Discussion
Getting back into AD since passing and observing 14yrs ago much in car technology has changed for the better. Im told the examiner doesn't like...
Auto-stop start - seems a top idea to me
Auto wipers - I can always add a wipe if necs
Auto lights - work pretty well except for fog
Auto main beam - fantastic
Auto handbrake - great in traffic
purely auto use of an auto box - will want a period of manual use during the test; bit difficult that as the box over-rides the selection if it dissagrees!
Parking sensors
Cruise control - use it a lot 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 them all
Auto-stop start - seems a top idea to me
Auto wipers - I can always add a wipe if necs
Auto lights - work pretty well except for fog
Auto main beam - fantastic
Auto handbrake - great in traffic
purely auto use of an auto box - will want a period of manual use during the test; bit difficult that as the box over-rides the selection if it dissagrees!
Parking sensors
Cruise control - use it a lot 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 them all
- rolls eyes* get with the present IAM
Has the examiner told you that they don't like these things?
Or has someone told you that the eaxaminer doesn't like these things?
Either way, the examiner's opinions on such items is mostly irrelevant as they don't define whether you're a competent driver or not. Apart from the auto gearbox - you can stick the car in drive and just leave it there for the full test but you may improve your result by demonstrating that you know how and when to use other gearbox functions.
The other stuff is just irrelevant fluff.
I don't particularly like French cars, but I won't fail you just because you turn up for test in a Peugeot.
Or has someone told you that the eaxaminer doesn't like these things?
Either way, the examiner's opinions on such items is mostly irrelevant as they don't define whether you're a competent driver or not. Apart from the auto gearbox - you can stick the car in drive and just leave it there for the full test but you may improve your result by demonstrating that you know how and when to use other gearbox functions.
The other stuff is just irrelevant fluff.
I don't particularly like French cars, but I won't fail you just because you turn up for test in a Peugeot.
the observers are telling me if i don't do things manually id oddly get marked down. my view, not that it matters, is if its appropriate use the stuff.
re the gearbox and after some experimentation it seems the normal/comfort setting is fine for most stuff, the eco dulls the dynamics and is sluggish and for nsl country roads sport is pretty much perfectly set up. Ive occasionally had to select a lower gear but thats it. Pretty good programming thats suits my driving
re the gearbox and after some experimentation it seems the normal/comfort setting is fine for most stuff, the eco dulls the dynamics and is sluggish and for nsl country roads sport is pretty much perfectly set up. Ive occasionally had to select a lower gear but thats it. Pretty good programming thats suits my driving
Edited by ian in lancs on Tuesday 24th January 22:36
Won't manual override be for things like holding a gear through some twisties, when approaching a roundabout with a view to being in the most accelerative gear when exiting, preselecting a gear for overtaking rather than kicking down etc?
Personally i have always used these modes for such purposes when pressing on in autos, but my auto experience is all newer cars rather than the old 3 and 4-speeds.
Personally i have always used these modes for such purposes when pressing on in autos, but my auto experience is all newer cars rather than the old 3 and 4-speeds.
Ian, you are correct in saying that the electronic driving aids in modern cars ought to be taken advantage of and used in the way in which the vehicle designers envisaged. That said, if you are taking a "driving test" some examiners are quite happy for example, you to leave the gearbox in auto, modern gearboxes can handle pretty well most things, however the examiner will expect you to be able to drive at 30mph without using the electronic speed limiter!
As another commented above, most of what you listed is a lot of fluff. What I would do at the ouset though is to clarify with the examiner just what he expects, does he require lots of manual intervention with the auto box or maybe a little intervention say by manually dropping a gear and holding that setting on a steep downhill section of road.
Mine is an 8 gear auto, driving along country lanes my favourite setting is manual 4th because that gives me acceleration and deceleration, (in full auto mode deceleration is "missing"), which allows me to make progress on the accelerator alone, rarely using the brakes, and affords a smooth controlled drive.
So prepare to drive in an advanced way without the aids but I fully expect your examiner will be relaxed about you using most of them.
As another commented above, most of what you listed is a lot of fluff. What I would do at the ouset though is to clarify with the examiner just what he expects, does he require lots of manual intervention with the auto box or maybe a little intervention say by manually dropping a gear and holding that setting on a steep downhill section of road.
Mine is an 8 gear auto, driving along country lanes my favourite setting is manual 4th because that gives me acceleration and deceleration, (in full auto mode deceleration is "missing"), which allows me to make progress on the accelerator alone, rarely using the brakes, and affords a smooth controlled drive.
So prepare to drive in an advanced way without the aids but I fully expect your examiner will be relaxed about you using most of them.
The cars I'm using are both BMW's with diesel 8-speed autos. One a 3.0d, the other a 2.5d. Both pretty responsive. The power band though is pretty narrow so most broad speed changes demand a load of gear changes. Why do that manually if it far better done by a well executed computer. I may drop a gear for a busy junction where the hazard / fact pattern would suggest the plan includes more a responsive vehicle. Roundabouts though it seems to get it bang on! It is as flat as a fluke round here so little chance of needing to transmission brake the car! Sport, as I said, is terrific on NSL.
Oh and of course I can do 30 without cruise *rolls eyes* - What I am thinking is there are some dual cabbage roads round here, over a mile long and with no traffic a lot of the time yet they are 30 - why not use cruise?
Oh and of course I can do 30 without cruise *rolls eyes* - What I am thinking is there are some dual cabbage roads round here, over a mile long and with no traffic a lot of the time yet they are 30 - why not use cruise?
ian in lancs said:
The cars I'm using are both BMW's with diesel 8-speed autos. One a 3.0d, the other a 2.5d. Both pretty responsive.
The 25d is probably not a 2.5 litre - Depending on what year it is chances are it's either a detuned 3l or a higher rated 2l (If you were planning on mentioning it in your cockpit drills).I'd probably only be looking to override the selected gear in anticipation of an overtaking opportunity (and knock it back to auto if it doesn't arise) or to control speed on a decent and potentially prior to an ascent - Is it Rolls that now come with GPS on their gearboxes so they can pre shift prior to hills based on mapping data?
Yep its a 2.0d 325. My typo.
Ive found that having the box in 'comfort' aka normal 8 speed and flapping down a gear or two in anticipation of an overtake has a couple of consequences. Firstly, the diesel power band is narrow and way too soon another gear is reqd. Or the box goes nah and changes back just as you go for the overtake. However, in 'Sport' mode it seems to adopt a 6 speed configuration and holds gears longer - so way better for the overtake.
Ive found that having the box in 'comfort' aka normal 8 speed and flapping down a gear or two in anticipation of an overtake has a couple of consequences. Firstly, the diesel power band is narrow and way too soon another gear is reqd. Or the box goes nah and changes back just as you go for the overtake. However, in 'Sport' mode it seems to adopt a 6 speed configuration and holds gears longer - so way better for the overtake.
ian in lancs said:
Yep its a 2.0d 325. My typo.
Ive found that having the box in 'comfort' aka normal 8 speed and flapping down a gear or two in anticipation of an overtake has a couple of consequences. Firstly, the diesel power band is narrow and way too soon another gear is reqd. Or the box goes nah and changes back just as you go for the overtake. However, in 'Sport' mode it seems to adopt a 6 speed configuration and holds gears longer - so way better for the overtake.
Last time I was driving a Diesel enthusiastically (6spd manual), I found I had to take a gear higher than I normally would in my petrol for overtaking so that you come into the power band. Starting from ~2000 rev/min in 4th was much better than ~2500-3000 in 3rd as you soon ran out of steam whereas 4th kept pulling. Ive found that having the box in 'comfort' aka normal 8 speed and flapping down a gear or two in anticipation of an overtake has a couple of consequences. Firstly, the diesel power band is narrow and way too soon another gear is reqd. Or the box goes nah and changes back just as you go for the overtake. However, in 'Sport' mode it seems to adopt a 6 speed configuration and holds gears longer - so way better for the overtake.
Also Vmax in those 8spd boxes is normally in 6th and 7/8 are over geared for efficiency, hence when on sport it will often ignore the top two.
You are telling us Ian that you know your cars and how best they perform, drop that into your commentary and impress your examiner on the day. He may not agree with everything but at least you have a reasoned argument for your actions, then if the rest of your drive is up to it, no problem!
Reg is your man to listen to here, he's a RoSPA examiner. When I took my test last year I did exactly as you describe, OP. I explained the box and how it's designed/works (DSG), and then mostly left it in D. I did use the paddles occasionally to drop down as required on hills or NSL bends for stability (it's a 2.0 turbo petrol), and used sport mode on the twistier back roads for more control. Mostly though, it was in D as I said.
I had auto lights enabled but explained briefly in commentary that I'd flick them to manual dipped beam if visibility dropped (ambient light can be high enough in the daytime to confuse the car and leave lights off where you'd actually need them - an afternoon shower or mist for example). I also made use of auto wipe and all the rest of it. On the M6 I established myself on the road then turned on the adaptive cruise, having explained in my commentary that it was pointless fannying about with the accelerator in traffic on a wide open motorway when I'd paid for ACC on my car. That way I have a fraction more mental capacity to throw down the road rather than wondering where my right foot is when the circumstances don't require it.
I got a Gold and the examiner said he'd have been just as happy if I'd just left it in D throughout, as he didn't see the need to mess about when the car generally knew what it was doing faster than I did. He also said he admits I know my car better than he, so all he was concerned about was the stability of the drive and the fact he was comfortable as a passenger. No problems. Maybe consider looking for a local RoADAR group, as in my fairly limited experience the examiners are generally the same people who do the IAM tests, but RoSPA groups themselves are less dogmatic. Good luck.
I had auto lights enabled but explained briefly in commentary that I'd flick them to manual dipped beam if visibility dropped (ambient light can be high enough in the daytime to confuse the car and leave lights off where you'd actually need them - an afternoon shower or mist for example). I also made use of auto wipe and all the rest of it. On the M6 I established myself on the road then turned on the adaptive cruise, having explained in my commentary that it was pointless fannying about with the accelerator in traffic on a wide open motorway when I'd paid for ACC on my car. That way I have a fraction more mental capacity to throw down the road rather than wondering where my right foot is when the circumstances don't require it.
I got a Gold and the examiner said he'd have been just as happy if I'd just left it in D throughout, as he didn't see the need to mess about when the car generally knew what it was doing faster than I did. He also said he admits I know my car better than he, so all he was concerned about was the stability of the drive and the fact he was comfortable as a passenger. No problems. Maybe consider looking for a local RoADAR group, as in my fairly limited experience the examiners are generally the same people who do the IAM tests, but RoSPA groups themselves are less dogmatic. Good luck.
you're not the first person to suggest RoSPA for less pedantry.
Anyway my plan is to finish the IAM Course and then pay Mr Local a visit or two as he seems to be the real deal. I don't actually need to pass the test again so I'll decide whether to go for it later. Just wanna improve and get to the point whereby reflective practice moves me forward and not be dogged by pedantry and shallow thinking. The automation is there to be used and the result of extensive testing so why not. After all I wouldn't switch of other driver aids such as the traction control or power steering jus so i can demonstrate skid control (I worked in Sweden for 6 years before traction control cars so got that to a fine art..) or I can turn a wheel with my puny muscles.
Anyway my plan is to finish the IAM Course and then pay Mr Local a visit or two as he seems to be the real deal. I don't actually need to pass the test again so I'll decide whether to go for it later. Just wanna improve and get to the point whereby reflective practice moves me forward and not be dogged by pedantry and shallow thinking. The automation is there to be used and the result of extensive testing so why not. After all I wouldn't switch of other driver aids such as the traction control or power steering jus so i can demonstrate skid control (I worked in Sweden for 6 years before traction control cars so got that to a fine art..) or I can turn a wheel with my puny muscles.
ian in lancs said:
you're not the first person to suggest RoSPA for less pedantry.
Anyway my plan is to finish the IAM Course and then pay Mr Local a visit or two as he seems to be the real deal. I don't actually need to pass the test again so I'll decide whether to go for it later. Just wanna improve and get to the point whereby reflective practice moves me forward and not be dogged by pedantry and shallow thinking. The automation is there to be used and the result of extensive testing so why not. After all I wouldn't switch of other driver aids such as the traction control or power steering jus so i can demonstrate skid control (I worked in Sweden for 6 years before traction control cars so got that to a fine art..) or I can turn a wheel with my puny muscles.
You won't go wrong if you can get out with Reg. I've been out a few times with him and will be going again as soon as I get a chance. Have you checked out his website?Anyway my plan is to finish the IAM Course and then pay Mr Local a visit or two as he seems to be the real deal. I don't actually need to pass the test again so I'll decide whether to go for it later. Just wanna improve and get to the point whereby reflective practice moves me forward and not be dogged by pedantry and shallow thinking. The automation is there to be used and the result of extensive testing so why not. After all I wouldn't switch of other driver aids such as the traction control or power steering jus so i can demonstrate skid control (I worked in Sweden for 6 years before traction control cars so got that to a fine art..) or I can turn a wheel with my puny muscles.
My IAM examiner complained because he didn't have anything to write on his sheet. I used the stop/start, cruise control, auto lights, auto release EPB, auto wipe, reverse camera, sensors etc and there was no need to use anything else but D on the auto.
He was most impressed by the fitting of winter wheels and tyres and he asked me if I fitted them myself and how I stored them.
This was very recent, I got a F1RST on my first attempt so I think I must have got it right
He was most impressed by the fitting of winter wheels and tyres and he asked me if I fitted them myself and how I stored them.
This was very recent, I got a F1RST on my first attempt so I think I must have got it right
You can still show correct use of an automatic gearbox. Push the lever to the left to enter sports mode holding onto higher revs. Use paddles now and you're in full manual mode with only red line shifting and anti stall. I would have thought any examiner when told why you do things as you do them would assess accordingly.
Whenever I see a car without lights on I double check my automatic lights have been activated. They're not fool proof in certain conditions so again, a simple comment would demonstrate that you're using the technology as an aid rather than relying on it.
Whenever I see a car without lights on I double check my automatic lights have been activated. They're not fool proof in certain conditions so again, a simple comment would demonstrate that you're using the technology as an aid rather than relying on it.
[quote=ian in lancs]the observers are telling me if i don't do things manually id oddly get marked down. my view, not that it matters, is if its appropriate use the stuff./quote]
Well 'the observers' are just plain wrong I'm afraid. There is written advice from HQ that modern technology in cars is fine to use on test - if done appropriately. They cite cruise control as an example - fine to use if advantageous - but if used excessively, the examiner may ask for speed to be controlled manually (to show you can do it!).
Yes another case of the message not getting through or being misinterpreted by local observers.
Get 'the observers' to check with their Regional Manager or HQ - they might be surprised.
Well 'the observers' are just plain wrong I'm afraid. There is written advice from HQ that modern technology in cars is fine to use on test - if done appropriately. They cite cruise control as an example - fine to use if advantageous - but if used excessively, the examiner may ask for speed to be controlled manually (to show you can do it!).
Yes another case of the message not getting through or being misinterpreted by local observers.
Get 'the observers' to check with their Regional Manager or HQ - they might be surprised.
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