Yellow Box of Peril
Discussion
Picked the car up from Service. Driving back I ended up caught in a Yellow Box. Furthermore due to thinking about my mistake I was close to stopping on a crossing which I thought I missed the light for. Thinking about it the lights were controlled by the main junction. Still not good to get caught out.
Quite embarrassing as I consider myself a competent driver.
I am familiar with the Junction but I rarely drive it. I wasn't concentrating as I should have been. Watching back the footage I'm wondering what I could have done better?
Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/nzllShQJvvM
Quite embarrassing as I consider myself a competent driver.
I am familiar with the Junction but I rarely drive it. I wasn't concentrating as I should have been. Watching back the footage I'm wondering what I could have done better?
Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/nzllShQJvvM
Edited by Rick101 on Thursday 16th November 12:14
I don't see how you could have done any better however much you were concentrating - from where you enter the yellow box you cannot yet see whether the exit is clear. I cannot remember seeing a box junction used like that.
However, on this occasion I don't think you were on the wrong side of the law - you didn't stop moving, and as I understand it an offence is only committed if you come to a complete stop on the yellow box. If I am wrong no-one someone with more certain knowledge will correct me.
However, on this occasion I don't think you were on the wrong side of the law - you didn't stop moving, and as I understand it an offence is only committed if you come to a complete stop on the yellow box. If I am wrong no-one someone with more certain knowledge will correct me.
waremark said:
I don't see how you could have done any better however much you were concentrating - from where you enter the yellow box you cannot yet see whether the exit is clear. I cannot remember seeing a box junction used like that.
However, on this occasion I don't think you were on the wrong side of the law - you didn't stop moving, and as I understand it an offence is only committed if you come to a complete stop on the yellow box. If I am wrong no-one someone with more certain knowledge will correct me.
I'm pretty sure there must be some threshold. "I was moving a few nanometers per second, honest guv" However, on this occasion I don't think you were on the wrong side of the law - you didn't stop moving, and as I understand it an offence is only committed if you come to a complete stop on the yellow box. If I am wrong no-one someone with more certain knowledge will correct me.
On a more serious note, mess of a junction, and it was impossible to see that it was clear. It might be the case that the box is there to stop people stopping on the junction trying to go straight across, hence I don't think the OP's actions were in contradiction of the concept.
Dashcam Warrior app won''t upload to Youtube today for some reason.
You''ll have to made do with a few phone screenshots.
This is the vehicle stop line. This is where I would be really making my decision to go or not. There is a risk that you move forwards, don't enter the box due to a risk of fine but end up stopped over the pedestrian crossing when they get a green man. (Not sure if Puffin crossings will give 'walk' if vehicles are stopped??)
This is forward of the vehicle stop line but behind the cycle stop line. A fractionally better view, not clear if the exit is blocked.
This is the first instant I get a view of a clear exit. I am right over the pedestrian crossing. It's is not clear how much room the van has in front of him. No brake lights coming on, but in all honestly you don't have time to sit and gauge his deceleration rate.
On reflection, and a 2nd attempt, yes, it's a crap junction and you will probably end up in the yellow box.
With regard to the question of stopping. The example I gave earlier was correct, what I hadn't realised was that, that was the only situation it applied to.
Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Two things to note from the DVLA image. The blue Focus in the wait position, is waiting behind the stop line and has not moved up to the yellow box.
Secondly it shows a tipper wagon stopped over a crossing with nowhere to go. Not sure that's encouraged. One to check.
Here endeth the lesson
You''ll have to made do with a few phone screenshots.
This is the vehicle stop line. This is where I would be really making my decision to go or not. There is a risk that you move forwards, don't enter the box due to a risk of fine but end up stopped over the pedestrian crossing when they get a green man. (Not sure if Puffin crossings will give 'walk' if vehicles are stopped??)
This is forward of the vehicle stop line but behind the cycle stop line. A fractionally better view, not clear if the exit is blocked.
This is the first instant I get a view of a clear exit. I am right over the pedestrian crossing. It's is not clear how much room the van has in front of him. No brake lights coming on, but in all honestly you don't have time to sit and gauge his deceleration rate.
On reflection, and a 2nd attempt, yes, it's a crap junction and you will probably end up in the yellow box.
With regard to the question of stopping. The example I gave earlier was correct, what I hadn't realised was that, that was the only situation it applied to.
Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Two things to note from the DVLA image. The blue Focus in the wait position, is waiting behind the stop line and has not moved up to the yellow box.
Secondly it shows a tipper wagon stopped over a crossing with nowhere to go. Not sure that's encouraged. One to check.
Here endeth the lesson
Edited by Rick101 on Friday 17th November 10:57
Rick101 said:
Rule 192
In queuing traffic, you should keep the crossing clear.
Did you watch the video? Since the box went round the corner you couldn't see whether it was clear at the time you had to decide whether to enter it. More or less.In queuing traffic, you should keep the crossing clear.
PS Sorry, I now realise who posted this.
Edited by waremark on Friday 17th November 16:49
You didn't have any reason to stop at the crossing as far as I can see and by stopping there you trap whoever is following you.
As far as I recall the LA is only allowed to paint box junctions in a rectangular shape although it may be possible to get special permission in some circumstances so I'm going to guess this one is not enforceable.
As far as I recall the LA is only allowed to paint box junctions in a rectangular shape although it may be possible to get special permission in some circumstances so I'm going to guess this one is not enforceable.
waremark said:
I don't see how you could have done any better however much you were concentrating - from where you enter the yellow box you cannot yet see whether the exit is clear.
Yes, you can. Watch the video from 0:09 onwards - the Mokka's brake lights come on before the Aygo even enters the box.When the Aygo's just about fully in the box, and the camera car still hasn't even crossed the line, the Mokka's already slowing right down.
By the time the camera car enters the box, the Mokka's just about stationary right on the box exit, and the Aygo's damn near stopped.
The driver of the camera car is clearly just watching the back of the car in front, no further than that. All the clues are there.
All comments welcome.
I am the first to look inward when something has gone wrong and freely admit a lack of concentration on the first attempt.
I made a point of doing it again today to see if it could be done better and whilst you are able to sit and watch the footage to fractions of a second, there are lots of other things to account for in real driving.
It is right on the 9 sec I have it paused, I am at the stop line (at speed) and I do concur the brake lights come on in that 9 sec window.
Consider though I'm in a large and heavy old Volvo with a slushbox. My camera does not record speed but I have certainly got the vehicle moving and would be unlikley to come to a nice smooth controlled stop as you are supposed to do in AD. I could of course have slammed on at the stop line but I would probably end up the recipient of a rear shunt.
I am of course also checking for pedestrians, cycles on both side and other traffic at the same time.
Whilst I appreciate the view and comments, I don't think stopping is workable.
I am the first to look inward when something has gone wrong and freely admit a lack of concentration on the first attempt.
I made a point of doing it again today to see if it could be done better and whilst you are able to sit and watch the footage to fractions of a second, there are lots of other things to account for in real driving.
It is right on the 9 sec I have it paused, I am at the stop line (at speed) and I do concur the brake lights come on in that 9 sec window.
Consider though I'm in a large and heavy old Volvo with a slushbox. My camera does not record speed but I have certainly got the vehicle moving and would be unlikley to come to a nice smooth controlled stop as you are supposed to do in AD. I could of course have slammed on at the stop line but I would probably end up the recipient of a rear shunt.
I am of course also checking for pedestrians, cycles on both side and other traffic at the same time.
Whilst I appreciate the view and comments, I don't think stopping is workable.
Rick101 said:
All comments welcome.
I am the first to look inward when something has gone wrong and freely admit a lack of concentration on the first attempt.
I made a point of doing it again today to see if it could be done better and whilst you are able to sit and watch the footage to fractions of a second, there are lots of other things to account for in real driving.
It is right on the 9 sec I have it paused, I am at the stop line (at speed) and I do concur the brake lights come on in that 9 sec window.
Consider though I'm in a large and heavy old Volvo with a slushbox. My camera does not record speed but I have certainly got the vehicle moving and would be unlikley to come to a nice smooth controlled stop as you are supposed to do in AD. I could of course have slammed on at the stop line but I would probably end up the recipient of a rear shunt.
I am of course also checking for pedestrians, cycles on both side and other traffic at the same time.
Whilst I appreciate the view and comments, I don't think stopping is workable.
You seem to think you have to be able to stop before the first stop line? I am the first to look inward when something has gone wrong and freely admit a lack of concentration on the first attempt.
I made a point of doing it again today to see if it could be done better and whilst you are able to sit and watch the footage to fractions of a second, there are lots of other things to account for in real driving.
It is right on the 9 sec I have it paused, I am at the stop line (at speed) and I do concur the brake lights come on in that 9 sec window.
Consider though I'm in a large and heavy old Volvo with a slushbox. My camera does not record speed but I have certainly got the vehicle moving and would be unlikley to come to a nice smooth controlled stop as you are supposed to do in AD. I could of course have slammed on at the stop line but I would probably end up the recipient of a rear shunt.
I am of course also checking for pedestrians, cycles on both side and other traffic at the same time.
Whilst I appreciate the view and comments, I don't think stopping is workable.
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