Large SUV's and driving smoothly...
Discussion
I'm in a fortunate position of driving two SUV's. They are both quite different, and one in particular is a bit of a challenge when trying to be smooth, especially when making progress.
The easy one is a Volvo XC60. I drive this a lot - about 800 miles a week, mostly on my own... The suspension is quite firm, and other than it being not the most powerful thing in the world it does ok. Twisty's are not really enjoyable, but there is little body roll and it's easy enough to be smooth.
The other car is a Range Rover. It's the 3.6V8 diesel, so is reasonably quick (compared to the 3.0 we had before), but I'm conscious of my wife grabbing for the handle when we come to corners. I question as to whether I'm as smooth as I should be...
The suspension is soft (which I like), but it does roll like a boat. If I'm not careful (I usually am), it can become lurch city.....
So any tips as to how to improve?
The easy one is a Volvo XC60. I drive this a lot - about 800 miles a week, mostly on my own... The suspension is quite firm, and other than it being not the most powerful thing in the world it does ok. Twisty's are not really enjoyable, but there is little body roll and it's easy enough to be smooth.
The other car is a Range Rover. It's the 3.6V8 diesel, so is reasonably quick (compared to the 3.0 we had before), but I'm conscious of my wife grabbing for the handle when we come to corners. I question as to whether I'm as smooth as I should be...
The suspension is soft (which I like), but it does roll like a boat. If I'm not careful (I usually am), it can become lurch city.....
So any tips as to how to improve?
surveyor said:
I'm in a fortunate position of driving two SUV's. They are both quite different, and one in particular is a bit of a challenge when trying to be smooth, especially when making progress.
The easy one is a Volvo XC60. I drive this a lot - about 800 miles a week, mostly on my own... The suspension is quite firm, and other than it being not the most powerful thing in the world it does ok. Twisty's are not really enjoyable, but there is little body roll and it's easy enough to be smooth.
The other car is a Range Rover. It's the 3.6V8 diesel, so is reasonably quick (compared to the 3.0 we had before), but I'm conscious of my wife grabbing for the handle when we come to corners. I question as to whether I'm as smooth as I should be...
The suspension is soft (which I like), but it does roll like a boat. If I'm not careful (I usually am), it can become lurch city.....
So any tips as to how to improve?
I guess all the usual advice about smooth driving / chauffeuring will apply if smoothness is the main goal but here I wonder if the "Sir would like to be pushed into his seat" is particularly relevant. Don't brake or decelerate right into or through corners but instead slow gradually in advance then accelerate through them where appropriate; the body roll is a property of the vehicle but if you apply some gas through the bend it will feel more comfortable and smooth for the passengers. Deceleration and body roll combined will lead to the passenger reaching for the grab handle. Try to find one angle of steering throughout a bend - adjusting steering angle whilst cornering in a car like the RR will be very noticeable in the cabin. Selecting the correct speed on entry, linking to available vision and grip is key. The easy one is a Volvo XC60. I drive this a lot - about 800 miles a week, mostly on my own... The suspension is quite firm, and other than it being not the most powerful thing in the world it does ok. Twisty's are not really enjoyable, but there is little body roll and it's easy enough to be smooth.
The other car is a Range Rover. It's the 3.6V8 diesel, so is reasonably quick (compared to the 3.0 we had before), but I'm conscious of my wife grabbing for the handle when we come to corners. I question as to whether I'm as smooth as I should be...
The suspension is soft (which I like), but it does roll like a boat. If I'm not careful (I usually am), it can become lurch city.....
So any tips as to how to improve?
Not easy though I know - there's a difference between chauffeuring and pressing on!
DocSteve said:
Not easy though I know - there's a difference between chauffeuring and pressing on!
In something that big I'm not really sure there is. 
The key is smoothness. In any roly-poly car you need to get it settled as early as possible, which means thinking a bit more about corner entry. you need to add steering angle progressively rather than all in one go. The same applies for the accelerator and brake - get the car to settle into the acceleration or braking progressively.
In essence, these same techniques are the ones you'd need to use to not crash if you were right at the limit of grip.
I agree with the 2 up there......take less speed into the bends whilst straight.....lift off the loud pedal early....the weight transfers onto the front wheels....then lightly brake. Your braking should be complete before the bends (with any gear changes required) and very light gas on pulls the car around, as it's light gas on it makes the vehicle more stable and balanced, and as the bends "runs away" from you apply more power.
You could also consider straight lining some of your bends depending on other road users/traffic/road markings/signs, but you must really make sure your "exit" can be seen clearly, and got into without upsetting other road users, use your mirrors to see what is behind and along side you. The "Camber" of the road could be used in your favour as well as it works against you at times, so think about your road positioning.
You will also see your fuel consumption full big time, also means you can take the wife out for a pickled egg and half a cider with the savings
You could also consider straight lining some of your bends depending on other road users/traffic/road markings/signs, but you must really make sure your "exit" can be seen clearly, and got into without upsetting other road users, use your mirrors to see what is behind and along side you. The "Camber" of the road could be used in your favour as well as it works against you at times, so think about your road positioning.
You will also see your fuel consumption full big time, also means you can take the wife out for a pickled egg and half a cider with the savings
Edited by watchnut on Monday 28th November 18:49
Edited by watchnut on Monday 28th November 18:51
In the early stages of a police advanced course, when I was starting to introduce the principles of cornering, I used to take my students out for a day in a wallowy old Landrover Discovery V8.
It was by far the best car on the fleet in which to teach students the basics of balancing a car through a corner with a gentle, increasing application of throttle. The soft, long-travel old-school off-road suspension exaggerated every input made by the students and it was an extremely useful tool for teaching the difference between on-throttle cornering and off-throttle cornering (and - even worse - lifting off the throttle mid-corner).
In these vehicles, every input results in an exaggerated reaction from the car. Firm braking induces excessive dive, firm acceleration brings on large amounts of squat and rough steering inputs result in huge amounts of body roll.
Don't get me wrong - you can make decent, brisk progress in such cars, but as others have pointed out, they need a certain finesse in the way you operate the controls. It's already been covered, but you need to set the car up for a corner - try to do everything early and introduce the steering early and gently to start the weight transfer, take up the "slack" in the high sidewalled-tyres and let the car know what you're about to do. At the same time, start gently applying the throttle to move the cars weight backwards a tad and you'll find the car reacts nicely without feeling like it's lurching around.
Don't lift off the throttle mid-corner though. It'll set off a diagonal lurching motion which passengers in particular find quite uncomfortable. Instead, keep a small-to-medium amount of throttle applied until the corner starts to open up & you start to wind the steering lock off.
You would think that old school 4X4s with their long travel traditional suspension would react well to an agricultural, clog and anchor driving style, but, actually, to move them along at speed requires an unexpectedly high degree of delicacy and finesse.
It was by far the best car on the fleet in which to teach students the basics of balancing a car through a corner with a gentle, increasing application of throttle. The soft, long-travel old-school off-road suspension exaggerated every input made by the students and it was an extremely useful tool for teaching the difference between on-throttle cornering and off-throttle cornering (and - even worse - lifting off the throttle mid-corner).
In these vehicles, every input results in an exaggerated reaction from the car. Firm braking induces excessive dive, firm acceleration brings on large amounts of squat and rough steering inputs result in huge amounts of body roll.
Don't get me wrong - you can make decent, brisk progress in such cars, but as others have pointed out, they need a certain finesse in the way you operate the controls. It's already been covered, but you need to set the car up for a corner - try to do everything early and introduce the steering early and gently to start the weight transfer, take up the "slack" in the high sidewalled-tyres and let the car know what you're about to do. At the same time, start gently applying the throttle to move the cars weight backwards a tad and you'll find the car reacts nicely without feeling like it's lurching around.
Don't lift off the throttle mid-corner though. It'll set off a diagonal lurching motion which passengers in particular find quite uncomfortable. Instead, keep a small-to-medium amount of throttle applied until the corner starts to open up & you start to wind the steering lock off.
You would think that old school 4X4s with their long travel traditional suspension would react well to an agricultural, clog and anchor driving style, but, actually, to move them along at speed requires an unexpectedly high degree of delicacy and finesse.
Reg Local said:
In the early stages of a police advanced course, when I was starting to introduce the principles of cornering, I used to take my students out for a day in a wallowy old Landrover Discovery V8.
It was by far the best car on the fleet in which to teach students the basics of balancing a car through a corner with a gentle, increasing application of throttle. The soft, long-travel old-school off-road suspension exaggerated every input made by the students and it was an extremely useful tool for teaching the difference between on-throttle cornering and off-throttle cornering (and - even worse - lifting off the throttle mid-corner).
In these vehicles, every input results in an exaggerated reaction from the car. Firm braking induces excessive dive, firm acceleration brings on large amounts of squat and rough steering inputs result in huge amounts of body roll.
Don't get me wrong - you can make decent, brisk progress in such cars, but as others have pointed out, they need a certain finesse in the way you operate the controls. It's already been covered, but you need to set the car up for a corner - try to do everything early and introduce the steering early and gently to start the weight transfer, take up the "slack" in the high sidewalled-tyres and let the car know what you're about to do. At the same time, start gently applying the throttle to move the cars weight backwards a tad and you'll find the car reacts nicely without feeling like it's lurching around.
Don't lift off the throttle mid-corner though. It'll set off a diagonal lurching motion which passengers in particular find quite uncomfortable. Instead, keep a small-to-medium amount of throttle applied until the corner starts to open up & you start to wind the steering lock off.
You would think that old school 4X4s with their long travel traditional suspension would react well to an agricultural, clog and anchor driving style, but, actually, to move them along at speed requires an unexpectedly high degree of delicacy and finesse.
This is exactly the approach that I took with my Discovery 3 and 4, keeping control inputs smooth, balancing the car early for corners and anticipating as much as possible how the road was flowing generally allowed my missus to be relaxed - I once did none of the above; entered a sharp corner way too quickly, scared the crap out of me, the car understeered horribly and went around the corner in an ungainly manner but it was a great lesson in not folowing the above advice!It was by far the best car on the fleet in which to teach students the basics of balancing a car through a corner with a gentle, increasing application of throttle. The soft, long-travel old-school off-road suspension exaggerated every input made by the students and it was an extremely useful tool for teaching the difference between on-throttle cornering and off-throttle cornering (and - even worse - lifting off the throttle mid-corner).
In these vehicles, every input results in an exaggerated reaction from the car. Firm braking induces excessive dive, firm acceleration brings on large amounts of squat and rough steering inputs result in huge amounts of body roll.
Don't get me wrong - you can make decent, brisk progress in such cars, but as others have pointed out, they need a certain finesse in the way you operate the controls. It's already been covered, but you need to set the car up for a corner - try to do everything early and introduce the steering early and gently to start the weight transfer, take up the "slack" in the high sidewalled-tyres and let the car know what you're about to do. At the same time, start gently applying the throttle to move the cars weight backwards a tad and you'll find the car reacts nicely without feeling like it's lurching around.
Don't lift off the throttle mid-corner though. It'll set off a diagonal lurching motion which passengers in particular find quite uncomfortable. Instead, keep a small-to-medium amount of throttle applied until the corner starts to open up & you start to wind the steering lock off.
You would think that old school 4X4s with their long travel traditional suspension would react well to an agricultural, clog and anchor driving style, but, actually, to move them along at speed requires an unexpectedly high degree of delicacy and finesse.
Keith
Mrs Bert is very susceptible to body roll (oo er). It's a problem in the VW toerag. I have found that much slower corner entry is the only way to make it work for her (double oo er).
I have to make the braking work for her as well. Gentle, firm, very firm, firm, gentle. Get the speed off, controlled turn in, gentle gas increasing as you open the wheel.
She's a complete pain as pax, but it's fun to get it right.
Bert
Doing it in the 110 was tricky too!
I have to make the braking work for her as well. Gentle, firm, very firm, firm, gentle. Get the speed off, controlled turn in, gentle gas increasing as you open the wheel.
She's a complete pain as pax, but it's fun to get it right.
Bert
Doing it in the 110 was tricky too!
I have a remapped TDV8 and I think the problem is that because it does pick up remarkably well for such a large car that you find yourself approaching corners perhaps a bit quicker than is appropriate, especially if you drive another car regularly that doesn't mind the corners.
That's what happens to me anyway!
That's what happens to me anyway!
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