiots for queuing on the hard shoulder' but when it happens to you, and your alternative is stopping dead in lane 1, i'm not sure what alternative there is?
brillomaster said:
thought i'd reopen this, as it happened to me this morning... M40 southbound, J11 at banbury. turns out J12 was closed, so all the usual JLR traffic was going down to 11, and turning round.
what are you supposed to do, exactly? i thought as i approached the hill, that traffic was bad, and then, 2 miles before the junction, theres a queue on the hard shoulder, which i've now missed the start of. so my options now are cut into the queue midway down (and risk being rear ended by a lorry in L1 if i cant merge successfully) or drive down to the actual slip road and try and exit there (again, risking being rear ended by a lorry if i can't merge successfully)
really not sure what you're supposed to do here, just seems an incredibly dangerous situation.
in the end i opted for cutting into the queue midway down, since a gap appeared.
the only thing i could think to do to help was leave a big gap in front of me while i'm queuing, so other people who missed the start of the queue and were now praying for a gap could slot in relatively safely.
I know people say 'people are idiots for queuing on the hard shoulder' but when it happens to you, and your alternative is stopping dead in lane 1, i'm not sure what alternative there is?
I've resorted to skipping my intended junction and continuing down the carriageway before. what are you supposed to do, exactly? i thought as i approached the hill, that traffic was bad, and then, 2 miles before the junction, theres a queue on the hard shoulder, which i've now missed the start of. so my options now are cut into the queue midway down (and risk being rear ended by a lorry in L1 if i cant merge successfully) or drive down to the actual slip road and try and exit there (again, risking being rear ended by a lorry if i can't merge successfully)
really not sure what you're supposed to do here, just seems an incredibly dangerous situation.
in the end i opted for cutting into the queue midway down, since a gap appeared.
the only thing i could think to do to help was leave a big gap in front of me while i'm queuing, so other people who missed the start of the queue and were now praying for a gap could slot in relatively safely.
I know people say 'people are idiots for queuing on the hard shoulder' but when it happens to you, and your alternative is stopping dead in lane 1, i'm not sure what alternative there is?
Meant that I had to find an alternative route but I had the kids in the back and I felt that the risk of being rear-ended was too high.
Used to be a daily occurrence on the M4 / M32 junction many years ago when I commuted that way daily, queueing on the hard shoulder was by far the safest thing to do as it meant live lane traffic could run at normal speed, those people who decided not to join the queue and tried to cut in at the last second invariably had an artic bearing down on them and many's the time they had to carry on and miss the junction.
Most of this is probably down to an incident making a junction far busier than normal.
But I also think there is now a general misunderstanding of hard shoulder importance due to smart motorways, people have become blurred as to their importance as for certain times they use the road they might always use the hard shoulder as a lane and never use it otherwise, thereby making it a live lane in their eyes.
As for cutting in, it is a very dangerous thing to do and I have massive sympathy, I sued to experience it on the A1M near Potters Bar most mornings but the slip raid was about a mile long yet people would slow down to 50 about a mile before it, making the queue closer and it just seems silly, but I guess you get used to the morning drain train.
But I also think there is now a general misunderstanding of hard shoulder importance due to smart motorways, people have become blurred as to their importance as for certain times they use the road they might always use the hard shoulder as a lane and never use it otherwise, thereby making it a live lane in their eyes.
As for cutting in, it is a very dangerous thing to do and I have massive sympathy, I sued to experience it on the A1M near Potters Bar most mornings but the slip raid was about a mile long yet people would slow down to 50 about a mile before it, making the queue closer and it just seems silly, but I guess you get used to the morning drain train.
I saw this happening within the last week somewhere, can't for the life of me remember where but it wasn't the M11.
I went out to L2 and stayed there until clear of the queue; the speed differential between stationary traffic and motorway traffic is sufficient enough in my view to be a safety concern if you were to continue along in L1 without a buffer zone. Especially given the high likelihood of some traffic trying to either pull out from the queue to skip ahead and rejoin, or just other drivers missing the end of the queue and slowing down in a live lane because they're adamant they need to get off at that particular exit.
Personally I don't do it, if I see there's some huge queue for half a mile along the hard shoulder, I'll just pass and leave at the next exit instead. I don't want to be mucking about in a free-for-all on a hard shoulder with motorway traffic passing at 70+. I'd honestly rather a slightly longer journey than deal with that potential mess.
I went out to L2 and stayed there until clear of the queue; the speed differential between stationary traffic and motorway traffic is sufficient enough in my view to be a safety concern if you were to continue along in L1 without a buffer zone. Especially given the high likelihood of some traffic trying to either pull out from the queue to skip ahead and rejoin, or just other drivers missing the end of the queue and slowing down in a live lane because they're adamant they need to get off at that particular exit.
Personally I don't do it, if I see there's some huge queue for half a mile along the hard shoulder, I'll just pass and leave at the next exit instead. I don't want to be mucking about in a free-for-all on a hard shoulder with motorway traffic passing at 70+. I'd honestly rather a slightly longer journey than deal with that potential mess.
Happens all the time on the A465 North bound at Nant Garw (which has a full hard shoulder).
I don't think cutting in at the last opportunity is optimal. Not only is that dependent on space being provided but also a good chance you'll come to a sudden stop in Lane 1 if not prepared to miss the junction entirely.
Police and all sorts are aware of people queueing on the hard shoulder. They don't start issuing fines.
I don't think cutting in at the last opportunity is optimal. Not only is that dependent on space being provided but also a good chance you'll come to a sudden stop in Lane 1 if not prepared to miss the junction entirely.
Police and all sorts are aware of people queueing on the hard shoulder. They don't start issuing fines.
This happens to me on a few mornings each week on the M74.
There is a junction which comes off the motorway then splits into 3 lanes, you can turn left in the left/middle lane, but the right lane is a right turn only.. and it is sometimes very busy which then leads to the backup onto the live motorway lane 1.
I'm on a motorbike, I don't really care what the law is, there is no way I'm going to sit stationery on a fast moving motorway so I slowly ride up the hard shoulder and onto the (clear) left/middle lane of the slip road.
Haven't had anyone try to follow me in a car/van/truck.. nor anyone try to block me.
Would I ride by a police car sitting in lane 1.. yeah, I would.. as I say it's more of a safety concern for me with cars/vans/heavy goods vehicles flying by me in Lane 2 when I'm sitting on a bike...
There is a junction which comes off the motorway then splits into 3 lanes, you can turn left in the left/middle lane, but the right lane is a right turn only.. and it is sometimes very busy which then leads to the backup onto the live motorway lane 1.
I'm on a motorbike, I don't really care what the law is, there is no way I'm going to sit stationery on a fast moving motorway so I slowly ride up the hard shoulder and onto the (clear) left/middle lane of the slip road.
Haven't had anyone try to follow me in a car/van/truck.. nor anyone try to block me.
Would I ride by a police car sitting in lane 1.. yeah, I would.. as I say it's more of a safety concern for me with cars/vans/heavy goods vehicles flying by me in Lane 2 when I'm sitting on a bike...
This happens quite regularly on the A470 exiting North from Cardiff. I can understand why people do use the hard shoulder as its preferable to being left with your tail hanging in L1 with fast moving traffic approaching. Eventually the person behind them don't want to be the road block in L1 either waiting for a rear end collision and so on and so forth.
It's the safest option when faced with having to block a fast flowing lane and it does aid the flow of ongoing traffic.
Personally, I would like to see smart motorway systems added to all these bottle neck junctions where this is common, it will save lives and keep traffic flowing.
It's the safest option when faced with having to block a fast flowing lane and it does aid the flow of ongoing traffic.
Personally, I would like to see smart motorway systems added to all these bottle neck junctions where this is common, it will save lives and keep traffic flowing.
CoolHands said:
Sounds idiotic but I’d just try to exit into the slip road as normal, not go onto the hard shoulder. Maybe report to police as none of those people should be using the hard shoulder - they could sit there for a few mornings to retrain people.
How do you propose the police retrain hundreds of drivers on the carriageway with 70mph traffic in Lane 1?What you're proposing is equally idiotic if you intend to dive into a gap or brake sharply in Lane 1.
CoolHands said:
I think you’ll find few tickets will quickly have the desired retraining effect.
And you are suggesting me exiting the motorway properly is idiotic?
How are they going to issue tickets in moving traffic?And you are suggesting me exiting the motorway properly is idiotic?
In a way, yes. How do you intend to merge from a live lane with flowing unimpeded traffic doing 50-70mph into a static lane doing 5mph nose to tail?
Would you stop suddenly in Lane 1? Would you travel at circa 20mph in an otherwise unimpeded lane 1?
I'm interested how you'd do it.
I agree with everyone saying it's not to the highway code and it's less than ideal. But some of us have seen it as a daily occurrence and it is the safest solution.
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