Breaking the speed limit? Is it ever acceptable?

[anonymous-user]

Todays driving conundrum:


On the M4, in a section of 50mph (specs controlled) roadworks (well, lots of cones, no actual works or workers visible obviously).

As we are about to exit back into de-restricted limit, i'm in the outside lane, doing 50, and i spy in my mirrors two cars approaching at a decent lick. Difficult to estimate their speeds of course, but at the rate they were catching me, i'm going to suggest they were travelling up towards 100mph. As we pass the derestrict signs, drivers start to accelerate up from just about 50mph, to a typical 75 to 80mph. The middle lane is pretty much jam packed (inside lane empty of course....) So i have a descision to make if i want to avoid getting tangled up in those two cars catching me:

1) Brake or maintain speed, hope a big enough gap opens to my left in the approx 15 to 20 sec i have before getting caught.

or

2) Accelerate to (well) above the limit, and move into a completely clear section of carriageway approx 100 yards away in front of me.


I choose 2, (road is dry, visibility good, and no other traffic is giving me any concern that they might pull out into the outside lane unexpectidly (especially as the middle lane is accelerating anyway, rather than cruising or braking).

Literally as i pass the last car to my left, i see the rear of the two cars, that are now probably just approx 50 meters behind me (but no longer catching me) light up in a burst of blues and twos. I move to the inside lane, and they flash past me, a grey AMG merc, with the unmarked X5 about 3 car lengths behind, still lit up. After passing me, merc slows suddenly and moves to hard shoulder, with X5 shadowing him.


So, did i do the right thing? if i did that on an advanced driving assessment should i expect to get marked down?

I mentioned to my passenger that i was "just getting out of the way of some faster cars behind" and he mentioned that had the merc been intent on getting away from the X5, it could be a bad thing to have held him up (which i guess is very unlikely, but possible)

[Driversmatter]

I have to say from reading your post if lane 1 was empty or empty enough to avoid middle lane mayhem I'd have been in it myself.

Next point hard to say without being there, but if you've got a murderer intent on evading arrest behind you, I guess they don't care about speed limit enforcement it'd be a fair shout they wouldn't object to nudging you out of the way.

However advanced driving is about avoiding the situation that would require you to break the law in the first place, and as already said without being there its impossible to say.

Edited by Driversmatter on Saturday 25th February 20:24

[spookly]

The simple answer to this question is:

Legally: No

Morally: Depends on your own personal morals

For me personally, speeding is perfectly acceptable, so long as I am fairly certain I am not about to be caught, and I judge it to be safe to do so.

[ScoobyChris]

Max_Torque said:

So, did i do the right thing? if i did that on an advanced driving assessment should i expect to get marked down?

The second question is easy - yes, you should expect to be marked down if you're breaking the law - whether you would or not is another matter but on an assessment you'd probably be unlikely to be in lane 3 anyway

As to whether it's right, I don't think there is a single answer to that. Your outcome of your decision didn't seem to have any negative consequences and maybe you slowed the Merc enough that the X5 could catch him

Chris

[nonsequitur]

spookly said:

The simple answer to this question is:

Legally: No

Morally: Depends on your own personal morals

For me personally, speeding is perfectly acceptable, so long as I am fairly certain I am not about to be caught, and I judge it to be safe to do so.

For years now I have observed all speed limits, but of course there will be occasions when I exceed them. TBH this is rare and not a default position. I am a more relaxed driver keeping to the limit and am happy to do so.

[Blakewater]

Driversmatter said:

I have to say from reading your post if lane 1 was empty or empty enough to avoid middle lane mayhem I'd have been in it myself.

We don't know what the situation in the inside lane was before the end of the roadworks. Someone on an assessment wouldn't necessarily be in the inside lane as moving out to avoid traffic joining from very shortened sliproads with poor visibility is a good idea and it's perfectly reasonable to overtake traffic bunched up at less than 50mph.

In terms of day to day driving I do whatever I feel is necessary to avoid confrontation because I find confrontation and road rage is where danger escalates. Worrying about the other person, feeling threatened or getting angry takes your concentration away from safe driving and hazards coming from elsewhere.

[Gary C]

Interesting

For my example, I was in lane three passing a couple of cars, speed approx 70-80 normal m-way speed really.

I see a car in lane three approaching at significantly faster speed such that it would have to slow before I got into a position to pull into lane 2.

I speeded up to ~90 for a few yards, indicated, then moved into lane 2 and resumed my previous speed.

The following car then slowed by the side of me and passenger flashed warrant card, even though it was obvious I was aware of him and other traffic, was calmly making progress with due deference to other drivers etc but still I was given the evils by the driver and his passenger.

So basically, no. You can't

[ian in lancs]

Gary said:

The following car then slowed by the side of me and passenger flashed warrant card

Cock

[Blakewater]

Gary C said:

Interesting

For my example, I was in lane three passing a couple of cars, speed approx 70-80 normal m-way speed really.

I see a car in lane three approaching at significantly faster speed such that it would have to slow before I got into a position to pull into lane 2.

I speeded up to ~90 for a few yards, indicated, then moved into lane 2 and resumed my previous speed.

The following car then slowed by the side of me and passenger flashed warrant card, even though it was obvious I was aware of him and other traffic, was calmly making progress with due deference to other drivers etc but still I was given the evils by the driver and his passenger.

So basically, no. You can't

That's using a position of authority to bully people for the sake of ego, or being completely oblivious to how their behaviour is perceived by other people. Either way, it doesn't give the police a good image.

[Nigel Worc's]

It is often acceptable.

It is never legal unless you hold an exemption.

That's about it really.

[Gemmot]

Max_Torque said:

Todays driving conundrum:


On the M4, in a section of 50mph (specs controlled) roadworks (well, lots of cones, no actual works or workers visible obviously).

As we are about to exit back into de-restricted limit, i'm in the outside lane, doing 50, and i spy in my mirrors two cars approaching at a decent lick. Difficult to estimate their speeds of course, but at the rate they were catching me, i'm going to suggest they were travelling up towards 100mph. As we pass the derestrict signs, drivers start to accelerate up from just about 50mph, to a typical 75 to 80mph. The middle lane is pretty much jam packed (inside lane empty of course....) So i have a descision to make if i want to avoid getting tangled up in those two cars catching me:

1) Brake or maintain speed, hope a big enough gap opens to my left in the approx 15 to 20 sec i have before getting caught.

or

2) Accelerate to (well) above the limit, and move into a completely clear section of carriageway approx 100 yards away in front of me.


I choose 2, (road is dry, visibility good, and no other traffic is giving me any concern that they might pull out into the outside lane unexpectidly (especially as the middle lane is accelerating anyway, rather than cruising or braking).



So, did i do the right thing? if i did that on an advanced driving assessment should i expect to get marked down?

Yes you did for the following reasons...

1. Ensuring you didn't cause an accident/ unnecessary obstruction

2. If as you say it was purely just an initial accelerate and slow to speed limit

3. Your spatial/ road awareness appears very detailed and reasoned.

4. You are not using the excuse of keeping up with traffic.

However...

Specs / gatso are machines so will ticket you even if you were on a life or death mission.

But... I should imagine that the amg mercedes driving at 100mph in a roadwork 50mph would have committed a dangerous undertake had you not moved out of the way which would have caused plod more issues in getting you out of the way thereby allowing the soon to be disqualified mercedes driver pull away.

Imho you did right

[angoooose]

Gary C said:

Interesting

For my example, I was in lane three passing a couple of cars, speed approx 70-80 normal m-way speed really.

I see a car in lane three approaching at significantly faster speed such that it would have to slow before I got into a position to pull into lane 2.

I speeded up to ~90 for a few yards, indicated, then moved into lane 2 and resumed my previous speed.

The following car then slowed by the side of me and passenger flashed warrant card, even though it was obvious I was aware of him and other traffic, was calmly making progress with due deference to other drivers etc but still I was given the evils by the driver and his passenger.

So basically, no. You can't

Personally I would think your actions were reasonable, but I'd make a note of the registration of the car so that if anything drops on the mat in the following week you can state that you were making acceptable progress and that you only accelerated to avoid the speeding car, can I see the videa to prove it, and why were they exceeding the limit in the first place that they had time to slow and flash a warrant card?

Or if you want to land them in it, report them to your local plod as it probably wasn't an unmarked car or you'd've got a flash of the blues

[Gary C]

angoooose said:

Gary C said:

Interesting

For my example, I was in lane three passing a couple of cars, speed approx 70-80 normal m-way speed really.

I see a car in lane three approaching at significantly faster speed such that it would have to slow before I got into a position to pull into lane 2.

I speeded up to ~90 for a few yards, indicated, then moved into lane 2 and resumed my previous speed.

The following car then slowed by the side of me and passenger flashed warrant card, even though it was obvious I was aware of him and other traffic, was calmly making progress with due deference to other drivers etc but still I was given the evils by the driver and his passenger.

So basically, no. You can't

Personally I would think your actions were reasonable, but I'd make a note of the registration of the car so that if anything drops on the mat in the following week you can state that you were making acceptable progress and that you only accelerated to avoid the speeding car, can I see the videa to prove it, and why were they exceeding the limit in the first place that they had time to slow and flash a warrant card?

Or if you want to land them in it, report them to your local plod as it probably wasn't an unmarked car or you'd've got a flash of the blues

Was about 10 years ago on the m5 near Bristol and nothing ever landed on the mat (phew)

They just didn't like the fact I plainly exceeded the limit, even briefly and for 'good' reasons.

In most cases, I must say the traffic police I have ever met have been really good and sensible with no power trip attitude.

[Hackney]

Max_Torque said:

Literally as i pass the last car to my left, i see the rear of the two cars, that are now probably just approx 50 meters behind me (but no longer catching me) light up in a burst of blues and twos. I move to the inside lane, and they flash past me, a grey AMG merc, with the unmarked X5 about 3 car lengths behind, still lit up. After passing me, merc slows suddenly and moves to hard shoulder, with X5 shadowing him.

Apologies if I'm being dim but:
- how did you see the rear of two cars that were behind you?
- was the Merc an unmarked police car or was the X5 chasing the Merc?

[anonymous-user]

Hackney said:

Max_Torque said:

Literally as i pass the last car to my left, i see the rear of the two cars, that are now probably just approx 50 meters behind me (but no longer catching me) light up in a burst of blues and twos. I move to the inside lane, and they flash past me, a grey AMG merc, with the unmarked X5 about 3 car lengths behind, still lit up. After passing me, merc slows suddenly and moves to hard shoulder, with X5 shadowing him.

Apologies if I'm being dim but:
- how did you see the rear of two cars that were behind you?
- was the Merc an unmarked police car or was the X5 chasing the Merc?

For 'the rear of the two cars' i mean the one at the back ie behind the merc), not the physical back of them. Being an X5 it was a lot taller than the merc, so i could easily see the blues come on!

I had assumed the merc was a covert car, after all, who would do 100mph through a specs section of mway with a pretty sus looking X5 nailed to your rear bumper. But, no i think the merc was just a muppet not paying any attention, as they pulled over to the hard shoulder a few seconds after getting lit up!

[talksthetorque]

Max_Torque said:

For 'the rear of the two cars' i mean the one at the back ie behind the merc), not the physical back of them. Being an X5 it was a lot taller than the merc, so i could easily see the blues come on!

I had assumed the merc was a covert car, after all, who would do 100mph through a specs section of mway with a pretty sus looking X5 nailed to your rear bumper. But, no i think the merc was just a muppet not paying any attention, as they pulled over to the hard shoulder a few seconds after getting lit up!

This might have been a training exercise.

[Pica-Pica]

Without being there, I would say you probably did the right thing. On 50 limits (and hard shoulder running!), I try to be in the left-most lane. Another point to raise is; if you are at a red traffic light, would you, safely, nudge through the light to let an ambulance with siren on through ? I imagine we all would for a police car with sirens going.

[pim]

It depends by how much you break it and where regarding the speed limit.

Many moons ago driving from Manchester back to the East riding in a Mercedes oil test car.Time about two in the morning.No traffic me and a Audi following we did about 120mph.Felt comfortable and yes way over the limit.35 in town when kids leaving school I wouldn't think of speeding. Driving anywhere now I stick to the limit maybe a few mile over but no more.

So many camaras and restrictions it isn't worth the hassle of a fine and three points.

[Solocle]

Pica-Pica said:

Without being there, I would say you probably did the right thing. On 50 limits (and hard shoulder running!), I try to be in the left-most lane. Another point to raise is; if you are at a red traffic light, would you, safely, nudge through the light to let an ambulance with siren on through ? I imagine we all would for a police car with sirens going.

Personally, I'd be less likely to move for the police car than the ambulance. Certainly, if I got done for crossing a red light to make way for emergency vehicles, it's the police cars I'd stop moving for.

[a]

In your situation I wouldn't have tried to accelerate out of the way of the cars coming up from behind. People generally don't want to crash into you and it's more likely they would have just tailgated or flashed their lights at you.

If you think a rear end crash is imminent, you could try to steer out of the way and make sure you're sitting straight (not turning your head to look behind) to minimise injuries.

If you have enough time to add 50mph to your speed, then the crash wasn't imminent and you'd be better off driving in a predictable manner so the cars behind can follow through with whatever their plan is.


Although in general I think it's "acceptable" to go over the limit if it helps with an overtake, for example. But I try not to go over 10% + 2mph (real speed, slightly more indicated) just in case.

Edited by a on Monday 24th April 14:13