BGOl

[AlexH89]

Hi everyone.

New member here. I'm looking for some advice regarding brake gear overlap. I just can't seem to get comfortable with it as I need much more space to brake so I can get off the brakes in time to avoid overlapping. It seems to be much slower than changing down while braking because of the extra distance required.

Does anyone have any tips? Also is it really a necessity with synchro-mesh gearboxes? I'm interested in improving my driving using advanced driving techniques but don't intend to pursue any formal qualifications.

Many thanks

Alex

[Reg Local]

I made a video about BGOL last year which should answer some of your questions:

https://youtu.be/92zNVC_qKBE

[akirk]

AlexH89 said:

I need much more space to brake so I can get off the brakes in time to avoid overlapping. It seems to be much slower than changing down while braking because of the extra distance required.

Common issue with corners etc. is that visually we see the point at which we absolutely have to slow down and we resent having to slow down more than necessary to avoid death or before that point... However, see it another way, if you brake earlier so that you are coming back onto the power by that same point - the car is more stable, you are at the same amount of power at the same point of the corner and you are now accelerating (or holding power while the limit point stays equi-distant, ready to add power)...

The amount of extra time taken by slowing down earlier is balanced by getting the power on earlier and adding in more acceleration through the corner. The weight of the car has been balanced and it is an overall smoother drive around the corner, which actually should take less time due to earlier power, and leave you exiting the corner at a higher speed meaning that your speed across the next straight is higher...

It is a psychological challenge as it seems counter-productive, but I was playing with this last week and it is amazing how, contrary to what you expect, earlier braking and earlier power gives a much faster & smoother corner... so do try it...

A lot of people are fighting the car into the corner, while braking - they don't come back onto the power until the apex / after the corner - bringing power in earlier is so much better...

if you really want to speed it up - have a look at trail braking...

[AlexH89]

akirk said:

Common issue with corners etc. is that visually we see the point at which we absolutely have to slow down and we resent having to slow down more than necessary to avoid death or before that point... However, see it another way, if you brake earlier so that you are coming back onto the power by that same point - the car is more stable, you are at the same amount of power at the same point of the corner and you are now accelerating (or holding power while the limit point stays equi-distant, ready to add power)...

The amount of extra time taken by slowing down earlier is balanced by getting the power on earlier and adding in more acceleration through the corner. The weight of the car has been balanced and it is an overall smoother drive around the corner, which actually should take less time due to earlier power, and leave you exiting the corner at a higher speed meaning that your speed across the next straight is higher...

It is a psychological challenge as it seems counter-productive, but I was playing with this last week and it is amazing how, contrary to what you expect, earlier braking and earlier power gives a much faster & smoother corner... so do try it...

A lot of people are fighting the car into the corner, while braking - they don't come back onto the power until the apex / after the corner - bringing power in earlier is so much better...

if you really want to speed it up - have a look at trail braking...

Trail braking is what I'm used to along with heel and toe. Just can't break the habit

Edited by AlexH89 on Thursday 16th March 19:43

[AlexH89]

Reg Local said:

I made a video about BGOL last year which should answer some of your questions:

https://youtu.be/92zNVC_qKBE

Seen this Video Reg. I just seem to be rubbish at it. I'll have to go ahead and book that session with you when time allows

[AlexH89]

Also how do you insert multiple quotes? I'm on the mobile site.

[OGR4M]

AlexH89 said:

Also how do you insert multiple quotes? I'm on the mobile site.

Write it yourself, copy what you want to put in, then type the quote code, adjusting the username accordingly:

OGR4M said:

see, like this!

Unless there is an official way and I'm being slightly doughnutish.

[dvenman]

AlexH89 said:

Trail braking is what I'm used to along with heel and toe. Just can't break the habit

Great for those tightening downhill corners where you want to keep the car under control, and with heel and toe allows you to select the correct gear when the view opens up.

I find that on uphill and flat cornering, having the power applied earlier settles the car - you can't really trail brake in these circumstances and have the car settled at the same time. Heel and toe still works, but I find BGOL useful to get the concept of systematic driving across to new associates by specifically breaking the stages down, especially between the S and G elements.

[huytonman]

I had the same problem, heel and toed for donkeys years, in fact since mky first car which was a mini with no synchromesh so when I did the ROSPA training it was a pain to unlearn the habit - it was helped in my case by using an auto box most of the time but when driving a manual I still want to H&T..practise and you will get there but dont remove the abaility totally, there will still be instances when overlap makes sense - its not dogma.
Keith