Some advice on a overtake I carried out
Discussion
OK need some advice, had a near miss during an overtake today. Not my fault at all, it involved a fiat 500 moving across to the centre line and just abit over forcing me to brake hard and move right to the offside against the hedge in the other lane. Completely irratic behaviour and I presume it was to block the overtake.
He was following a learner and was driving close like most average cars. I've been following regs YouTube channel and watched the video on overtaking a few times and carried out all the appropriate steps. There was a large landing zone between the learner and the next two cars, about 5 cars lengths. We just come down over a hill and vision was good looking up the hill. Nothing coming and I was confident if a fast moving car or bike came I could abort or complete. I had a BMW which I overtook on a straight prior to the village, was a lovely rolling overtake, and they were keeping a distance behind me. We just hit the nsl sign when I signaled, moved onto the opposite side just after the pub/junction and accelerated. At the point I was just coming to his blind spot they started moving across and I covered the brake presuming they were going to overtake. They stayed in the position and I braked hard as I thought they still may try to come over. At this point I'm inline with his bumper. I then gave a blast the horn and I move over right to the edge and complete the overtake.
My question is should I have aborted when there was an indication of a potential overtake from them? Or was what I carried out during the overtake acceptable considering my final positioning being inline with the fiats bumper and still space, even if tight, to move past? Of course it happened quite fast and I felt that getting out of his way was the best thing to do in the split second.
I'll try and get a Google maps view link for you all: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/87+Clevedon+Rd...
Thanks for any advice
He was following a learner and was driving close like most average cars. I've been following regs YouTube channel and watched the video on overtaking a few times and carried out all the appropriate steps. There was a large landing zone between the learner and the next two cars, about 5 cars lengths. We just come down over a hill and vision was good looking up the hill. Nothing coming and I was confident if a fast moving car or bike came I could abort or complete. I had a BMW which I overtook on a straight prior to the village, was a lovely rolling overtake, and they were keeping a distance behind me. We just hit the nsl sign when I signaled, moved onto the opposite side just after the pub/junction and accelerated. At the point I was just coming to his blind spot they started moving across and I covered the brake presuming they were going to overtake. They stayed in the position and I braked hard as I thought they still may try to come over. At this point I'm inline with his bumper. I then gave a blast the horn and I move over right to the edge and complete the overtake.
My question is should I have aborted when there was an indication of a potential overtake from them? Or was what I carried out during the overtake acceptable considering my final positioning being inline with the fiats bumper and still space, even if tight, to move past? Of course it happened quite fast and I felt that getting out of his way was the best thing to do in the split second.
I'll try and get a Google maps view link for you all: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/87+Clevedon+Rd...
Thanks for any advice
I nearly stopped reading when I saw "Not my fault at all" in the first line, but decided to keep going out of curiousity.
It doesn't matter whose fault it is. People make mistakes sometimes, everyone does.
It sounds to me like the Fiat was planning exactly the same as you. They were waiting for the NSL to overtake, but they were a couple of seconds slower than you.
Moving out when you were already overtaking shows that they had crap observation - yes. But couldn't you predict that a tailgating driver would want to overtake when the speed limit went up? And a driver tailgating a learner is likely to drive without much care/attention?
And as soon as the Fiat creates such a potent hazard - you take the safest path out of it. It sounds like the safest path was behind you. Maybe you have local knowledge that there wouldn't be another overtaking opportunity and that encouraged you to push ahead regardless?
It doesn't matter whose fault it is. People make mistakes sometimes, everyone does.
It sounds to me like the Fiat was planning exactly the same as you. They were waiting for the NSL to overtake, but they were a couple of seconds slower than you.
Moving out when you were already overtaking shows that they had crap observation - yes. But couldn't you predict that a tailgating driver would want to overtake when the speed limit went up? And a driver tailgating a learner is likely to drive without much care/attention?
And as soon as the Fiat creates such a potent hazard - you take the safest path out of it. It sounds like the safest path was behind you. Maybe you have local knowledge that there wouldn't be another overtaking opportunity and that encouraged you to push ahead regardless?
Edited by R E S T E C P on Wednesday 10th August 16:36
Hard to say without a video. But I would have erred on the side of caution and aborted unless there was plenty of room.
Some people get very arsey if you try and overtake or, heaven forbid, use both lanes of a dual carriageway when they join back to one lane and it's queued up in Lane 1.
t
ts, the lot of 'em.
Some people get very arsey if you try and overtake or, heaven forbid, use both lanes of a dual carriageway when they join back to one lane and it's queued up in Lane 1.
t
ts, the lot of 'em. 5 car lengths isn't enough really unless we're talking sub-15mph.
Your use of the horn may have been appropriate but if the driver was deliberately blocking you, that's a surefire sign that the driver is a bellend so you should abort at that point and re-assess before you put yourself in a dangerous position.
Your use of the horn may have been appropriate but if the driver was deliberately blocking you, that's a surefire sign that the driver is a bellend so you should abort at that point and re-assess before you put yourself in a dangerous position.
So you were IN streaming traffic, and decided it was worth advancing just a few feet, by overtaking a handful of cars...
....there's always one isn't there!
Sounds like you were a little hasty, trying to barge through, before evaluating what was going to happen with the traffic infront of you, considering a change of speed / road layout was ahead of you.
Plus generally people DO keep a greater distance, if they find themselves behind a Learner vehicle (as they are more likely to brake more harshly, or make random changes of direction).
Fortunately no damage was done, learn from this.
....there's always one isn't there!
Sounds like you were a little hasty, trying to barge through, before evaluating what was going to happen with the traffic infront of you, considering a change of speed / road layout was ahead of you.
Plus generally people DO keep a greater distance, if they find themselves behind a Learner vehicle (as they are more likely to brake more harshly, or make random changes of direction).
Fortunately no damage was done, learn from this.
Thanks for the hasty replies all, in hindsight I should of certainly aborted. Also sorry for the poor description of the scene, I was picking up the missus and rushing to write and post it.
I can't quote effectively on my phone so I'll just do a block reply.
In response to anticipating a overtake from the fiat there was no real indicator to suggest it. They were not tailgating, just sat back in a following position, just not a 2 second gap. The positioning prior and up to the point of acceleration did not indicate any interest to overtake. The manoeuvre they carried out was a spur of the moment. They moved rapidly across to the centre line and then tried to squeeze as I was just 80% past them after my descion to continue. I pressed on with the overtake as opportunitys further on are limited and you end up getting caught up in a train of tailgaiting drivers at 40.
The landing zone was actually far greater than 5 car lengths, sorry for a poor description. It was about a 10 second gap between the learner and the 2 cars further ahead. The landing zone wasn't an issue at all, sorry if I'm giving such a vague measurement of distance.
Sorry Dan I have no idea what you are on about. There was no streaming traffic. 2 cars in the initial overtake and 2 further ahead, which I overtook on the next long straight with no problem.
I can't quote effectively on my phone so I'll just do a block reply.
In response to anticipating a overtake from the fiat there was no real indicator to suggest it. They were not tailgating, just sat back in a following position, just not a 2 second gap. The positioning prior and up to the point of acceleration did not indicate any interest to overtake. The manoeuvre they carried out was a spur of the moment. They moved rapidly across to the centre line and then tried to squeeze as I was just 80% past them after my descion to continue. I pressed on with the overtake as opportunitys further on are limited and you end up getting caught up in a train of tailgaiting drivers at 40.
The landing zone was actually far greater than 5 car lengths, sorry for a poor description. It was about a 10 second gap between the learner and the 2 cars further ahead. The landing zone wasn't an issue at all, sorry if I'm giving such a vague measurement of distance.
Sorry Dan I have no idea what you are on about. There was no streaming traffic. 2 cars in the initial overtake and 2 further ahead, which I overtook on the next long straight with no problem.
Here's a few things to bear in mind when looking to overtake in a situation like this.
If you're behind two vehicles and the frontmost vehicle is clearly slowing the second vehicle (in this case, a learner driver - they're not always slow, but other drivers assume they're slow), then there is always a possibility that the second vehicle will pull out to overtake.
Most drivers are never taught how to overtake. An overtake which may seem immediately obvious to a better (or better trained) driver will take longer to register with an average (or untrained) driver. They are also far less likely to look in their mirrors before overtaking.
This can lead to a situation where a 2 (or multiple) vehicle overtake presents itself nicely to the better driver, who is positioned well for the view and sitting ready in a flexible gear. The driver moves out, accelerates, and just as they do so, the vehicle in front realises the overtake is on and goes for it in that rash, hurried way that most people do.
If you're in this situation, try to delay your acceleration for a couple of seconds after moving offside. Move offside (don't "look with your right foot"), confirm the view, make sure the vehicle in front isn't closing or accelerating, then press the accelerator and complete the overtake. Try to make the sideways move and the acceleration two distinct phases, rather than blending them together. And if the vehicle in front gives even a suggestion that they may overtake, abort your overtake and return to the nearside.
The other possibility, of course, is an aggressive response from the vehicle in front. If you've been following them for any distance, they usually give off some subtle clues that they'll be aggressive if you overtake. The most obvious one is that they'll close right up to the slower-moving vehicle, but you might also notice a slight weaving in their lane as they concentrate more on you in their mirror than they do on the road in front. Sideways moves - particularly to the offside - for a view will usually illicit a mirrored response from a potentially aggressive overtakee.
if an overtake presents itself to you, again, move offside before accelerating. The aggressive driver will see the offside move as the start of your overtake, but if you haven't accelerated, it's easy to move back to the nearside if you receive an aggressive response, rather than finding out just as you're pulling alongside and you've nowhere left to go.
If you're behind two vehicles and the frontmost vehicle is clearly slowing the second vehicle (in this case, a learner driver - they're not always slow, but other drivers assume they're slow), then there is always a possibility that the second vehicle will pull out to overtake.
Most drivers are never taught how to overtake. An overtake which may seem immediately obvious to a better (or better trained) driver will take longer to register with an average (or untrained) driver. They are also far less likely to look in their mirrors before overtaking.
This can lead to a situation where a 2 (or multiple) vehicle overtake presents itself nicely to the better driver, who is positioned well for the view and sitting ready in a flexible gear. The driver moves out, accelerates, and just as they do so, the vehicle in front realises the overtake is on and goes for it in that rash, hurried way that most people do.
If you're in this situation, try to delay your acceleration for a couple of seconds after moving offside. Move offside (don't "look with your right foot"), confirm the view, make sure the vehicle in front isn't closing or accelerating, then press the accelerator and complete the overtake. Try to make the sideways move and the acceleration two distinct phases, rather than blending them together. And if the vehicle in front gives even a suggestion that they may overtake, abort your overtake and return to the nearside.
The other possibility, of course, is an aggressive response from the vehicle in front. If you've been following them for any distance, they usually give off some subtle clues that they'll be aggressive if you overtake. The most obvious one is that they'll close right up to the slower-moving vehicle, but you might also notice a slight weaving in their lane as they concentrate more on you in their mirror than they do on the road in front. Sideways moves - particularly to the offside - for a view will usually illicit a mirrored response from a potentially aggressive overtakee.
if an overtake presents itself to you, again, move offside before accelerating. The aggressive driver will see the offside move as the start of your overtake, but if you haven't accelerated, it's easy to move back to the nearside if you receive an aggressive response, rather than finding out just as you're pulling alongside and you've nowhere left to go.
As an adjunct to Reg's words, if the second vehicle is merely closing up to the lead in an attempt to remove the gap he thinks you're going for, then it actually makes it a little easier.
You'll still need to be aware of the second vehicle moving offside to baulk you completely, but it may help (under the right circumstances) as the follower moves towards the leader and reduces the overall distance you have to be offside...
You'll still need to be aware of the second vehicle moving offside to baulk you completely, but it may help (under the right circumstances) as the follower moves towards the leader and reduces the overall distance you have to be offside...
Great advice Reg. 
Such a mindset however is only obtained through plenty (years?) of driving experience, obviously something the OP still hasn't mastered, or needs to adjust his driving style accordingly.
To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time....
Were you responding to a medical emergency or something, hence the need to overtake every vehicle on a minor country road?
Such a mindset however is only obtained through plenty (years?) of driving experience, obviously something the OP still hasn't mastered, or needs to adjust his driving style accordingly.
To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time....
Were you responding to a medical emergency or something, hence the need to overtake every vehicle on a minor country road?
Reg Local said:
Here's a few things to bear in mind when looking to overtake in a situation like this.
If you're behind two vehicles and the frontmost vehicle is clearly slowing the second vehicle (in this case, a learner driver - they're not always slow, but other drivers assume they're slow), then there is always a possibility that the second vehicle will pull out to overtake.
Most drivers are never taught how to overtake. An overtake which may seem immediately obvious to a better (or better trained) driver will take longer to register with an average (or untrained) driver. They are also far less likely to look in their mirrors before overtaking.
This can lead to a situation where a 2 (or multiple) vehicle overtake presents itself nicely to the better driver, who is positioned well for the view and sitting ready in a flexible gear. The driver moves out, accelerates, and just as they do so, the vehicle in front realises the overtake is on and goes for it in that rash, hurried way that most people do.
If you're in this situation, try to delay your acceleration for a couple of seconds after moving offside. Move offside (don't "look with your right foot"), confirm the view, make sure the vehicle in front isn't closing or accelerating, then press the accelerator and complete the overtake. Try to make the sideways move and the acceleration two distinct phases, rather than blending them together. And if the vehicle in front gives even a suggestion that they may overtake, abort your overtake and return to the nearside.
The other possibility, of course, is an aggressive response from the vehicle in front. If you've been following them for any distance, they usually give off some subtle clues that they'll be aggressive if you overtake. The most obvious one is that they'll close right up to the slower-moving vehicle, but you might also notice a slight weaving in their lane as they concentrate more on you in their mirror than they do on the road in front. Sideways moves - particularly to the offside - for a view will usually illicit a mirrored response from a potentially aggressive overtake.
if an overtake presents itself to you, again, move offside before accelerating. The aggressive driver will see the offside move as the start of your overtake, but if you haven't accelerated, it's easy to move back to the nearside if you receive an aggressive response, rather than finding out just as you're pulling alongside and you've nowhere left to go.
Thanks for the advice Reg. Your point about waiting before accelerating past seems a bit odd to me. Surely if the driver isn't going to check their mirrors it will make little difference anyway? Effectively they could perform an overtake at any moment? My overtake was pretty much what you outlined although I had no pause once I was offside as I wanted to limit my exposure time for the overtake. I will employ that technique next time though as the section of road certainly offered me a second or two to access while on the offside. This technique would only apply to longer safer stretches of road for overtaking though?If you're behind two vehicles and the frontmost vehicle is clearly slowing the second vehicle (in this case, a learner driver - they're not always slow, but other drivers assume they're slow), then there is always a possibility that the second vehicle will pull out to overtake.
Most drivers are never taught how to overtake. An overtake which may seem immediately obvious to a better (or better trained) driver will take longer to register with an average (or untrained) driver. They are also far less likely to look in their mirrors before overtaking.
This can lead to a situation where a 2 (or multiple) vehicle overtake presents itself nicely to the better driver, who is positioned well for the view and sitting ready in a flexible gear. The driver moves out, accelerates, and just as they do so, the vehicle in front realises the overtake is on and goes for it in that rash, hurried way that most people do.
If you're in this situation, try to delay your acceleration for a couple of seconds after moving offside. Move offside (don't "look with your right foot"), confirm the view, make sure the vehicle in front isn't closing or accelerating, then press the accelerator and complete the overtake. Try to make the sideways move and the acceleration two distinct phases, rather than blending them together. And if the vehicle in front gives even a suggestion that they may overtake, abort your overtake and return to the nearside.
The other possibility, of course, is an aggressive response from the vehicle in front. If you've been following them for any distance, they usually give off some subtle clues that they'll be aggressive if you overtake. The most obvious one is that they'll close right up to the slower-moving vehicle, but you might also notice a slight weaving in their lane as they concentrate more on you in their mirror than they do on the road in front. Sideways moves - particularly to the offside - for a view will usually illicit a mirrored response from a potentially aggressive overtake.
if an overtake presents itself to you, again, move offside before accelerating. The aggressive driver will see the offside move as the start of your overtake, but if you haven't accelerated, it's easy to move back to the nearside if you receive an aggressive response, rather than finding out just as you're pulling alongside and you've nowhere left to go.
AB57 said:
Thanks for the advice Reg. Your point about waiting before accelerating past seems a bit odd to me. Surely if the driver isn't going to check their mirrors it will make little difference anyway? Effectively they could perform an overtake at any moment? My overtake was pretty much what you outlined although I had no pause once I was offside as I wanted to limit my exposure time for the overtake. I will employ that technique next time though as the section of road certainly offered me a second or two to access while on the offside. This technique would only apply to longer safer stretches of road for overtaking though?
You're not pausing to give them a chance to look in their mirrors, you're moving to a position where you can better assess what they're going to do. If the vehicle is maintaining their gap to the one in front, then maybe the overtake is on and you're already in the ideal position to quickly over take simply by pushing the accelerator pedal. If they appear to be closing in on the one in front then you can anticipate that they're planning on overtaking (potentially without a mirror check), and abort the overtake.If there's not enough clear road ahead to assess that situation and how the other driver is going to react, then there's not enough space for the overtake (even though theoretically there would be if everyone carried on as normal).
DanSI said:
Great advice Reg.
Such a mindset however is only obtained through plenty (years?) of driving experience, obviously something the OP still hasn't mastered, or needs to adjust his driving style accordingly.
To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time....
Were you responding to a medical emergency or something, hence the need to overtake every vehicle on a minor country road?
You must be trolling. Such a mindset however is only obtained through plenty (years?) of driving experience, obviously something the OP still hasn't mastered, or needs to adjust his driving style accordingly.
To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time....
Were you responding to a medical emergency or something, hence the need to overtake every vehicle on a minor country road?
AB57 said:
Surely if the driver isn't going to check their mirrors it will make little difference anyway?
As above, the Fiat was driving too close to a learner driver and the road opened up to NSL. You could anticipate that he was much more likely to overtake.Same goes for a bendy road that straightens up.
In fact, pretty much anywhere that you'd be happy to overtake, the car(s) in front could be as well.
It's part of the overtake process. You need to keep track of your position and plan of action if they move out - you eventually pass the "point of no return" where you're better off accelerating rather than braking.
AB57 said:
DanSI said:
Great advice Reg.
Such a mindset however is only obtained through plenty (years?) of driving experience, obviously something the OP still hasn't mastered, or needs to adjust his driving style accordingly.
To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time....
Were you responding to a medical emergency or something, hence the need to overtake every vehicle on a minor country road?
You must be trolling. Such a mindset however is only obtained through plenty (years?) of driving experience, obviously something the OP still hasn't mastered, or needs to adjust his driving style accordingly.
To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time....
Were you responding to a medical emergency or something, hence the need to overtake every vehicle on a minor country road?
Reg Local said:
If you're in this situation, try to delay your acceleration for a couple of seconds after moving offside. Move offside (don't "look with your right foot"), confirm the view, make sure the vehicle in front isn't closing or accelerating, then press the accelerator and complete the overtake. Try to make the sideways move and the acceleration two distinct phases, rather than blending them together. And if the vehicle in front gives even a suggestion that they may overtake, abort your overtake and return to the nearside.
Interesting advice, I will bear this in mind in future. Had an incident a couple of days ago, a small van in front of me, and a slow car in front again. Held back for a while, but the van didn't go for a couple of obvious overtaking opportunities, so at the next clear straight I pulled out to go past both. Just as I was about to draw level with the van, he started indicating and pulled across. Luckily I was quick to react so could brake in time and avoid an accident.I've always approached overtaking by hanging back until I am nearing the overtaking stretch, and then accelerating towards the car I'm overtaking before pulling out to go past (partly because I've always had lower powered cars and needed a run up). Having a more powerful car now should help, but I think by moving across first before accelerating it would give the other vehicle a second or two longer to check their mirrors.
DanSI said:
Don't like what you read? Truth hurts? I was being serious.
Shall I say it again... To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time.
The OP came on here for some advice. He wasn't aggressive or confrontational and certainly didn't come across as immature.Shall I say it again... To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time.
Stop being an arse.
DanSI said:
Don't like what you read? Truth hurts? I was being serious.
Shall I say it again... To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time.
Which part of my account on the incident reflects an aggressive adolescent? Shall I say it again... To be frank, your driving antics I'd say reflects an aggressive adolescent (boy racer). It's only a matter of time.
Thinking about it, were you the fiat driver? That's the only logical explanation for your comments I can think of.
CaptainCosworth said:
Reg Local said:
If you're in this situation, try to delay your acceleration for a couple of seconds after moving offside. Move offside (don't "look with your right foot"), confirm the view, make sure the vehicle in front isn't closing or accelerating, then press the accelerator and complete the overtake. Try to make the sideways move and the acceleration two distinct phases, rather than blending them together. And if the vehicle in front gives even a suggestion that they may overtake, abort your overtake and return to the nearside.
Interesting advice, I will bear this in mind in future. Had an incident a couple of days ago, a small van in front of me, and a slow car in front again. Held back for a while, but the van didn't go for a couple of obvious overtaking opportunities, so at the next clear straight I pulled out to go past both. Just as I was about to draw level with the van, he started indicating and pulled across. Luckily I was quick to react so could brake in time and avoid an accident.I've always approached overtaking by hanging back until I am nearing the overtaking stretch, and then accelerating towards the car I'm overtaking before pulling out to go past (partly because I've always had lower powered cars and needed a run up). Having a more powerful car now should help, but I think by moving across first before accelerating it would give the other vehicle a second or two longer to check their mirrors.
PS. Isn't a dig at you CC
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff