Driving with the Radio or C.D on.
Discussion
Just a question to fellow drivers regarding conversations in the car whilst driving or radio and cd player on.
Does it effect your concentration or not.It has effected my concentration sometimes by talking in the car to my wife or having music on.
I've had a few near misses I will admit to and I am not proud of it.
Does it effect your concentration or not.It has effected my concentration sometimes by talking in the car to my wife or having music on.
I've had a few near misses I will admit to and I am not proud of it.
any distraction will undoubtedly lower concentration...
however, it is very difficult for a driver to maintain full concentration 100% of the time even with no distractions...
therefore your safe level of driving has to be at a lower level of concentration than 100% to allow for this...
if a reduced level of concentration leaves you concerned that you might have close-misses then you need to push your ability higher, so that when it is reduced it is still sufficient...
having the radio on / others in the car shouldn't be sufficient to cause big issues, it will however reduce level of driving a little and you should change your style / approach to allow for that.
however, it is very difficult for a driver to maintain full concentration 100% of the time even with no distractions...
therefore your safe level of driving has to be at a lower level of concentration than 100% to allow for this...
if a reduced level of concentration leaves you concerned that you might have close-misses then you need to push your ability higher, so that when it is reduced it is still sufficient...
having the radio on / others in the car shouldn't be sufficient to cause big issues, it will however reduce level of driving a little and you should change your style / approach to allow for that.
Surely if you have to be concentrating so hard in order to avoid a 'more luck than judgement' moment that even the wireless will cause you grief, you shouldn't be on the road in the first place.
We're talking chess Grandmaster levels of mental exercise here. At that stage, your driving ought to be utterly, utterly flawless, not merely to the standard of a mid-test learner.
I reckon Mr Average would probably need to be at 20% full concentration to drive to the bare minimum legal standard (the aforementioned MLTJ avoidance state).
We're talking chess Grandmaster levels of mental exercise here. At that stage, your driving ought to be utterly, utterly flawless, not merely to the standard of a mid-test learner.
I reckon Mr Average would probably need to be at 20% full concentration to drive to the bare minimum legal standard (the aforementioned MLTJ avoidance state).
Multi-tasking.
It's an interesting question in the broader sense of what else people do when they're driving and how much (or little) do other tasks distract them from giving their full attention to driving.
Using the phone, smoking a fag, changing the radio channel, fiddling with a sat-nav, drinking a brew, putting on make-up, talking to passengers, ogling a pretty girl (or boy), looking for somewhere to wipe the bogey you've just pulled from your nose, opening a packet of sweets, sending a text, shouting at the kids in the back, putting on a hat, retrieving a dropped dummy...
These are just some of the things we all do, or that we see others doing on a daily basis whilst driving. Most of us - and most of them - seem to survive most journeys, so it's a fair question - what distratcts us from driving, by how much, and is driving such a difficult task that we should give 100% of our attention to it? Or is it acceptable to do other things when you're driving?
I don't believe that driving always requires 100% concentration. Rather that it requires different degrees of concentration depending on the circumstances or purpose of the journey. If you're out for a fast drive on a nice, twisty B road, it will require a higher level of concentration than if you're crawling along in city-centre traffic, for instance.
When less concentration is required for the actual driving, people will always have a tendency to want to do other things. Is this entirely wrong of them? No - of course not. Almost all cars these days are fitted with stereos, and I don't believe that listening to music, or a radio channel, or an audio book is excessively distracting in most circumstances.
Maybe contraversially, I also don't believe that holding a conversation on a mobile phone is excessively distracting either - the actions required to answer a call, or to make a call could be, but the call itself is no more distracting than talking to a passenger.
Anything which requires a driver to take their eyes off the road for more than an instant is excessively distracting. Your eyesight is the primary sense you rely on when driving, so anything which unecessarily uses your eyesight for any length of time is probably going to be too distracting.
As with anything else though, everyone is different. Some drivers can probably cope with several distractions whilst still being able to drive safely. Others probably need to avoid anything which takes their attention away from the task at hand. Unfortunately, in my experience, it's usually the latter drivers who tend to allow themselves to be distracted the most.
As a slight aside, it was intetesting to see that Lewis Hamilton asked his engineer not to talk to him "in the corners, man" at the last grand prix. Nice to see that even the best drivers have a limit!
It's an interesting question in the broader sense of what else people do when they're driving and how much (or little) do other tasks distract them from giving their full attention to driving.
Using the phone, smoking a fag, changing the radio channel, fiddling with a sat-nav, drinking a brew, putting on make-up, talking to passengers, ogling a pretty girl (or boy), looking for somewhere to wipe the bogey you've just pulled from your nose, opening a packet of sweets, sending a text, shouting at the kids in the back, putting on a hat, retrieving a dropped dummy...
These are just some of the things we all do, or that we see others doing on a daily basis whilst driving. Most of us - and most of them - seem to survive most journeys, so it's a fair question - what distratcts us from driving, by how much, and is driving such a difficult task that we should give 100% of our attention to it? Or is it acceptable to do other things when you're driving?
I don't believe that driving always requires 100% concentration. Rather that it requires different degrees of concentration depending on the circumstances or purpose of the journey. If you're out for a fast drive on a nice, twisty B road, it will require a higher level of concentration than if you're crawling along in city-centre traffic, for instance.
When less concentration is required for the actual driving, people will always have a tendency to want to do other things. Is this entirely wrong of them? No - of course not. Almost all cars these days are fitted with stereos, and I don't believe that listening to music, or a radio channel, or an audio book is excessively distracting in most circumstances.
Maybe contraversially, I also don't believe that holding a conversation on a mobile phone is excessively distracting either - the actions required to answer a call, or to make a call could be, but the call itself is no more distracting than talking to a passenger.
Anything which requires a driver to take their eyes off the road for more than an instant is excessively distracting. Your eyesight is the primary sense you rely on when driving, so anything which unecessarily uses your eyesight for any length of time is probably going to be too distracting.
As with anything else though, everyone is different. Some drivers can probably cope with several distractions whilst still being able to drive safely. Others probably need to avoid anything which takes their attention away from the task at hand. Unfortunately, in my experience, it's usually the latter drivers who tend to allow themselves to be distracted the most.
As a slight aside, it was intetesting to see that Lewis Hamilton asked his engineer not to talk to him "in the corners, man" at the last grand prix. Nice to see that even the best drivers have a limit!
I think it's a question of prioritising what's going on around you.
There are times when I will completely blank my wife if driving is consuming too much of my processing power, and that's just something she has to put up with. Likewise the children may be told to wait a minute or get a delayed request to repeat the question once the complicated junction / a
hole itching to get past / whatever has been dealt with.
I've never found the radio to be distracting but it's not interactive; mobile phones however are much more of a problem because the person at the other end has no idea of what's going on around you so will continue to demand your (my) attention regardless of what's unfolding on the road ahead or behind. I use a handsfree kit and keep the calls short & sweet.
There are times when I will completely blank my wife if driving is consuming too much of my processing power, and that's just something she has to put up with. Likewise the children may be told to wait a minute or get a delayed request to repeat the question once the complicated junction / a
hole itching to get past / whatever has been dealt with.I've never found the radio to be distracting but it's not interactive; mobile phones however are much more of a problem because the person at the other end has no idea of what's going on around you so will continue to demand your (my) attention regardless of what's unfolding on the road ahead or behind. I use a handsfree kit and keep the calls short & sweet.
I've found that the volume of the radio can affect my concentration on the road. Not just "bangin' choonz" levels of loud, but also if it's a bit too quiet.
Sounds odd, but I think it's something to do with the brain trying harder to recognise the sounds from the radio if it's quieter than I'm used to, and that detracts from my concentration slightly.
Sounds odd, but I think it's something to do with the brain trying harder to recognise the sounds from the radio if it's quieter than I'm used to, and that detracts from my concentration slightly.
I find motorways or busy town driving easiest to concentrate on.It is the conversations with my wife or taking our granddaughter in the car.I have to be carefull not to loose it.
Country roads with a sixty mile speed limit where the locals know every corner can be a pain for me to drive on.>;) There is always the tailgater who thinks you should drive to the limit speed on that type of road.
Country roads with a sixty mile speed limit where the locals know every corner can be a pain for me to drive on.>;) There is always the tailgater who thinks you should drive to the limit speed on that type of road.
Let's examine the phrase '100% concentration'. I'd argue not only that maintaining that for the duration of a journey is impossible, but that it would be dangerous to try. Concentration, by definition, is hard work; try to keep it up for too long and you'll exhaust yourself, so when a situation arises where you really do need your wits about you, you've nothing left to give.
I've played cricket for years (not to any exalted standard, I promise) and these days I open the batting. That can mean batting for a long time - the time it might take to drive 100 miles - and during that period there'll be numerous times when I need 100% focus on the ball. In between, though, I need to relax - take a few steps, chat to my partner or the fielders (all very friendly at my level) listen to the birds, watch a passing plane, anything to give my mind a little break. Then I can switch back on for the next ball.
Music or conversation in the car can serve that same purpose: not to take me away from driving altogether but to keep me just involved enough without wearing myself out. Like OldCynic, I'll defer responding to passengers if there's a situation outside that demands my full attention. Similarly, if I'm getting close to an unfamiliar destination and need to look out for landmarks and street signs, I'll turn off the music. The rest of the time it's just fine.
I've played cricket for years (not to any exalted standard, I promise) and these days I open the batting. That can mean batting for a long time - the time it might take to drive 100 miles - and during that period there'll be numerous times when I need 100% focus on the ball. In between, though, I need to relax - take a few steps, chat to my partner or the fielders (all very friendly at my level) listen to the birds, watch a passing plane, anything to give my mind a little break. Then I can switch back on for the next ball.
Music or conversation in the car can serve that same purpose: not to take me away from driving altogether but to keep me just involved enough without wearing myself out. Like OldCynic, I'll defer responding to passengers if there's a situation outside that demands my full attention. Similarly, if I'm getting close to an unfamiliar destination and need to look out for landmarks and street signs, I'll turn off the music. The rest of the time it's just fine.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Multi-tasking.
<snip>
As with anything else though, everyone is different. Some drivers can probably cope with several distractions whilst still being able to drive safely. Others probably need to avoid anything which takes their attention away from the task at hand. Unfortunately, in my experience, it's usually the latter drivers who tend to allow themselves to be distracted the most.
As a slight aside, it was intetesting to see that Lewis Hamilton asked his engineer not to talk to him "in the corners, man" at the last grand prix. Nice to see that even the best drivers have a limit!
As Reg says some drivers cope better with distractions or can be trained to cope withthe distractions - after all many Emergency vehicle drivers have to cope with 'distractions' when engaged in response drives ( and i'm not talking aobut Pursuit commentary here as that's filtering out parts of the drive commentrary to only speak the bits that are needed for the record) <snip>
As with anything else though, everyone is different. Some drivers can probably cope with several distractions whilst still being able to drive safely. Others probably need to avoid anything which takes their attention away from the task at hand. Unfortunately, in my experience, it's usually the latter drivers who tend to allow themselves to be distracted the most.
As a slight aside, it was intetesting to see that Lewis Hamilton asked his engineer not to talk to him "in the corners, man" at the last grand prix. Nice to see that even the best drivers have a limit!
Interesting point re Hamilton , i've often said it would be interesting to see what a ES assessor made of racing drivers on the road and what racing driver trainers made of ES personnel driving ...
In my experience, *what* you're listening to can have a significant effect on your driving.
I'm usually a radio 4 type but I do like a bit of noise sometimes too. A few years ago I joined a motorway roundabout while listening to Carter USM (Bloodsport for All) at full blast, cheekily nipping in front of a BMW x5. I got a head shake from the X5 driver and I'm ashamed to say I gave the finger in return.
When he turned on the flashing blue lights I realised I had made a significant error of judgment. I humbly accepted the bking of a lifetime and have been careful ever since not to let my music choices to influence my driving. It's Mantovani all the way for me now!
I'm usually a radio 4 type but I do like a bit of noise sometimes too. A few years ago I joined a motorway roundabout while listening to Carter USM (Bloodsport for All) at full blast, cheekily nipping in front of a BMW x5. I got a head shake from the X5 driver and I'm ashamed to say I gave the finger in return.
When he turned on the flashing blue lights I realised I had made a significant error of judgment. I humbly accepted the b
king of a lifetime and have been careful ever since not to let my music choices to influence my driving. It's Mantovani all the way for me now!I think you're getting hung up on the impact of conscious thought on activities that an experienced driver manages without conscious thought. A good (non-driving) example of this is walking: If you walk with someone and don't talk, your pace is much faster than when you are talking and get asked you to (say) add up a string of numbers. In many cases, people almost slow to a stop when performing the arithmetic.
Most conscious thought activities when driving reduce your capabilities to that of a learner driver. For example, on my first run after the winter break from racing, I found myself at the end of the drag strip at 160mph needing to slow the car down. Due to the time away from the car, I had to 'think' about where to place my hand to operate the lever for the chute. That one thought distracted me enough to misjudge my steering input, which destabilised the car. Highly embarrassing and potentially catastrophic, all from one 'thought'.
So I said 'hung up' in my original assessment, because I'd say you're expecting too much if you believe that all forms of distraction can be removed. And to be honest, I'd say that your conversation is more of a distraction then the radio/CD.
Most conscious thought activities when driving reduce your capabilities to that of a learner driver. For example, on my first run after the winter break from racing, I found myself at the end of the drag strip at 160mph needing to slow the car down. Due to the time away from the car, I had to 'think' about where to place my hand to operate the lever for the chute. That one thought distracted me enough to misjudge my steering input, which destabilised the car. Highly embarrassing and potentially catastrophic, all from one 'thought'.
So I said 'hung up' in my original assessment, because I'd say you're expecting too much if you believe that all forms of distraction can be removed. And to be honest, I'd say that your conversation is more of a distraction then the radio/CD.
oldcynic said:
I think it's a question of prioritising what's going on around you.
I've never found the radio to be distracting but it's not interactive; mobile phones however are much more of a problem because the person at the other end has no idea of what's going on around you so will continue to demand your (my) attention regardless of what's unfolding on the road ahead or behind. I use a handsfree kit and keep the calls short & sweet.
+1I've never found the radio to be distracting but it's not interactive; mobile phones however are much more of a problem because the person at the other end has no idea of what's going on around you so will continue to demand your (my) attention regardless of what's unfolding on the road ahead or behind. I use a handsfree kit and keep the calls short & sweet.
A passenger is able to either see whats unfolding in front, see that you are concentrating/struggling (maybe trying choosing the correct destination for example) or both of these. Person on the other end of the phone cannot do this, and therefore is likely to continue the conversation, making an already stressful situation worse.
Regarding hands free, research by the TRL has shown that hands free is 'marginally less worse'....They advocate a complete ban of hand held and hands free, after seeing their research I would have to agree. One of the studies showed a significant increase in drivers running outside of their lanes on the m/way when compared to drivers not conducting a telephone call.
The chap from TFL said, tongue in cheek, that to make things safer passengers should be banned but that's not a practical option, unless your James Bond...
Dr Murdoch said:
+1
A passenger is able to either see whats unfolding in front, see that you are concentrating/struggling (maybe trying choosing the correct destination for example) or both of these. Person on the other end of the phone cannot do this, and therefore is likely to continue the conversation, making an already stressful situation worse.
That's often suggested but I think it's a bit of a red herring. I've had plenty of occasions where passengers continue to talk to me just as someone on the end of a phone would, when it would be obvious if they looked and thought about it that I need to concentrate right now. Just because passengers could choose to shut up when I'm busy doesn't mean they will.A passenger is able to either see whats unfolding in front, see that you are concentrating/struggling (maybe trying choosing the correct destination for example) or both of these. Person on the other end of the phone cannot do this, and therefore is likely to continue the conversation, making an already stressful situation worse.
I think the difference is more to do with the proportion of communication that's non-verbal and that communicating with a disembodied, distant voice is fundamentally alien and demands an amount of conscious focus that simply isn't required to communicate in the way that's natural, that we're evolved to be able to do - with someone who is actually there.
SK425 said:
That's often suggested but I think it's a bit of a red herring. I've had plenty of occasions where passengers continue to talk to me just as someone on the end of a phone would, when it would be obvious if they looked and thought about it that I need to concentrate right now. Just because passengers could choose to shut up when I'm busy doesn't mean they will.
I think the difference is more to do with the proportion of communication that's non-verbal and that communicating with a disembodied, distant voice is fundamentally alien and demands an amount of conscious focus that simply isn't required to communicate in the way that's natural, that we're evolved to be able to do - with someone who is actually there.
I agree with the above in addition to my original point, absolutely agree that a distant voice requires more focus, which could increase distraction. I think the difference is more to do with the proportion of communication that's non-verbal and that communicating with a disembodied, distant voice is fundamentally alien and demands an amount of conscious focus that simply isn't required to communicate in the way that's natural, that we're evolved to be able to do - with someone who is actually there.
"Just because passengers could choose to shut up when I'm busy doesn't mean they will." No, but they are far more likely to than someone on the other end of a phone, as I said before, Ive formed my opinion from studies undertaken by the TRL.
Edited by Dr Murdoch on Thursday 23 April 15:42
oldcynic said:
There are times when I will completely blank my wife if driving is consuming too much of my processing power, and that's just something she has to put up with.
I do exactly the same thing and my wife hates it. I don't even notice myself doing it, I just end up concentrating fully on the busy mini-roundabout or whatever hazard has gained my full attention.https://www.sciencenews.org/article/impactful-dist...
Also within the same article is James Reasons' Swiss Cheese Model of Risk, basically the act of using a mobile phone in it's self might not cause a crash but when other things come into play i.e. the holes in the cheese line up a crash occurs.
It's worth remembering that your thoughts can be as equally distracting, you either project into the future or the past and one of the reason audio books are distracting is that the listener will build up a picture in their mind of the story.As a result detection response or scanning for hazards reduces !
Also within the same article is James Reasons' Swiss Cheese Model of Risk, basically the act of using a mobile phone in it's self might not cause a crash but when other things come into play i.e. the holes in the cheese line up a crash occurs.
It's worth remembering that your thoughts can be as equally distracting, you either project into the future or the past and one of the reason audio books are distracting is that the listener will build up a picture in their mind of the story.As a result detection response or scanning for hazards reduces !
Edited by daz6215 on Monday 18th May 18:32
Music hardly affects me. The Today Programme doesn't really either, as although I am engaged mentally with it, it is not an iterative process as it is when I speak to a passenger. Children are a big distraction, so for anything beyond, "yes, we'll stop very soon you can have a wee" (no other answer possible,even if the next stop is twenty miles away), "turn that iPad down" or "stop hitting your sister", I just ignore them.
Phone calls are a different matter. I find even a hands-free call a major distraction, so I keep them short. The old test of seeing what you remember of the last five minutes' driving is instructive; after a phone call it can be very little.
Phone calls are a different matter. I find even a hands-free call a major distraction, so I keep them short. The old test of seeing what you remember of the last five minutes' driving is instructive; after a phone call it can be very little.
I'm definetly with the camp that thinks even hands free calls are a distraction.
Out on the long overnight motorway drives that i used to do i was quite happy to have my music on reasonably loud, but the minute i was about to exit the motorway for a tacho break or to enter a town or city, i'd turn it down to a more reasonable level. Also whenever reversing in the wagon i'd switch it off for maximum concentration.
Out on the long overnight motorway drives that i used to do i was quite happy to have my music on reasonably loud, but the minute i was about to exit the motorway for a tacho break or to enter a town or city, i'd turn it down to a more reasonable level. Also whenever reversing in the wagon i'd switch it off for maximum concentration.
Zod said:
Music hardly affects me. The Today Programme doesn't really either, as although I am engaged mentally with it, it is not an iterative process as it is when I speak to a passenger. Children are a big distraction, so for anything beyond, "yes, we'll stop very soon you can have a wee" (no other answer possible,even if the next stop is twenty miles away), "turn that iPad down" or "stop hitting your sister", I just ignore them.
Phone calls are a different matter. I find even a hands-free call a major distraction, so I keep them short. The old test of seeing what you remember of the last five minutes' driving is instructive; after a phone call it can be very little.
R4 hardly impinges. R2 daytime grates - incessant wittering of DJs. R2 evenings can be great to drive to. But as soon as the going gets technical, the sound system goes off. Phone calls are a different matter. I find even a hands-free call a major distraction, so I keep them short. The old test of seeing what you remember of the last five minutes' driving is instructive; after a phone call it can be very little.
Bad combinations in my experience include: Alfasud+R Dean Taylor=official b
king; 328i+Wagner=SP50 and sarcasm; 911+Florence & The Machine=SP30. Which is about it in 30 years driving. Completely with you on the phone thing.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff