Feeling the point of aero grip?
Discussion
I thought this might be under 'motorsport' thread but then I might see that it deserves to be here, unless it has been spoken upon volumes before and in that case direct me to that thread. (Too many threads on heal and toe and double clutching.)
As you are coming up with motor sport racing being use to just mechanical grip how do you get to 'grips' with aerodynamic grip? It just seems so dangerous and ghostly to transition from one to the other.
Please advise . . .
As you are coming up with motor sport racing being use to just mechanical grip how do you get to 'grips' with aerodynamic grip? It just seems so dangerous and ghostly to transition from one to the other.
Please advise . . .
No idea but I have a mate does, he's just won his second championship in a radical SR3, what are you driving? I'd imagine the best way would be either driver training or time in a decent simulator. I can pass you my friends details if you PM me as he offers both.
If not then the Radical forum in here is a pretty good place to ask, BertBert posts both here and there though and may have input, he'll be busy testing at Snet today though!
If not then the Radical forum in here is a pretty good place to ask, BertBert posts both here and there though and may have input, he'll be busy testing at Snet today though!
I've spent plenty of time on track, but never driven on slicks and wings, and to be frank most aero packages on road cars are either neutral, or in the case of something like the rear spoiler on an Audi TT, to counter rear end lift. A test driver mate of mine has always said that it takes a huge leap of faith to make the transition to cornering by downforce, as without the downforce the tyres neither generate heat, nor generate sufficient ground pressure, so not having enough wing - perhaps to generate more straight line speed- can be fatal.
Who remembers the SWB Quattro, said to be able to potentially drive on the ceiling at 120mph, such was the downforce!
Who remembers the SWB Quattro, said to be able to potentially drive on the ceiling at 120mph, such was the downforce!
No real idea either, not a racer or even an advanced track dayer, My experiences with areo grip have mostly been on track days and involuntary with a thank f
k for the big wing mumble after making it through a corner a bit faster than I felt I should after missing a braking point, was even commented on by an instructor at Silverstone when we went through abbey a tad faster than he thought we could/should.
On the road though when the aero starts to take effect my car settles down and is much more stable on the road than it is at speed sub 50mph, Below 50mph the suspension is very hard and over rated for the cars weight but with the additional loading its a much better ride, cant really say I have used the down force on the average mini roundabout though.
k for the big wing mumble after making it through a corner a bit faster than I felt I should after missing a braking point, was even commented on by an instructor at Silverstone when we went through abbey a tad faster than he thought we could/should. On the road though when the aero starts to take effect my car settles down and is much more stable on the road than it is at speed sub 50mph, Below 50mph the suspension is very hard and over rated for the cars weight but with the additional loading its a much better ride, cant really say I have used the down force on the average mini roundabout though.
Benrad said:
If not then the Radical forum in here is a pretty good place to ask, BertBert posts both here and there though and may have input, he'll be busy testing at Snet today though!
Late to this thread. Haven't got much of a clue really, which is why I've never come close to winning a championship. It's not really a conscious thing, but clearly you are mentally adding in a speed axis to how much grip there is. So you sub-consciously learn judgement of g-force against speed.You have to learn the point where you lose grip as you can never know how much more grip there is... so you have the same tell-tales... losing grip at the front or rear is obvious, you can increase your turn to see if there is more front grip available. If you are going backwards you ran out of grip and are crap at applying a dab of oppo!
So for people like me, it's a lot of practice to calibrate the corners. Perhaps for proper talent like Bradders there are more ways of working it out!
Getting it right is fantastic though and the Radical is utterly superb at it. At Snett, 2nd gear out of Nelson, no lifting through Bomb Hole and Corum and keeping it nailed until the 3rd set of posts before Murrays is for me one of the best driving experiences ever. When I get out of the Radical after a race, I always pinch myself (metaphorically) as I can't believe I just drove that fast!
Bert
I never really found it an issue to be honest; you will probably find it'll just come naturally as you learn a circuit and learn each corner and each braking point (which is worth mentioning - aero affects braking as well as cornering). All cars will have some aero effects at speed - for example the Caterham I raced briefly before going to single seaters had significant front end lift at speed, and getting used to that was simply the opposite of getting used to downforce at speed - you just adjust technique for each corner individually. Don't forget that gradients effect grip as well in non aero cars - for example turn 1 at Cadwell can be taken faster than if it was flat because of its uphill sweeping nature, and Paddock Hill bend at Brands gives lots of different effects at different points due to the changing gradients (you suddenly get loads of grip as you approach the exit curb). My only advice would be to get out there in a car and work up to it - it'll probably come quite naturally.
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