Roundabout Question
Discussion
Hello everyone,
I'm looking for some guidance about how to approach a roundabout I have to navigate each week. A friend of mine is an advanced driver, and suggested I post my question on here.
I've recently started a new job, and as part of my duties, I have to visit a site in Eccles, Salford. The site is just off the M60, and to get there, I have to navigate the roundabout at Junction 11. In my first month (April 2016), I was involved in an accident as I entered the roundabout, and since then have been involved in several "near misses" - each one being an almost carbon copy of the first accident. Both insurance companies agreed that the accident was the fault of the other driver, and has been recorded as 'non fault' claim on my record.
It would be very easy to continue doing what I've always done, but the number of near misses has made me wonder if there is a better way to approach this. I don't fancy having another bump on my record, even if the chances are it would go down as another non fault claim.
This is the junction in question. I need to travel from slip road (point A), to Brookhouse Avenue (point B). I think it's worth pointing out that the google maps satellite image shown is out of date - the roundabout layout has changed, and it is now light controlled.
I normally select the left hand lane on the slip road, continue onto the roundabout in the left hand lane, and then exit on to Brookhouse Avenue.
The accident I had was the result of a driver in the right hand lane of the slip road turning into me, as he attempted to exit onto the merge lane on the A57 (first exit). Since then, I've had a number of drivers do the same, forcing me to turn left.
The problem seems to be that a lot of drivers expect the traffic in the left hand lane of the slip road to exit the roundabout at the first exit, not continue straight ahead. At peak times, the A57 gets very busy, and a lot of drivers try to bypass the cars waiting to turn left onto the A57, by using the right hand lane on the slip road, and then using the short merge lane to cut into the traffic. The driver that hit me told me that as it was a 2 lane exit, all cars in the left lane of the slip road should turn left, and that he had the right of way as a user of the merge lane.
Is there a better way to approach this roundabout? I really don't want the hassle of another accident!
Thank you for your time!
I'm looking for some guidance about how to approach a roundabout I have to navigate each week. A friend of mine is an advanced driver, and suggested I post my question on here.
I've recently started a new job, and as part of my duties, I have to visit a site in Eccles, Salford. The site is just off the M60, and to get there, I have to navigate the roundabout at Junction 11. In my first month (April 2016), I was involved in an accident as I entered the roundabout, and since then have been involved in several "near misses" - each one being an almost carbon copy of the first accident. Both insurance companies agreed that the accident was the fault of the other driver, and has been recorded as 'non fault' claim on my record.
It would be very easy to continue doing what I've always done, but the number of near misses has made me wonder if there is a better way to approach this. I don't fancy having another bump on my record, even if the chances are it would go down as another non fault claim.
This is the junction in question. I need to travel from slip road (point A), to Brookhouse Avenue (point B). I think it's worth pointing out that the google maps satellite image shown is out of date - the roundabout layout has changed, and it is now light controlled.
I normally select the left hand lane on the slip road, continue onto the roundabout in the left hand lane, and then exit on to Brookhouse Avenue.
The accident I had was the result of a driver in the right hand lane of the slip road turning into me, as he attempted to exit onto the merge lane on the A57 (first exit). Since then, I've had a number of drivers do the same, forcing me to turn left.
The problem seems to be that a lot of drivers expect the traffic in the left hand lane of the slip road to exit the roundabout at the first exit, not continue straight ahead. At peak times, the A57 gets very busy, and a lot of drivers try to bypass the cars waiting to turn left onto the A57, by using the right hand lane on the slip road, and then using the short merge lane to cut into the traffic. The driver that hit me told me that as it was a 2 lane exit, all cars in the left lane of the slip road should turn left, and that he had the right of way as a user of the merge lane.
Is there a better way to approach this roundabout? I really don't want the hassle of another accident!
Thank you for your time!
Just a thought; the sat view shows different markings and if lights have now been added & the road layout has recently changed then the crash & near misses could be due to locals driving on auto pilot and doing what they have always done. There are a few similar changes near me and clear lane markings quite often get ignored.
All I can suggest is keep doing the correct approach with one eye on the offside mirror, cover the horn and keep in a gear that allows you to accelerate/back off out of trouble.
All I can suggest is keep doing the correct approach with one eye on the offside mirror, cover the horn and keep in a gear that allows you to accelerate/back off out of trouble.
Local customs often trump the "rules" of the road. Technically, you're correct to be using the left hand land for the second exit; but if in practice the local custom is to use the lane 2 on the approach for exit 2, then you should consider doing that to prevent further accidents.
But i'm not an expert.
But i'm not an expert.
I would take the right hand lane to take the second exit and move across as appropriate after the first exit purely because there are two lanes into the first exit and people are going to use them. What is or isn't correct in theory is totally irrelevant in practice if it doesn't actually happen.
Besides, far more people taking the first exit are likely to be in the left lane so if you are taking the second exit why do you want them holding you up unnecessarily?
Thank you all for taking the time to reply! There are some great suggestions
I think I will try using Lane two of the slip road the next time I'm on the roundabout, and see if that works. At busy times, the left hand lane on the roundabout is often filled with traffic queueing to enter the M60 at the third exit, but at least, even if no one allows me to change Lane, they won't be driving into me!
I've been driving for nearly twenty years - it's amazing how something like this can knock your confidence, and make you question your understanding of the rules of the road!
I think I will try using Lane two of the slip road the next time I'm on the roundabout, and see if that works. At busy times, the left hand lane on the roundabout is often filled with traffic queueing to enter the M60 at the third exit, but at least, even if no one allows me to change Lane, they won't be driving into me!
I've been driving for nearly twenty years - it's amazing how something like this can knock your confidence, and make you question your understanding of the rules of the road!
Edited by Moist_Van_Lipwig on Thursday 14th July 14:39
Moist_Van_Lipwig said:
Thank you all for taking the time to reply! There are some great suggestions
I think I will try using Lane two of the slip road the next time I'm on the roundabout, and see if that works. At busy times, the left hand lane on the roundabout is often filled with traffic queueing to enter the M60 at the third exit, but at least, even if no one allows me to change Lane, they won't be driving into me!
I've been driving for nearly twenty years - it's amazing how something like this can knock your confidence, and make you question your understanding of the rules of the road!
If using lane 2 on approach look out for someone coming out of exit 1 and going into exit 2 !!I think I will try using Lane two of the slip road the next time I'm on the roundabout, and see if that works. At busy times, the left hand lane on the roundabout is often filled with traffic queueing to enter the M60 at the third exit, but at least, even if no one allows me to change Lane, they won't be driving into me!
I've been driving for nearly twenty years - it's amazing how something like this can knock your confidence, and make you question your understanding of the rules of the road!
Thanks ROG! Luckily, there is a set of lights controlling access onto the roundabout from exit 1, so hopefully shouldn't have to contend with existing traffic, and new traffic at the same time!
I tried using Lane 2 this morning - it felt very wrong to be approaching in the wrong Lane on purpose!
I tried using Lane 2 this morning - it felt very wrong to be approaching in the wrong Lane on purpose!
Moist_Van_Lipwig said:
Thanks ROG! Luckily, there is a set of lights controlling access onto the roundabout from exit 1, so hopefully shouldn't have to contend with existing traffic, and new traffic at the same time!
I tried using Lane 2 this morning - it felt very wrong to be approaching in the wrong Lane on purpose!
My advice is stick to your usual routine and use lane 1. As someone has already said keep a watchful eye on your offside mirror, be ready to cover the horn. But, in addition, I would put a right-hand signal on immediately prior to entering the the roundabout if I thought there might be a threat from lane 2 at any time during the manoeuvre, then I would stay in lane 1 and cancel the signal as soon as I'd passed the first exit, and then give a left signal if appropriate. I tried using Lane 2 this morning - it felt very wrong to be approaching in the wrong Lane on purpose!
Advanced drivers will generally give a signal... "if in their opinion another road user would benefit from the signal". The rider to that approach to signalling is that... "the signal must not be misleading". So, my advice noted above would appear to conflict with the second rule, inasmuch it could be argued that it is misleading because I have no intention of turning right into lane 2. However, I would argue that the benefit derived from the signal by a driver to my right in lane 2 whose intention is to cut across me into exit 1 trumps the misleading message that I am signalling to move to lane 2.
There is an element of psychology involved in all of this. If you become aware at an early stage in the manoeuvre that a driver in lane 2 might have the intention of cutting across you and turning into exit 1 then by putting on a signal you will be causing doubt in his mind as to your intentions such that he thinks... "why is this idiot in lane 1 trying to move across me into my lane? Where is he going? He hasn't a clue what he's doing, I'd best give him some space, I'll give him a blast on my horn to let him know I'm here. What an idiot!" You get the picture. If you can sow this seed of doubt in his mind it should cause him to hold back on his manoeuvre of cutting across your path. What you're actually doing by putting on a right-hand signal is you're forcing the other driver to stop [not literally] and think about what he is going to do next. Which is always a good thing.
Cliftonite said:
That lane one traffic continues past the first exit is clearly indicated by the continuation of the lane separation line into the roundabout.
I wouldn't spend too much time and thought about what the lane markings "clearly indicate" because the unthinking driver who crashes into you will always have the opposite opinion... "I've driven this roundabout since these markings were first painted on the road, I've always approached in lane 2 and taken the first exit, I've never ever had a problem with this until some idiot like you cuts across in front of me. If you want exit 2 you should have been in lane 2. Idiot!" In a situation like this it's no good relying on discussions about whose "right of way" it is. You must manage the situation in such a way that your vehicle doesn't come into conflict with a vehicle coming across from lane 2. You must take control of your piece if the road. Hence my earlier posting a few minutes previously.Edited by johnao on Monday 15th August 10:17
Sorry to hear about your accident.
I would say to continue using lane 1 as you are doing. Turning left from lane 2 is quite obviously dodgy. I'd obviously be super alert though and as above, get onto the local council by phone and also e-mail something similar to your first post above.
I would say to continue using lane 1 as you are doing. Turning left from lane 2 is quite obviously dodgy. I'd obviously be super alert though and as above, get onto the local council by phone and also e-mail something similar to your first post above.
I'm ready to be shot down...
If during the peak times when you use the road—
(1) The A57 is so busy that traffic queues back towards and onto the roundabout at your first exit,
(2) almost all of the cars in lane 1 of the slip road take the A57 at your first exit (like, say, 19 out of 20), and
(3) you know this to be the case
—then would it not make sense to use lane 2 of the slip road and, after the first exit, move across into the empty lane (all of the cars form lane 1 of the slip road having gone into the first exit) on your left in order to leave the roundabout at your second exit?
If hardly any other drivers (like only 1 in 20) use lane 1 for an exit other than the first exit, then surely this approach is safer?
If during the peak times when you use the road—
(1) The A57 is so busy that traffic queues back towards and onto the roundabout at your first exit,
(2) almost all of the cars in lane 1 of the slip road take the A57 at your first exit (like, say, 19 out of 20), and
(3) you know this to be the case
—then would it not make sense to use lane 2 of the slip road and, after the first exit, move across into the empty lane (all of the cars form lane 1 of the slip road having gone into the first exit) on your left in order to leave the roundabout at your second exit?
If hardly any other drivers (like only 1 in 20) use lane 1 for an exit other than the first exit, then surely this approach is safer?
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