Driving test fail - unfair?

[DuckDuck]

Someone I know just failed their driving test, 3 minor issues, one major. I think the reason for the fail is very harsh to say the least. So what do you think?

Here is the view just before the roundabout

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.1248928,-3.95674...


Here is the view close to the roundabout
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.1247175,-3.95592...

Here is the view just on the roundabout

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.1246435,-3.95518...

My friend was on the other side of the road heading away from the camera and taking the second exit on the left, just beyond straight on.

She failed on not being in the correct position.


So how would you approach this and what position would you take on the roundabout to leave at the second exit. Please note that there are no marked lanes before or on the roundabout.

Cheers

[Solocle]

It looks like there is a faded lane divider. Going straight ahead, it's the last exit, so I'd be in the outside lane. Because there's not much signage, good observations are required through the r'bout.

[DuckDuck]

Solocle said:

It looks like there is a faded lane divider. Going straight ahead, it's the last exit, so I'd be in the outside lane. Because there's not much signage, good observations are required through the r'bout.

No lane divider at all, went back to check. In fact, from the previous roundabout all the way to the one in question there is no lane divider. It's a wide lane though.

[andyf1140]

I think that for straight on it's the left lane so on a roundabout like that I would keep to the left.

[Solocle]

http://www.learners-guide.co.uk/lessons/roundabout...
Is of the opinion that you should take a right-hand position.

Rule 186 is ambiguous. It says an "exit to the right" takes a right signal and right position. However, this exit is neither "to the right" nor an "intermediate" exit. So I would drop thr right signal - that'll make people thing you're looping.

Edited by Solocle on Thursday 13th July 12:21

[InitialDave]

I'd probably keep more to the right on approach, to allow those taking the left exit more room.

But I might choose to position myself more centrally if there was no one else coming up behind me.

I wouldn't regard it as an at all good example of a roundabout where positioning is a major issue. Any position that doesn't impede other traffic is fine in my opinion.

If it had a clear line in the road dividing it into two lanes, I'd say definitely the right one. But it looks like it doesn't, and never has.

[JimbobVFR]

Solocle said:

It looks like there is a faded lane divider. Going straight ahead, it's the last exit, so I'd be in the outside lane. Because there's not much signage, good observations are required through the r'bout.

Agreed, 2 exits and 2 lanes, seems quite straightforward.
I'm guessing your friend used the left lane for the fail?

[Solocle]

InitialDave said:

I'd probably keep more to the right on approach, to allow those taking the left exit more room.

But I might choose to position myself more centrally if there was no one else coming up behind me.

I wouldn't regard it as an at all good example of a roundabout where positioning is a major issue. Any position that doesn't impede other traffic is fine in my opinion.

If it had a clear line in the road dividing it into two lanes, I'd say definitely the right one. But it looks like it doesn't, and never has.

Going really into detail, it does look like there is a a ridge in the tarmac encouraging the left lane to take the first exit. Being Scotland, I think the rain has emphasized the effect on google maps.
Probably the safest position is to impede traffic so that they can't get into your blind-spot!

[InitialDave]

Solocle said:

Probably the safest position is to impede traffic so that they can't get into your blind-spot!

Oh, yes, positioning to prevent someone coming past is definitely on the cards if felt necessary, but I didn't mention it because I thought it'd start an argument!

[Zetec-S]

I'd be in the right hand "lane", but work on the assumption someone is going to lurk in your blind spot or try and pass you on the left.

[Toltec]

Zetec-S said:

I'd be in the right hand "lane", but work on the assumption someone is going to lurk in your blind spot or try and pass you on the left.

Agreed, I think you'd want to be central or to the right of the lane as if you were to the left a driver behind would probably assume you were going left and try to pass you.

Safest position for an inexperienced driver is probably central.

Badly designed really, it should have maked left and straight on lanes or painted hatched areas to show it is a single lane entrance while still wide enough for large vehicles.

[RacerMike]

I'd say middle to right hand side positioning with an indicator on to the right to make it clear. Assuming your friend was in the left hand lane?

[DuckDuck]

Thanks everyone.

Yes, positioned left and received a fail!! Tester added that there was someone, on the right, trying to squeeze through, friend said that they didn't see anyone; maybe in the blind spot.

Highway code rule 186 is clear in so far that this was technically a right exit even though it's almost straight ahead! The first exit was on the left. I would tend to agree that taking the middle position means that you restrict anyone coming up the side. The last sign leading up to the roundabout, I think is, incorrect as it doesn't show any left exit.



Still think this was a bit harsh

[Zetec-S]

I was taught that if the lanes were unmarked you'd pick a lane based on the position of the exits on the sign. Left lane for anything up to and including 12 o'clock. Right lane for anything after 12 o'clock.

[Orillion]

DuckDuck said:

She failed on not being in the correct position.

Which box on the examiner's marking sheet contained the serious fault?

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

DuckDuck said:

...there was someone, on the right, trying to squeeze through, friend said that they didn't see anyone; maybe in the blind spot.

That sounds like a major error to me...

[Solocle]

The sign doesn't show another exit... of course, why is it a r'bout then? But, if you have Chutzpah you could send a demand for the test fee to the authority responsible for the signage!

[johnao]

DuckDuck said:

Thanks everyone.

Yes, positioned left and received a fail!! Tester added that there was someone, on the right, trying to squeeze through, friend said that they didn't see anyone; maybe in the blind spot.

...

I suspect it wasn't lane positioning per se that caused her to fail. I would think it was failing to observe and anticipate the actions of the vehicle that was approaching from behind, which was positioning to the right to take the second exit and which was receiving mixed and misleading messages from the test candidate in front. This caused the vehicle behind to try and "squeeze" through with the result that the candidate didn't properly deal with the situation.

The candidate should have observed the vehicle approaching from behind, taken note of its position to the right of the lane and then moved right herself to ensure that the follower remained behind. From an examiner's point of view it's easier to say... "you were in the wrong lane", which she was, given the circumstances, rather than the fuller, more nuanced explanation.

For the candidate to say in this situation that she didn't see anyone because they were probably in her blind spot is nothing more than digging herself the biggest hole ever.

[Mandat]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

DuckDuck said:

...there was someone, on the right, trying to squeeze through, friend said that they didn't see anyone; maybe in the blind spot.

That sounds like a major error to me...

Lane positioning aside, not seeing someone squeezing up the side, particular on a roundabout is a serious failing in observation, and IMHO is deserving of a major fault / fail on its own.

[BoRED S2upid]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

DuckDuck said:

...there was someone, on the right, trying to squeeze through, friend said that they didn't see anyone; maybe in the blind spot.

That sounds like a major error to me...

That combined with the left hand lane would have been the fail. If the other driver wasn't there it would be a harsh fail. If she was positioned correctly indicating right they wouldn't be able to come down the right of her.