Exceed the speed limit? Ever?

[BrumBrumDuffy]

I’m interested in the attitude of IAM and RoSPA to exceeding the speed limit. No of course I do know that exceeding the speed limit is against the law and that if one is caught speeding then you are liable to be punished, and shouldn't complain about it.

However, although some would say that exceeding the speed limit is always dangerous, that is not my view nor is it the view of many people more experienced and qualified than I am on matters of road safety. In his excellent book, Reg Local is quite clear that although he will obey the posted litmus, that he is prepared to regard the “derestricted” sign as being just that and if safe to do so will travel faster than the current 60/70 limit.

I am inclined to agree with Reg. I think that the important part of what I have written is “if safe to do so” and so I am exploring getting further driver training to help me ascertain when it is safe. I want to have the skills to assess the situation myself.

Now a representative of the IAM has said that in they view there are no circumstances when it is safe to exceed the NSL, so I am in so doubt as to how much their training will help.

Does anyone know what the attitude of RoSPA is?

Surely the mark of a truly advanced driver should be that they are always travelling at a speed which is safe, regardless of what the arbitrary speed limit is?

[SpudLink]

I'm no expert, but the little training I have done with ROSPA (2 wheels) and IAM (2 & 4 wheels) encourage you to 'make progress' where it is suitable to do so.

[mph1977]

you also have to consider the the statements made in public have to reflect the law , the de facto attitudes within groups may vary ...

[james_gt3rs]

You'll fail the IAM test if you break the speed limit, so the observer has to teach that irrespective of their opinion.

[angoooose]

james_gt3rs said:

You'll fail the IAM test if you break the speed limit, so the observer has to teach that irrespective of their opinion.

Not quite. Any more than you'll fail the basic test for exceeding the speed limit

If you go a few MPH over the limit, realise and react, it's a minor. if you just ease your foot off the gas rather than a guilty lift, the examiner may not even notice.

If you go everywhere 10+ MPH over the limit, well that's a different matter.....

[ajcj]

Interesting one. I had some advanced training from an independent (ex Forces and Police instructor) whose advice on the subject was "accelerate until there is a reason not to".

His view was that reasons not to could include reaching the speed limit if that was something you wanted to observe as a matter of policy, but that observing a hazard ahead or reduction of clear sightlines were the best reasons.

My personal view is that the conditions, your observations of the road ahead, and your personal assessment of the risk being run at the level you are exceeding the limit all influence you in a constantly differing mix. Your attitude to the speed limit is just another factor to be aware of and factored into your decision-making.

[rainmakerraw]

My RoSPA group don't like you going even a few MPH over the limit, even in de-restricted areas. To pass the test, drive the way you're taught. Local groups vary and mine seems to very much have a 'smooth and soothing for the passenger' ethos, which is fair enough. They don't mind 'firm acceleration' - and even encourage it with capable candidates - as long as you're keeping within the limits. To be fair I play them at their own game now and just try to accelerate to cruising speed as smoothly as humanly possible. It's done wonders for my gear change! One observer told me last month that I 'keep going too slow'... until I pointed out I was comfortably above NSL. He looked at the speedo, raised an eyebrow and said he'd not noticed because I was so smooth winding up to speed.

Having developed suitable skills and in your own time? Use your own judgement/risk in accordance with the prevailing conditions. JMHO.

[WD39]

BrumBrumDuffy said:

I’m interested in the attitude of IAM and RoSPA to exceeding the speed limit. No of course I do know that exceeding the speed limit is against the law and that if one is caught speeding then you are liable to be punished, and shouldn't complain about it.

However, although some would say that exceeding the speed limit is always dangerous, that is not my view nor is it the view of many people more experienced and qualified than I am on matters of road safety. In his excellent book, Reg Local is quite clear that although he will obey the posted litmus, that he is prepared to regard the “derestricted” sign as being just that and if safe to do so will travel faster than the current 60/70 limit.

I am inclined to agree with Reg. I think that the important part of what I have written is “if safe to do so” and so I am exploring getting further driver training to help me ascertain when it is safe. I want to have the skills to assess the situation myself.

Now a representative of the IAM has said that in they view there are no circumstances when it is safe to exceed the NSL, so I am in so doubt as to how much their training will help.

Does anyone know what the attitude of RoSPA is?

Surely the mark of a truly advanced driver should be that they are always travelling at a speed which is safe, regardless of what the arbitrary speed limit is?

[WD39]

BrumBrumDuffy said:

I’m interested in the attitude of IAM and RoSPA to exceeding the speed limit. No of course I do know that exceeding the speed limit is against the law and that if one is caught speeding then you are liable to be punished, and shouldn't complain about it.

However, although some would say that exceeding the speed limit is always dangerous, that is not my view nor is it the view of many people more experienced and qualified than I am on matters of road safety. In his excellent book, Reg Local is quite clear that although he will obey the posted litmus, that he is prepared to regard the “derestricted” sign as being just that and if safe to do so will travel faster than the current 60/70 limit.

I am inclined to agree with Reg. I think that the important part of what I have written is “if safe to do so” and so I am exploring getting further driver training to help me ascertain when it is safe. I want to have the skills to assess the situation myself.

Now a representative of the IAM has said that in they view there are no circumstances when it is safe to exceed the NSL, so I am in so doubt as to how much their training will help.

Does anyone know what the attitude of RoSPA is?

Surely the mark of a truly advanced driver should be that they are always travelling at a speed which is safe, regardless of what the arbitrary speed limit is?

Yes, travelling at a speed which is safe and safe for only them. This perspective does not take into account other drivers.

This is the unpredictable factor.

Since I left my 'boy racer' days behind me and became a 'slower' driver, (not tortoise speed) and kept to the posted limits I have become a more relaxed driver and am at last enjoying it and not charging about in a thoughtless and irresponsible manner.

That is not to say that I don't exceed the limit on occasion, but it's rare and not a default position.

I hope that you get the right advice.

[Reg Local]

Road safety organisations such as Rospa and the IAM could never formally condone exceeding speed limits. Taking such a stance would be a potential PR disaster these days.

Thats not to say that individual members, observers and examiners won't have a more relaxed attitude towards progressive driving on national speed limit roads.

If you're preparing for test, take your observer's advice and if you're still unsure, ask your examiner before your test starts.

If you're just driving for yourself, be sensible, don't take any risks, always keep the safe stopping rule in the forefront of your mind and if you get caught, take it on the chin!

[Pan Pan Pan]

Provided a little lee way is given, and common sense applied to the way speed limits are enforced, they should have the `overall' desired effect on the activity the legislation has been introduced to control.
I cannot think of any other activity (but there may well be some) where a tiny (sometimes just a few millimetres) movement of ones right foot, can turn a law abiding person into someone who has broken the law.
Nor where (if the law were to be followed to the letter) superhuman levels of attention and concentration would be required of all those who drive, regardless of age, experience, driving skill, vehicle type etc, for 100% of the time. People are simply not like that (not even the Germans)

Also any legislation that does not take into account significant changes in the activity it is attempting to control is also doomed to a certain level of failure.
The advances in vehicle technology which have taken place since the current crop of speed limits were introduced, would be one such significant change.

[BrumBrumDuffy]

On thing that concerns me particularly is overtaking on a NSL road.

Say that one is behind a truck travelling at its limited speed of 56mph on the straights, and much slower around corners.

According to the man from the IAM one should wait to overtake until there is a long enough, clear straight to pass the truck at 59mph. thats is going to be a very long straight. I am going to be holding up motorists behind who are waiting for me to overtake or forcing them to overtake both me and the truck, possibly not always as sensibly as one might wish. By being an "advanced driver" I might be creating a problem for other drivers.
Plus , during that overtake I will be having to pay significant attention to my speedometer, rather than concentrating properly upon what is happening outside the car.
Surely in a common sense world it would be better to overtake this truck with a firm burst of acceleration to go past it in the shortest possible time, spending the minimum time on the opposite carriage way. (I know from his book that Reg doesn't like to refer to the "wrong" side).

If the IAM are teaching people to only overtake within the speed limits then they are helping to create the culture which results in these long processions of vehicles trundling along our roads.

[mph1977]

BrumBrumDuffy said:

On thing that concerns me particularly is overtaking on a NSL road.

Say that one is behind a truck travelling at its limited speed of 56mph on the straights, and much slower around corners.

According to the man from the IAM one should wait to overtake until there is a long enough, clear straight to pass the truck at 59mph. thats is going to be a very long straight. I am going to be holding up motorists behind who are waiting for me to overtake or forcing them to overtake both me and the truck, possibly not always as sensibly as one might wish. By being an "advanced driver" I might be creating a problem for other drivers.
Plus , during that overtake I will be having to pay significant attention to my speedometer, rather than concentrating properly upon what is happening outside the car.
Surely in a common sense world it would be better to overtake this truck with a firm burst of acceleration to go past it in the shortest possible time, spending the minimum time on the opposite carriage way. (I know from his book that Reg doesn't like to refer to the "wrong" side).

If the IAM are teaching people to only overtake within the speed limits then they are helping to create the culture which results in these long processions of vehicles trundling along our roads.

exacpt of course on an SC NSL an LGV doing 56 is speeding in all parts of the UK , by 6 mph in E+W and by 16 in most of the Scotland , not sure if NI changed the limits to 50/50/ 60 (56) like E+W

[RobM77]

mph1977 said:

BrumBrumDuffy said:

On thing that concerns me particularly is overtaking on a NSL road.

Say that one is behind a truck travelling at its limited speed of 56mph on the straights, and much slower around corners.

According to the man from the IAM one should wait to overtake until there is a long enough, clear straight to pass the truck at 59mph. thats is going to be a very long straight. I am going to be holding up motorists behind who are waiting for me to overtake or forcing them to overtake both me and the truck, possibly not always as sensibly as one might wish. By being an "advanced driver" I might be creating a problem for other drivers.
Plus , during that overtake I will be having to pay significant attention to my speedometer, rather than concentrating properly upon what is happening outside the car.
Surely in a common sense world it would be better to overtake this truck with a firm burst of acceleration to go past it in the shortest possible time, spending the minimum time on the opposite carriage way. (I know from his book that Reg doesn't like to refer to the "wrong" side).

If the IAM are teaching people to only overtake within the speed limits then they are helping to create the culture which results in these long processions of vehicles trundling along our roads.

exacpt of course on an SC NSL an LGV doing 56 is speeding in all parts of the UK , by 6 mph in E+W and by 16 in most of the Scotland , not sure if NI changed the limits to 50/50/ 60 (56) like E+W

BrumBrum's point is still valid though. An HGV on a single carriageway A or B road could be doing 50mph down the straights and 30mph round the corners, and over a distance on a twisty enough road that can be a huge amount of time added to a journey. Given that it's only safe to overtake on straights, what are we supposed to do in 50 limit and a 60 limit respectively? Personally I like to use a car's acceleration advantage over a lorry to overtake after a corner at the start of a straight (so I'll get up to 50 or 60 quickly, and he'll take much longer, by which time I've finished overtaking), but this isn't always possible.

[SpudLink]

BrumBrumDuffy said:

On thing that concerns me particularly is overtaking on a NSL road.

Say that one is behind a truck travelling at its limited speed of 56mph on the straights, and much slower around corners.

According to the man from the IAM one should wait to overtake until there is a long enough, clear straight to pass the truck at 59mph. thats is going to be a very long straight. I am going to be holding up motorists behind who are waiting for me to overtake or forcing them to overtake both me and the truck, possibly not always as sensibly as one might wish. By being an "advanced driver" I might be creating a problem for other drivers.
Plus , during that overtake I will be having to pay significant attention to my speedometer, rather than concentrating properly upon what is happening outside the car.
Surely in a common sense world it would be better to overtake this truck with a firm burst of acceleration to go past it in the shortest possible time, spending the minimum time on the opposite carriage way. (I know from his book that Reg doesn't like to refer to the "wrong" side).

If the IAM are teaching people to only overtake within the speed limits then they are helping to create the culture which results in these long processions of vehicles trundling along our roads.

I think this is a well described scenario of where exceeding the speed limit is the safer option.
(And for the sake of argument, let's assum it's a <7.5 ton removal van travelling at 56mph.)

[mph1977]

SpudLink said:

I think this is a well described scenario of where exceeding the speed limit is the safer option.
(And for the sake of argument, let's assum it's a <7.5 ton removal van travelling at 56mph.)

unless it's a car derived van it;s still speeding ...

[vonhosen]

BrumBrumDuffy said:

On thing that concerns me particularly is overtaking on a NSL road.

Say that one is behind a truck travelling at its limited speed of 56mph on the straights, and much slower around corners.

According to the man from the IAM one should wait to overtake until there is a long enough, clear straight to pass the truck at 59mph. thats is going to be a very long straight. I am going to be holding up motorists behind who are waiting for me to overtake or forcing them to overtake both me and the truck, possibly not always as sensibly as one might wish. By being an "advanced driver" I might be creating a problem for other drivers.
Plus , during that overtake I will be having to pay significant attention to my speedometer, rather than concentrating properly upon what is happening outside the car.
Surely in a common sense world it would be better to overtake this truck with a firm burst of acceleration to go past it in the shortest possible time, spending the minimum time on the opposite carriage way. (I know from his book that Reg doesn't like to refer to the "wrong" side).

If the IAM are teaching people to only overtake within the speed limits then they are helping to create the culture which results in these long processions of vehicles trundling along our roads.

If you don't think there is likely to be a safe legal overtake available for you, then you could leave a larger space between you & the lorry so that somebody else who is less concerned about sticking to the limit could use the space to overtake you prior to them overtaking the lorry. You aren't causing a procession then.

[Geekman]

mph1977 said:

unless it's a car derived van it;s still speeding ...

Whether or not the van/lorry is speeding is totally irrelevant if it's doing under the limit for the car who wishes to overtake.

[brman]

SpudLink said:

I think this is a well described scenario of where exceeding the speed limit is the safer option.
(And for the sake of argument, let's assum it's a <7.5 ton removal van travelling at 56mph.)

surely the safe option is to stay back and not overtake?
it is a limit, not a target. What reason have you for saying you need to increase your speed from the 50/56 of the lorry?

if the reasons is that "you just want to faster" or "you just want to reduce your journey time" then fair enough, you assess the risk vs benefit, but I think you on a hiding to nothing trying to get someone to officially say that is ok

[Jakdaw]

mph1977 said:

exacpt of course on an SC NSL an LGV doing 56 is speeding in all parts of the UK , by 6 mph in E+W and by 16 in most of the Scotland , not sure if NI changed the limits to 50/50/ 60 (56) like E+W

So what?

Is the IAM/RoSPA training only to give you skills of use in some fictitious world where other vehicles keep to the limits?