Close call prompts advanced driving interest
Discussion
I had a bit of a close call attempting what I thought was a safe over take on a big wide national speed limit road.
Dark conditions, decent size straight before a slight corner. I approached a car, must have been doing well under limit, I checked mirrors, indicator on, dropped a few gears and went to overtake. Soon as I had committed to the manoeuvre I saw headlights coming down the hill before the corner opposite direction. Foot to floor to finish my overtake. Obviously i got past but it felt dangerous, way closer than I would ever like to be. Made me feel and probably look a right t
t.
I obviously didn't take enough time to weigh up conditions etc before committing.
But I also think the car coming opposite way was bombing it, he seemed to come out of no where. And it seemed to take me longer than expected to get past the car in front, there's a chance they saw me trying to get past and speed up, or maybe I just misjudged the space required to overtake at national speed limits.
I've decided to look into some advance driving material. I just ordered a copy of police drivers handbook to get my started.
Any other suggestions / recommendations?
Dark conditions, decent size straight before a slight corner. I approached a car, must have been doing well under limit, I checked mirrors, indicator on, dropped a few gears and went to overtake. Soon as I had committed to the manoeuvre I saw headlights coming down the hill before the corner opposite direction. Foot to floor to finish my overtake. Obviously i got past but it felt dangerous, way closer than I would ever like to be. Made me feel and probably look a right t
t.I obviously didn't take enough time to weigh up conditions etc before committing.
But I also think the car coming opposite way was bombing it, he seemed to come out of no where. And it seemed to take me longer than expected to get past the car in front, there's a chance they saw me trying to get past and speed up, or maybe I just misjudged the space required to overtake at national speed limits.
I've decided to look into some advance driving material. I just ordered a copy of police drivers handbook to get my started.
Any other suggestions / recommendations?
I respect posters like this. The majority of people will come out of an experience like that and assert that what they did was entirely legitimate and blame the drivers of the oncoming car and vehicle being overtaken without looking to learn anything. Of course, if an accident happens it doesn't really matter who is legally at fault - the outcome will still be anywhere from annoying to tragic.
RegLocal's stuff is well worth watching/reading. If you are the sort of driver who "likes to get a move on" then rather than RoSPA/IAM I would suggest looking to HPC. I can't claim to be part of the "modern" HPC as my coach went his own way some time ago but although you might hear various internal arguments about the evolution of the HPC I am sure the current custodians will be excellent - and probably less keen on achieving the goal of going as fast as humanly possible on the public road without having an accident/getting caught - which is my background :-)
RegLocal's stuff is well worth watching/reading. If you are the sort of driver who "likes to get a move on" then rather than RoSPA/IAM I would suggest looking to HPC. I can't claim to be part of the "modern" HPC as my coach went his own way some time ago but although you might hear various internal arguments about the evolution of the HPC I am sure the current custodians will be excellent - and probably less keen on achieving the goal of going as fast as humanly possible on the public road without having an accident/getting caught - which is my background :-)
A laudable outcome, OP. Well done for taking a mental step back and assessing how you could improve your drive. If only everyone did that, the roads would be a fantastic place to be with far less aggression and accidents. Reg Local, who posted above, really is your man although he's too modest to promote himself loudly. In addition to his fantastic YouTube videos (which will whet your appetite), he's written two excellent books (buy both, you won't be disappointed!) and if you're anywhere in the locale he's a superb advanced driving tutor. I should know, I've been lucky enough to go out with him in the passenger (and driver's!) seat twice. Drop him a line via his site, I'm sure he'd be happy to discuss a day out with you. 
As others say, great idea to consider upgrading your skills.
On the specifics of your incident, three things particularly struck me.
Dark - makes it more difficult to judge distances etc
Hill - if the other guy was coming downhill, you were going uphill, and depending how powerful your car is that makes a really significant difference to acceleration
National speed limit - it requires a pretty long view to make a safe overtake of a car travelling anywhere near the national speed limit
On the specifics of your incident, three things particularly struck me.
Dark - makes it more difficult to judge distances etc
Hill - if the other guy was coming downhill, you were going uphill, and depending how powerful your car is that makes a really significant difference to acceleration
National speed limit - it requires a pretty long view to make a safe overtake of a car travelling anywhere near the national speed limit
waremark said:
As others say, great idea to consider upgrading your skills.
On the specifics of your incident, three things particularly struck me.
Dark - makes it more difficult to judge distances etc
Hill - if the other guy was coming downhill, you were going uphill, and depending how powerful your car is that makes a really significant difference to acceleration
National speed limit - it requires a pretty long view to make a safe overtake of a car travelling anywhere near the national speed limit
The road I was overtaking on was flat, it then goes round to the right and immediately your going up a hill.On the specifics of your incident, three things particularly struck me.
Dark - makes it more difficult to judge distances etc
Hill - if the other guy was coming downhill, you were going uphill, and depending how powerful your car is that makes a really significant difference to acceleration
National speed limit - it requires a pretty long view to make a safe overtake of a car travelling anywhere near the national speed limit
I think the biggest factor was probably the dark. I didn't know there was a car coming opposite way until I had committed.
Luckily I floored it and had enough power available to finish the manoeuvre.
I'm going to watch the recommended videos tonight to get me started, may then order the two books.
Great to hear you realise there are still things to learn.
Advanced Driving is one of the best things I have ever done. a very useful skill.
As with most clubs, it does sometimes attract certain types of people. Don't let that put you off. Just make use of them, take what lessons you want and do what you think is right.
Advanced Driving is one of the best things I have ever done. a very useful skill.
As with most clubs, it does sometimes attract certain types of people. Don't let that put you off. Just make use of them, take what lessons you want and do what you think is right.
Also consider the curve of the corner ahead, if it looks fairly open then expect someone to coming the other way pretty fast. But if there's chevrons, "slow" on the road etc then it's fair to assume that anything coming towards you will have lost quite a bit of speed for the corner and hence you'll have more time to complete the overtake should something come around.
In some instances the dark can help because if you extend your vision far enough you can pick up their headlights before you see the car
In some instances the dark can help because if you extend your vision far enough you can pick up their headlights before you see the car
IcedKiwi said:
Also consider the curve of the corner ahead, if it looks fairly open then expect someone to coming the other way pretty fast. But if there's chevrons, "slow" on the road etc then it's fair to assume that anything coming towards you will have lost quite a bit of speed for the corner and hence you'll have more time to complete the overtake should something come around.
In some instances the dark can help because if you extend your vision far enough you can pick up their headlights before you see the car
True enough, but you hit the guy who forgot to put his lights on. Or the horse. Or the pedestrians, or...In some instances the dark can help because if you extend your vision far enough you can pick up their headlights before you see the car
trickywoo said:
If you find yourself in an unplanned situation like the one you describe braking is 9 times out of 10 going to be better than staying committed to an overtake gone wrong.
People do tend to get locked in to finishing the overtake; once they've committed there's no other options available to them, you see it again and again. Yet as you say, brake and pull back in is virtually always available and faster. A form of target fixation I guess.CrutyRammers said:
People do tend to get locked in to finishing the overtake; once they've committed there's no other options available to them, you see it again and again. Yet as you say, brake and pull back in is virtually always available and faster. A form of target fixation I guess.
Suppose it's a case of retraining your brain to brake and pull back in.It was a big wide road, very open, each lane nearly as wide as 2 lanes. So there was plenty of space, it just felt dangerous. The car coming down the hill, the more i think about it, must have been bombing it. Either way I could have avoided that situation in hindsight.
CrutyRammers said:
trickywoo said:
If you find yourself in an unplanned situation like the one you describe braking is 9 times out of 10 going to be better than staying committed to an overtake gone wrong.
People do tend to get locked in to finishing the overtake; once they've committed there's no other options available to them, you see it again and again. Yet as you say, brake and pull back in is virtually always available and faster. A form of target fixation I guess.7db said:
CrutyRammers said:
trickywoo said:
If you find yourself in an unplanned situation like the one you describe braking is 9 times out of 10 going to be better than staying committed to an overtake gone wrong.
People do tend to get locked in to finishing the overtake; once they've committed there's no other options available to them, you see it again and again. Yet as you say, brake and pull back in is virtually always available and faster. A form of target fixation I guess.Worth pondering for a moment what you would do in the nightmare scenario. I'd suggest gently sideswiping the guy to your left who is travelling more or less at your speed is better than taking one head-on from the other chap. Of course, on a tree-lined road that might be very nasty for him indeed. And any houses and pedestrians are brought into play.
It's a horrible choice to have to consider, isn't it?
Worth having in the back of your mind next time you're planning an overtake. Focuses the mind on how good your planning needs to be. Declining the overtake is never a mistake.
It's a horrible choice to have to consider, isn't it?
Worth having in the back of your mind next time you're planning an overtake. Focuses the mind on how good your planning needs to be. Declining the overtake is never a mistake.
waremark said:
7db said:
CrutyRammers said:
trickywoo said:
If you find yourself in an unplanned situation like the one you describe braking is 9 times out of 10 going to be better than staying committed to an overtake gone wrong.
People do tend to get locked in to finishing the overtake; once they've committed there's no other options available to them, you see it again and again. Yet as you say, brake and pull back in is virtually always available and faster. A form of target fixation I guess.On balance its also unlikely that the car being overtaken is going to do more than lift off or brake gently. Its even more unlikely that they are going to go for a full on emergency brake at the exact time the overtaking car bails out and brakes.
You do of course need to analyse each situation but unless you have a very powerful car braking is still on balance the safest way out of an overtake.
Regarding you incident. At night no oncoming lights no vehicle there. Obviously taking into account bends and undulation hiding the oncoming traffic. The police method for an over take it mirror signal course speed gear. The overtake once identified starts from approx one car length back closed in from the safe distance of 2 lenghts. You move into the oncoming lane with no acceleration if it is still all clear acelerate through. It takes a lot of will power not to hit the throttle when moving out. The above method allows you to pull back in if a last minite hazard is spotted. Possible you comitted by acelerating on moving out ? The risk and reward is the first factor in an overtake eg what will I gain? What the road like? How long to next roundabout to turn onto new route? How mant villages etc on the route? Can I make progress?
You have done the correct thing by purchasing roadcraft. Its the bible. Try one of Jojn Lyons books. He did a Porche one a long time ago still avaliable on amazon and a more recent one by haynes publishing. Content is priobably similar possibly the newer book with a few snippets on todays driving eg lots of trafic calming etc.
Reg Locals you tybe channel looks good no doubt there similar.
Regarding instruction go for it you can only benefit. You local IAM group or private intruction. I would recomend John Lyon. i guess a lot depends on you location. Instruction will stop any misenterpretation etc.
To prepare for instructiuon. Digest the info. Try to put it into practice. A few things I would concentrate on. Dont cross your arm steering. Use all the wheel pass it through your hads to push pull. You will find to do it your speed management will change. Syncronise gears with road speed. Pick up your observation, work those eyes, to the vanishing point. Implement thje driving plan, Mirror signal etc etc. Skip the parts not required on that manouver as required. Act on roads signs. Stick to speed limits, particualy 40 or bellow, eg bulit up areas.
When you take instruction be prepared to be mental tired. The istructor will be aware of this. When I started I was exhasted.
I started with advanced driving i approx 1989 when I was about 22 years old. I stopped with istruction in about 1995 I had a few accidents and realised I did not know it all !! Paying for insttruction had to be better that fixing cars etc. Its worked and to boot made motoring more enjoyable. I went to HPC when it was in Isleworth. I had a few drives with John Lyon, fortune smiled on me and my instructor was Hugh Noblett. I did the HPC course and Silver night drive. HPC is still around but John is on his own now, with the traditional HPC couse format.
Through this forum and the WWW my intested has been roused to take the IAM tests. I have been practising what I learnt every time I drive,but it will be intesteing to see where I am .
Te odd thing about advanced driving is joe public/family/friends don't comprehend is is a system devised by the police. Most people I knew assumed when they got in a car with you that it would be flat out everywhere. Not so !!
Hope the above was of use. Go for it.
You have done the correct thing by purchasing roadcraft. Its the bible. Try one of Jojn Lyons books. He did a Porche one a long time ago still avaliable on amazon and a more recent one by haynes publishing. Content is priobably similar possibly the newer book with a few snippets on todays driving eg lots of trafic calming etc.
Reg Locals you tybe channel looks good no doubt there similar.
Regarding instruction go for it you can only benefit. You local IAM group or private intruction. I would recomend John Lyon. i guess a lot depends on you location. Instruction will stop any misenterpretation etc.
To prepare for instructiuon. Digest the info. Try to put it into practice. A few things I would concentrate on. Dont cross your arm steering. Use all the wheel pass it through your hads to push pull. You will find to do it your speed management will change. Syncronise gears with road speed. Pick up your observation, work those eyes, to the vanishing point. Implement thje driving plan, Mirror signal etc etc. Skip the parts not required on that manouver as required. Act on roads signs. Stick to speed limits, particualy 40 or bellow, eg bulit up areas.
When you take instruction be prepared to be mental tired. The istructor will be aware of this. When I started I was exhasted.
I started with advanced driving i approx 1989 when I was about 22 years old. I stopped with istruction in about 1995 I had a few accidents and realised I did not know it all !! Paying for insttruction had to be better that fixing cars etc. Its worked and to boot made motoring more enjoyable. I went to HPC when it was in Isleworth. I had a few drives with John Lyon, fortune smiled on me and my instructor was Hugh Noblett. I did the HPC course and Silver night drive. HPC is still around but John is on his own now, with the traditional HPC couse format.
Through this forum and the WWW my intested has been roused to take the IAM tests. I have been practising what I learnt every time I drive,but it will be intesteing to see where I am .
Te odd thing about advanced driving is joe public/family/friends don't comprehend is is a system devised by the police. Most people I knew assumed when they got in a car with you that it would be flat out everywhere. Not so !!
Hope the above was of use. Go for it.
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