Discussion
If you can have the opportunity to drive with John do not hesitate.
Not showing off, but look at my profile...I could add that I failed the IAM test in 1965...passed the Glasgow Police safe driving course...so have had a "driving life" interest in so called 'Advanced Driving'.
I have been fortunate, as I have posted before, in having had many hours of coaching from Class 1 Traffic men in Essex - and of course the expected criticism on my RoSPA tests.
But nothing compares with the depth of learning on my two drives with John - I was advised to go to him by a Class 1 Trafpol who regarded JL as the best.
I have no connection whatsoever with John Lyon except as as a former pupil.
BOF
Not showing off, but look at my profile...I could add that I failed the IAM test in 1965...passed the Glasgow Police safe driving course...so have had a "driving life" interest in so called 'Advanced Driving'.
I have been fortunate, as I have posted before, in having had many hours of coaching from Class 1 Traffic men in Essex - and of course the expected criticism on my RoSPA tests.
But nothing compares with the depth of learning on my two drives with John - I was advised to go to him by a Class 1 Trafpol who regarded JL as the best.
I have no connection whatsoever with John Lyon except as as a former pupil.
BOF
BOF said:
If you can have the opportunity to drive with John do not hesitate.
Not showing off, but look at my profile...I could add that I failed the IAM test in 1965...passed the Glasgow Police safe driving course...so have had a "driving life" interest in so called 'Advanced Driving'.
I have been fortunate, as I have posted before, in having had many hours of coaching from Class 1 Traffic men in Essex - and of course the expected criticism on my RoSPA tests.
But nothing compares with the depth of learning on my two drives with John - I was advised to go to him by a Class 1 Trafpol who regarded JL as the best.
I have no connection whatsoever with John Lyon except as as a former pupil.
BOF
Was your time with John while he was still involved with the High Performance Club? If so, did you consider doing the full course and joining the club?Not showing off, but look at my profile...I could add that I failed the IAM test in 1965...passed the Glasgow Police safe driving course...so have had a "driving life" interest in so called 'Advanced Driving'.
I have been fortunate, as I have posted before, in having had many hours of coaching from Class 1 Traffic men in Essex - and of course the expected criticism on my RoSPA tests.
But nothing compares with the depth of learning on my two drives with John - I was advised to go to him by a Class 1 Trafpol who regarded JL as the best.
I have no connection whatsoever with John Lyon except as as a former pupil.
BOF
I did his version of the High Performance Course (he split from the more mainstream HPC sometime ago - probably best not to go there) and then joined his HP club. I try to go out with him when I can although I haven't seen him for a while now. He is one of the few who can take you to MIRA, which is quite a handy facility for limit handling training without wrecking your tyres.
You will probably see mixed reviews about him and his style. I suspect he has mellowed somewhat in his older age but I didn't initially approach him expecting to have my driving ego massaged. He can be a bit dogmatic about certain things and some of his ideas are probably getting a little out of date but overall he is an extremely skilled driver and coach with more experience than pretty much anyone else out there. If you are an advocate of the national speed limit on open roads, then don't go near him though :-)
If you mainly want limit handling training, JL is good although I would personally recommend Don Palmer who I think is better at teaching this and more flexible. His courses at Brunters will completely annihilate your tyres though!
I'm not sure how long John is planning to carry on coaching but he recently renewed his ADI so I guess he's planning on a few more years if he can manage it. It was quite amusing taking him with me on a track day once as some of the others were a bit surprised to see an old man jump out having outdriven much faster machinery!
You will probably see mixed reviews about him and his style. I suspect he has mellowed somewhat in his older age but I didn't initially approach him expecting to have my driving ego massaged. He can be a bit dogmatic about certain things and some of his ideas are probably getting a little out of date but overall he is an extremely skilled driver and coach with more experience than pretty much anyone else out there. If you are an advocate of the national speed limit on open roads, then don't go near him though :-)
If you mainly want limit handling training, JL is good although I would personally recommend Don Palmer who I think is better at teaching this and more flexible. His courses at Brunters will completely annihilate your tyres though!
I'm not sure how long John is planning to carry on coaching but he recently renewed his ADI so I guess he's planning on a few more years if he can manage it. It was quite amusing taking him with me on a track day once as some of the others were a bit surprised to see an old man jump out having outdriven much faster machinery!
waremark said:
Was your time with John while he was still involved with the High Performance Club? If so, did you consider doing the full course and joining the club?
I had never any intention of joining the HPC club...just wanted to feel the limits of my car and my capacity to enjoy handling it...still do - many years later - and passed a lot of what I learned to associates.BOF
Yes, I'll comment: go with Andy.
I've been out with both JL and Andy Morrison. I preferred Andy by miles, because he's such an outstanding instructor.
Andy will have no problem that you originally did JL's HPC. I know, because I did my High Performance Course with JL before going to Andy. I never went back to JL again.
I've been out with both JL and Andy Morrison. I preferred Andy by miles, because he's such an outstanding instructor.
Andy will have no problem that you originally did JL's HPC. I know, because I did my High Performance Course with JL before going to Andy. I never went back to JL again.
Edited by SVS on Thursday 7th November 23:38
DocSteve said:
I was considering asking Andy Morrison for a drive for comparison if he is willing - any comments?
When I said best not go there re: the current HPC I didn't mean to knock them, rather best not to ask about the details of the JL/HPC split...
I once asked HPC about it and they just said '..for reasons unconnected with JL's instructional ability'.When I said best not go there re: the current HPC I didn't mean to knock them, rather best not to ask about the details of the JL/HPC split...
Andy is one of the very best coaches I've driven with. Clearly enjoys it, and can see through your driving faults rapidly and suggest corrections -- with uncannily good results. Not annoying at all when he cracks a problem you've been puzzling over for months.
I've not driven with JL, but driven with many who have. He casts a long shadow. His drives live on in his co-drivers for years. I think that's deep-seated learning rather than emotional-scarring... ;-)
If you are serious about driver improvement, then getting coached and assessed by either and anyone else of that calibre is a real privilege.
Book early!
I've not driven with JL, but driven with many who have. He casts a long shadow. His drives live on in his co-drivers for years. I think that's deep-seated learning rather than emotional-scarring... ;-)
If you are serious about driver improvement, then getting coached and assessed by either and anyone else of that calibre is a real privilege.
Book early!
i did my IAM test in 1982, and since i've often wondered how modern socially acceptable and politically correct life sits with so-called 'high performance' training. Traditionally advanced instructors had a pretty elastic approach to speed limits on the basis that their capability allowed them to behave in such a way that it was quietly 'acceptable' if you were good enough and properly trained.I remember the suggestion that a 100mph A road limit being cited at the time as a V.N.E.
I don't know if I'd quite put myself into the 'emotionally scarred" category but I certainly didn't go on with the then HPC after my initial half-day with John in about 1993. See my post on the IAM history thread (p4) for more on this.
As an IAM bike observer I've come across Andy before in his Rapid Training role and that was some of the best training I've ever had.
I'm just starting the current HPC process in my car and am thoroughly looking forward to the whole thing.
As an IAM bike observer I've come across Andy before in his Rapid Training role and that was some of the best training I've ever had.
I'm just starting the current HPC process in my car and am thoroughly looking forward to the whole thing.
Flatinfourth said:
i did my IAM test in 1982, and since i've often wondered how modern socially acceptable and politically correct life sits with so-called 'high performance' training. Traditionally advanced instructors had a pretty elastic approach to speed limits on the basis that their capability allowed them to behave in such a way that it was quietly 'acceptable' if you were good enough and properly trained.I remember the suggestion that a 100mph A road limit being cited at the time as a V.N.E.
I was told by JL (in 2004) that he drove on single carriageway NSLs exactly the same way as in the early 60s. He tended to avoid NSL trunk roads and had a theory that there was negligible enforcement on non trunk NSLs.Flatinfourth said:
i did my IAM test in 1982, and since i've often wondered how modern socially acceptable and politically correct life sits with so-called 'high performance' training. Traditionally advanced instructors had a pretty elastic approach to speed limits on the basis that their capability allowed them to behave in such a way that it was quietly 'acceptable' if you were good enough and properly trained.I remember the suggestion that a 100mph A road limit being cited at the time as a V.N.E.
What's a V.N.E. ? A very nice experience, or environment ?Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff